In Portugal, never take the word of Architects (or other professionals) or the Camara WITHOUT legal documentation to back it up. Everyone will always say "no problem" until the time when they have to sign a legal document and then suddenly it becomes an issue.

Don't give up on the project. Talk to your local representative, which would be the Presidente da Junta de Freguesia. Have him on your side, explain the project to him and the measures you are taking to ensure you are keeping the area safe, let them know you have a lake and a clear area for helicopters to take water from in case of a wildlifire, let them know you are cleaning the area, etc. Having the Presidente da Junta de Freguesia on your side is one step closer. Also you should ask for a meeting with the Presidente da Câmara and do a presentation of your project. In more situations than none, those project papers don't even reach the mayor's desk, it's other departments that handle it, so he may be pleased to know and understand your project. Talking and exposing your project to them IS the best way to handle it, don't go the judicial way.

Here is a great Taoist story explaining how the judgements we make as to whether something is good or bad are often only true for a fleeting moment. In the grand scheme of things there is neither good nor bad. Things just are. Once upon a time there was a Chinese farmer whose horse ran away. That evening, all of his neighbors came around to commiserate. They said, “We are so sorry to hear your horse has run away. This is most unfortunate.” The farmer said, “Maybe.” The next day the horse came back bringing seven wild horses with it, and in the evening everybody came back and said, “Oh, isn’t that lucky. What a great turn of events. You now have eight horses!” The farmer again said, “Maybe.” The following day his son tried to break one of the horses, and while riding it, he was thrown and broke his leg. The neighbors then said, “Oh dear, that’s too bad,” and the farmer responded, “Maybe.” The next day the conscription officers came around to conscript people into the army, and they rejected his son because he had a broken leg. Again all the neighbors came around and said, “Isn’t that great!” Again, he said, “Maybe.”

Being Portuguese and owning land/property in a rural area, I can say fighting a legal battle with the Municipal authority is a waste of money and - most importantly- time. Legal disputes in Portugal can take years to be resolved. My advice would be to try to work with the câmara and adapt your project to the existing law. A project that doesn’t require construction of ‘permanent’ structures has often less bureaucratic requirements and could be a solution (glamping, safari tents, Arabian tent/like structures are becoming very popular solutions).

So sorry for that... As a Portuguese I am embarrassed to see how long it took, and how deceitful the whole thing seems to have been... But hang in there, I'm quite sure you'll find ways of making it somehow, turning this into a different, but still wonderful, project! Sending strength and hope.

Welcome to Portugal, land of burocrats and lawmakers. It s easier to make a law to forbid, then to create rules to help a beautiful zone evolve.

In countries like France, Italy and Spain you had to pay the contactperson from the building permits an amount 'under the table' to get the building permit in a few months. A good architect knows how to play this game. Wish you good luck.

I am so sorry to hear this. Keep in mind that in this moment court in Portugal is 70.000 cases behind because of Covid. Its a big chaos right now.

Actually in my professional experience in Scotland with Planning Departments it is the same sort of dialogue. All pre planning applications are always "Agreed in Principle". Then when Full planning is submitted all sorts of issues arise and permission is denied. What you need is a Planning specialist. Usually these people are ex planning officers who have set up a private practice and know all the rules and how to argue your case. They are worth every penny in my experience. Maybe they have similar experts in Portugal. Good Luck!

Wow! Heartbreaking for you both. Glad you’re staying positive 👍 thank you for opening up and we’re looking forward to positive news for you both 😊

Stay positive. Beeing an eco-frindly project should be a good point for your cause.

I would NOT waste any more time, money, and energy on filing a case against the Câmara ... Either, sell your property or change your plans and embark yourselves on a different business. "What seems to us as bitter trials are often blessings in disguise". Oscar Wilde

Well, this is a bit classic for Portugal. Câmaras & government is very frustrating as the bureaucracy is not managed by people that have a reductionary perspective of why these fire have become more & more of a problem. They actually don't really want people to go live off grid. You guys are doing great! Super happy that you are sharing this information! Much Love, Karsten 🥰🙏🏼

Everything is rejected the first time. Ask you architects to schedule a meeting in the Câmara. Worked for me.

Very useful video as I was going to the same project. but after I saw your troubles I changed my mind and thanks for the social media and word of mouth that saved me and may others I am sure ❤️

Things will work out for the best stay strong and keep positive you are doing an amazing job ❤️

God you guys are so amazingly positive. We were close to doing something similar but were scared about exactly what happened to you and other things. Incredible effort abs thanks for the channel!

Good luck guys. Never lose hope!

That is a real bummer. I appreciate you guys and learning about the process. My wife and I are interested in trying something similar and it is good to know all the issues to look out for.

This is heartbreaking but I'm so pleased you are going to stick with it and keep going! You would think that the Portuguese council would want to encourage projects like yours so it's a real shame they would deny you planning permission. My partner and I bought a watermill ruin last October and will hopefully have plans drawn up and submitted by our architect by the end of the year, but it's likely it'll take so much longer. I completely understand how much you have put into your land so far (emotionally, physically and financially!) and I really hope you can get something approved in future or find a middle ground with the camara. Love how positive you both still are - keep going! Looking forward to future videos from you both.

Hi guys, I just started watching your videos and I love what you're doing with the land especially the water harvesting. Portugal desperately needs nature conscience people like you. Please don't give up on your dreams and keep looking forward while being patient. We moved to Portugal in 2003 to live a simpler life but we lost focus, grew impatient and returned to the US. Now I regret it everyday. I hope everything works out for the best and would definitely love to stay in your resort some day. p.s. Have you tried Algarve Addicts? Maybe he can recommend someone that can help.

Honestly? Don’t waste your time and money on filing a case against the Câmara. Focus your amazing energy and your other resources in selling that piece of land and finding something that fits your projects. Good luck, guys, you absolutely deserve to make your targets come true. 🙏🏻

This is devastating. I am so sorry for you both. I hope at the end something positive comes out of it!

I wish you all the best. You both are strong, got your head screwed on right and I like how authentic you share your project with us. I don't know anything about Portugal, but I would stay away from legal cases. My experience is they cost a lot of money, a lot of energy, take heaps of time and the outcome can be questionable. There's some great advice in the comments and I keep my fingers crossed for you!

Thanks for sharing this!

Sorry to hear. Keeping fingers crossed. Following several people with dream of developing their life in Portugal and i always considered you guys most professional. Hope all goes better for you.

Stay positive ❤️😊 Everything happens for a reason Things will work out for you guys ☺️

We are so sorry to hear about the refusal. You are still young and beautiful, you can do whatever you dream of doing. Wishing you lots of strength and joy while achieving those dreams!

I was heartbroken to hear this news... I was following your project with great expectation. I think we have a lot to work as a country to simply procedures and support good practices that can regenerate the land and the community. I really do believe it all comes down on education and changing the way we raise our children. I have been trying to speed good information on a similar subject (tiny houses) but there is a lot to learn even as a Portuguese about local law and how to get things done. I hope you can find a solution for your problem. Legal battle with the CM can be even more frustrating I imagina. But I just don't know what is the best way unfortunately. All the best!

All the best for the future ✨

From our experience : this is typical Portugal at the moment. We love most things here, but the bureaucracy is not one of them. A lot of rules and laws the last years, while they were more relaxed before. The last year showed it too.

So sorry to hear about the câmara rejection!!! I sure hope they change their position. Stay strong!

aarrrrrrrrrrrh. so sorry to hear that news. Lost for words !!!! Puts you off moving there.

Good luck with that! You will need it!

Bless you guys

Thats such a bummer guys. Stay positive, things will work out.

Hi there. Sorry to hear of your problems. We had allsorts of issues geting a project licence, it has been a 5 year nightmare, not unusual here unfortunately. We got there in the end and just squeaked in before the new fire laws. When we were turned down we went to the camara and I cried my eyes out, told them we could not afford to move. It seemed to affect them? We also had a very determined architect who worked with the camara lots and suggested we reaply just before xmas (and under a different name, the first was in mine - our current is in my husbands name) when everyone would be in a good mood and it worked. We also initially applied for a new build and reapplied for a rebuild, even though we knocked the ruin down and have got a new build. If you can appear to fit into just some rules it will help the camara. So maybe worth a go? If you have no luck you could rebuild the ruin (or footprint) and live on your lovely land or get a rebuild project set up to make it easier to sell? Also I know some camaras are fighting the new fire laws because they do want immigrants to move to their areas (central area), so it might change in the not too distant future. Best of luck.

Good luck guys

Hope everything works out. Be happy :)

I have been cycling past your property for many years. It used to be more tranquil with wildlife. Now not so. I wonder how people can use words such as "eco", "sustainable" or imply they're somehow working "with" nature when we all know that just about any human intervention, let alone a tourist resort, is bound to have a negative effect on the local nature. I am not blaming developers. We all need to earn a living and a small tourist resort is a perfectly valid way to do this. But I am pointing out the hypocrisy that these terms imply. I notice more agents listing properties with the suggestion that they are suitable for a certain lifestyle. This is misleading. I would advise to be more careful that the property you buy really is suitable for the business you intend to use it for. A business or simply a home: these are two very different agendas.

keep going it will work out

Thank you very much for sharing your story. I know you are both very dissapointed. I really wish you both a more successful project in the future. So the lesson I have learnt here is: Never put your money down if you cannot be 100% sure. It gets even worst when things get involved with the bureaucrat in Portugal. I never feel comfortable when putting down the money to buy property in Portugal, I'd rather rent and even pay a bit higher for better rent. I am so scrared of the portuguese process, so just rent and enjoy the food and weather, it makes less headache....

How frustrating! I hope it works out!

Welcome to Portugal there not getting another euro from me no land in Portugal for me what a load of hassle

So sorry to hear :(

Rest of infos very true and very good, pip very important!! Forza, hello from the east algarve!

Be strong. Stay positive. All will be well. The darkest hour is just before dawn. Keeping my fingers crossed for you . . . . .

The west coast and areas north / inland have a cooler vibe for a reason. Younger people seeking a more “alternative” lifestyle have been drawn to these areas for years now, initially due to the generally lower property prices / greater choice, but increasingly because nowadays there are sufficient like minded people to have created actual communities and lifestyles. I’m referring to areas such as Aljezur, Odemira or the Santa Clara reservoir area. These areas are not nearly so densely populated and the local municipalities tend to be more welcoming and flexible about ideas like yours, as they want to encourage new businesses there. These areas have beautiful landscapes which allow more freedom to expand. They have local farmers markets and there seems to be a really friendly, genuinely rural community vibe. You shouldn’t think that property prices have necessarily gone past your budget. Sure, if your access to properties is only through trawling agent’s websites then you’re bound to reach that conclusion. It’s in the agent’s interest to keep prices artificially inflated. But on the ground, talking to locals and connecting with the actual sellers directly (without intervention of agents) you will find that many people are desperate to sell. Even online you can still find land, farms and lakes in these areas for the price of an apartment in the Algarve, and that’s before you start negotiating. www.miravillage.net/imovel/quinta-com-casa-rustica-recuperada-santiago-do-cacem-1323/?rid=17869665 www.miravillage.net/imovel/quinta-com-varias-ruinas-odemira-1320/?rid=17685806 www.marcelapropriedades.com/property-for-sale/ruin-aljezur--ref_rc228/21889 www.marcelapropriedades.com/property-for-sale/ruin-monchique--ref_rc217/21736

Think of this setback as a lucky escape. The property is in an Algarve coastal municipality. This means that the planners tend to be less flexible about plans like yours as there is already so much pressure from development schemes. The area already has it’s influx of expat retirees and golfers (Morgado golf nearby) so is likely to be less amenable to your sort of venture.

From my experience with planning in the UK, it may make sense to get into the mindset of the Camara. Whilst planning looks like they have the power and u are trying to cross that line of approval, it's actually more like a dance. They are probably concerned that lives could be lost if they were to grant u permission and they are covering themselves. On the positive side it seems u can still live on your land and probably have woofers and work on infrastructure and possibly with help from the Camara's concerns help to mitigate what would happen in the event of a fire which I would say will be very likely at some point. Sorry if u have thought of all this. I just hope u have enough resources to get by until some change happens.

Sorry to hear about this, again and again here in Portugal. People sell off their land as soon as possible just to get money. Sometimes they know the right people in the right places to play along and the sellers loose. In 24 years i have heard it plenty of times. And after Covid, a lot of people are seeking land for Natural / Eco living. Foreigners have the money and locals know it. Sad.

life reimagined for real... sucks for you guys. good luck with visualising your new outcome. sometimes it can be good to see where you at and where you want to go even when you are forced.

I was born and raised in Portugal and very proud of it, but at the age of 25 I left my country and came to Canada, just because of all the Bullsh** our portuguese government put us thru. I been living here for the last 30yrs, still love Portugal but I don't even think about going back to retire. I visit every 2 or 3 years. after moving here I had to get some portuguese documents and visited our embassy in Toronto and it was run in totally and utter chaos, and that was the last experience I had with Portuguese bureaucracy. Best wishes.

Unfortunately the zoning rules have changed in almost all Portugal, due to new laws. For instance: I own a large property where before I could build (the previous PDM allowed to build villas); with the law that was approved about a couple years ago, the PDM has changed and now I can only have agriculture in it. And the Câmara Municipal is not to blame for the change, it was the change in the law that mandated to all PMD’s to comply with it...

After the recent new PDM I noticed a change in the classifications on land in my area as well. All hilltops are now red. Which in my case is strange since the tops are where there are no trees on my land. Seems more like an automated computer program attributing a classification. But whatever caused it, the classification stands. Your approach towards CMP however was wrong. Don't ever even give the impression they did something wrong, so telling them that they had to follow the legislation at time of submitting etc has turned them against you instantly. Don't go to court, you will never succeed and even if, after years of legal struggle, the judge finds in favor of you they will find another stick to best you with. But you will never get what you want. Best approach in my 3xperience is to ask for a meeting, say you are in shock and do not know what to do anymore and what advice can the Camara give to achieve the goal or what alternatives are there to start something as close as possible. Always ask for advice, never tell them you know better. Play the stupid foreigner, not the know better foreigner. In your case might I suggest to ask the câmara if it is an option to have the fire brigade do an assessment of the actual situation or what changes have to be made to make it possible for the Camara to give permission. Might be an idea to ask CCDR-Alg or Min of agriculture in Patacao (depends on the classification of the land) as well, but be careful with mentioning them. They are not always very fond of them at your local câmara. Good luck from someone who has had a plethora of start up problems in the Algarve as well.

Sorry to hear, remember it could always be worse. I hope you'll figure something out

It’s happening everywere now , I am in Spain. And they have similar restrictions . ( andulucia) but the problem in Spain and Portugal is everything is done at a snails pace ..and I have noticed how they hardly change there minds once they have made a rule .. good luck with your project. It took me over a year to rip out and remodel my place loads of paperwork etc. ..lots of hassle , but it’s done now. Also different lawyers say different things. And it cost you money if there wrong , not them. I am a elect engineer , and. Some of the stuff they came out with was ridiculous .. but I keep getting reminded it is not the uk ..

Hi, I’m a planning consultant in the Uk, so my advice would be talk to a Portuguese planning consultant before you go down the legal route. It sounds like your PIP was pretty conclusive and should carry some weight. Sometimes architects don’t understand the planning side fully. Alternatively, are there any more temporary options you could explore: yurts, cob houses or mobile homes? Good luck. Happy to discuss further if you want. Tim

Someone somewhere unfortunately is waiting for a large brown envelope...... it’s not just Portugal based... sorry to hear about your issue...

A few years ago there were some big fires in Portugal and it shacked with the politics. Which overall is good in terms of safety, unfortunately for you it just came in the wrong time. If in the future you guys decide to present the project again a small advice would be to search in the village/town, who is the arquitect or the engineer from the Camara (city hall) that works in aproving projects... usually those people also have their own business making the projects and that means that when the project goes for aprovall it will be aproved, fast and easy... You may need to spend a bit more money but the result is way better :) Hope you guys find a good solution!

Good luck beautiful people.

Wow... devastating news! Sorry to hear that. Read Sun Tzu's The Art of War. "He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight." I think going head-to-head with the Camara in a legal fight is something I would leave as a very last resort and not something to pull the trigger on right now. Take some time off. Talk to more people. Think creatively. The way forward will make itself clear in due course. If in the end it doesn't happen then it was never supposed to happen. Good luck!

That sucks guys! Stay positive, it will get better!

Will semi permanent structures like geodesic tents or glamping tent work under the guidelines? May be creating fire lines and other fire mitigation techniques help in the application. Check what is allowed under the guidelines.

This is why it's super important to hire a Portuguese attorney to help you with legalities and documentation. I bought two properties in Portugal, and I'm super pleased I had an attorney to make sure everything was in place legally before I made my purchases.

Hi guys, so sorry to hear about your situation. There must be an appeal process? Look at getting advise from a planning or building professional.

I just started to following you, I'm sorry for this outcome. Nevertheless: I'm not sure if a ecoturism resort is a good idea for the next future. The world is changing a lot... If I had the chance, I would try to create a permaculture, etc. community, off the grid and as independent as possible from the system. I think you are doing well with your mother, and I would be open for other people to join you. At any case: Good luck!

sorry to hear about that guys :( It's also possible you are just doing things the proper way...too proper. Simply put, somebody could be blocking you and is expecting of you to offer money under the table to make things happen. I have seen that happen in Croatia...

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise like someone said already below, with all the tourism business shutting down due to the lockdowns, and maybe it will take long for this to come to normal and if they will do some day, so take that in consideration and maybe try a different type of business, Good luck!

It is already difficult to find trustworthy architects and lawyers. Fighting the "Camera" in courts is maybe a bad idea. We are in a state "before" buying land and learning fast. That drives all parties involved really crazy. Estate agents are part of the problem as they advertise land with false statements or promises, just to please unrealistic sellers. Our advise is to learn as much as you can before getting serious and look for "trustworthy" lawyers and architects who are knowledgable and tell the real truth before lruing a client into chargeable (and at times hopeless) activities. Good luck to you guys! I could now write a book about this. I found a nice quote related to this kind of problems: "The Portuguese legal system has the speed of a dying snail".

Sorry that happened to you! But thank you for sharing! So we don't make the same mistake. May I ask how much the architectural plans cost (or an estimate if you don't want to share the exact amount)? And how much the submittal of the plans to the camara cost, if there is a fee? Thanks!!

Rebuild what you have and later make extensions time to time. Very common here in my country when we have camaras rules to stop new construction and the government always changes rules in the end.

Mabey with sprinkler system around the property, to keep it moist in the dry time , mabey even in the surrounding area.

I’m so sorry for you guys. Portugal is an incredible country, but it has a lot of logistic problems. The burocracy is terrible problem. I hope you follow thru your dreams.

Great Video, thanks a lot, can you share the document that you are reading? please! do you have in it the law decrees? Regards!

so very sorry for you guys..understandable this must be a heavy blow to take, hope you won't run out of money or patience while doing the waiting game, if not just enjoy life for even the simplest of living is made misarable for us worldwide...keep the spirit up

Omg thats horrible. Best of luck guys !!

Sorry to hear about your disappointment :( But as you keep your minds open perhaps some other opportunity will come out of this. All the best!

7:23 make a full video about that! I'll watch it, and many more, I guess. And of course I wouldn't recommend bribing anyone. That's wrong. Very effective, but wrong.

Do you mind me asking what price bracket your land was in and how much sq m to ended up with. Me and my wife are looking and we’re starting to think some of the cheaper bits of land are a bit too risky and maybe we should buy something with existing buildings or slightly larger ruins. On a second point would you know if you have to rebuild the actual ruin or can you rebuild a farmhouse of the same size offset from the existing structure? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. Do you feel the language barrier may have hindered your progress with the camera?

It seems that the câmara took way too much time to react to your submitted plan. Some information is missing to analyse your case properly but depending if it was a PIP or a license they had around 30 days to answer. At least to say if something was not adequate.

I was involved in a project in Portugal 20 years ago. The footprint rule was a major issue with gaining planning approval.

Sorry to hear about this. Have you guys got any updates on the situation?

So sorry to hear this. Hopefully it’s just a bump in the road and lawyers will be able to help you through this.

Hello, the ruin was ok in regards to licencing, right? So can you extend it vertically? Build a second floor, but maintaining the same perimeter measurements?

Well if you can't beat the camara(city Hall) join them.Yuo ask how!Okey let me tell you the first step!If you going to build ,you must look for the Arquitecto, who work inside the Camara.Most of this guy's,they have office out side. Good luck

Beware the sunk cost trap. Sorry to hear about what has happened to you.

do the Pip before you buy properties to rebuild or if you have plans to present in the municipal chamber

Can you fix the old house to rent .while yous plant out and develop gardens then reappply in the future

Tipical ... you have a lot of good and useful info on the comments to help out; explore all options before going to the courts ... it's life draining ... in the meantime, when confinement ends ... why don't you head north and come visit us at Quinta da Cancela in Guimarães? ... nothing better than looking at petty bureaucracy through the bottom of an empty rosé bottle :) !!! Cheers !!! Keep at it !!

get a permit for swimming pool and after that you can build but not an permanent build (like shed houses)

PART 1 of 2 Please read this to really know what lies behind everything, a hundred years ago there were no massive forest fires in Portugal and Spain, yet more people lived in the rural areas and used fire everywhere for everything... it is a long article but it is full of insight. The beggar's gaze December 9, 2015 Eucalyptus: The disappearance of the Atlantic forest. Emergency! Filed under: ecology - Beggar @ 4:01 translated from a Spanish article: "La mirada del mendigo" "Eucaliptos: La desaparición del bosque atlántico. ¡Emergencia!" Without being tedious, allow me to introduce you to the large species of the Atlantic Forest. Its base is the Quercus genus, mainly the thousand-year-old oak, a sacred tree for the Celtic peoples, under which ceremonies were officiated. In transitional areas, it alternates with other siblings and cousins: the old holm oak, the plump cork oak (the tree best adapted to Galician pyromania) and other smaller oaks: the Aleppo and the Cerquiño. In the eastern area, from a certain height, another legendary tree reigns: the beech, which, with the maple, bathes autumn with colors. In the shadiest areas a living fossil remains, from when in the Tertiary the temperature was more temperate and humid: the yew. On the riverbanks, alders, hazelnuts, poplars, and various types of willows guide the river, protecting its course. A tree that is able to withstand the terrible cold of Siberia also grows on our land: the birch. Also the Christmas holly resists the stubborn frosts and the lack of winter light, and without losing the leaf or the composure. The mythological laurel, the medicinal elderberry, hawthorn and acerola, ash and rowan, boxwood and ... These are the columns that support this temple of biodiversity, under which grow a huge variety of species of herbs, shrubs, mushrooms ... and that give shelter and sustenance to an endless relationship of animals, from bears, wolves, roe deer and wild boar to beings microscopic, but as necessary to build a complete ecosystem as the first. This is a compendium of what the native Galician, Asturleonian (in the header photo, Muniellos), Cantabrian or Basque forest offers us. The natural setting that gave rise, particularizing them, to cultures that, more than a thousand years later, have not yet consumed their fire. But all this is in danger. In fact, the further west you look, it can be said that of these native forests almost only the memory remains. Deforestation to gain farmland and pastures and, after emigration to cities, the introduction of short-cycle alien species, such as pines (native to the Mediterranean region, but here invasive) and eucalyptus, native to Oceania, are reducing the extent of our forests to annihilation. It is no exaggeration, and anyone who knows these lands knows that I am not lying: the eucalyptus trees are spreading rapidly, from the coasts they climb up the slopes and are colonizing the entire territory. The situation is extremely serious, an absolute ecological disaster. All the biodiversity that the Atlantic mixed forest contained is being replaced by eucalyptus, eucalyptus, eucalyptus, eucalyptus, eucalyptus, eucalyptus, eucalyptus ... (pine, pine, pine, pine ... in the interior). There is nothing comparable in terms of biodiversity loss on the Peninsula; no ecological disaster is so serious because of its size, intensity and irreversibility. Fighting against this systematic destruction should be priority number one, and number two, and number three of any citizen or organization that calls itself an environmentalist. (this photo is also taken in Asturias) Let me provide a few data from the latest National Forest Inventory. The measurements were taken between 1997 and 2007, they are already quite out of date, but I take the official data knowing that the situation today is worse. In this province, Pontevedra, at the time of measurement there were 7.65hm³ of eucalyptus, 11.56hm³ of conifers and 3.67hm³ of native species. In other words, the native forest already represented less than 20% of the wooded area at that time. A decade later, the figure will be even more meager. But this province is saved because they decided to include in it the Deza region, the Lalín area, which due to its cold climate resists the New Zealand invasion (not exactly from the All Blacks). The rest of the province is a sea of ​​eucalyptus dotted here and there with houses: the landscape of Galician ugliness. By the way, I'm sorry to give the figures in that rare unit, cubic hectometers of wood. I would like to give it in hectares occupied by each species but, in this latest forest inventory, they do not give that data disaggregated by species; they only distinguish between conifers and hardwoods, counting eucalyptus as one of the latter and adding it together with oak, holm oak or beech. The situation in the peninsular corner, A Coruña, is even worse. 4.01 hm³ of native species, by 17.33 hm³ of eucalyptus and 18.42 of conifers. That supposes that they had depleted the native species until reducing them to 11.2% of the forest mass! When the first Forest Inventory was carried out, back in 1975, they recorded 1.89hm³ of eucalyptus, so you can get an idea of ​​the progression it has had in those thirty years. Today? It can be said that the province of A Coruña lacks, with minor exceptions, any natural value. Even if you visit the Parque Natural das Fragas do Eume (it burned a short time ago, perhaps those of you who are not from here that will refresh your memory), you will see that most of the surface of the "Natural Park" is made up of ... eucalyptus ! The island of native vegetation is limited to the gallery forest along the river, ten meters beyond its banks, the ecological value to be zero. Yes, null, as it sounds. Pick a random place on the map of Spain that is not urbanized. A pasture in Salamanca, a Mediterranean pine forest (here yes, autochthonous), an oak grove in the Andalusian mountains, even the thyme and rockrose from a La Mancha field harbor more biodiversity than an Asturian or Galician eucalyptus. In Brazil they have a term to refer to these monocultures: or green desert. It may sound contradictory, but it is a wise paradox to refer to those lands occupied by only one species; Being foreign, and being cultivated in a monoculture regime, it does not have an associated ecosystem of its own (to understand us, they brought the eucalyptus but not the koalas). They are silent plantations, without birds that sing or rodents that move their leaves when they sneak away. Monotonous, because very few plants manage to adapt to the new soil conditions created by the eucalyptus leaf, which lowers its pH. Looking for mushrooms? You waste time, some A.muscaria and little else. Seeking contact with Nature and entering a eucalyptus forest is as absurd as wanting to go out and go into a cemetery. Reforestation with non-native species is by far the greatest threat to the Atlantic forest; much higher than the much more media fires, because a burned forest, over the years, decades, regenerates naturally (if there is not the repetition of fires that occur in the South of Galicia). But by introducing eucalyptus (or pine), they will quickly take over the roof of the forest, depriving the slower-growing native species of light and definitely preventing the regeneration of the forest. And this evil, unfortunately, is not exclusive to Galicia. The ecological state of the North of Portugal is one of absolute devastation, between fires and repopulations. Special mention should be made of the Asturian government, which promotes tourism by selling a supposed natural paradise, while legalizing the planting of other species of eucalyptus, more adapted to the cold than E globulus. The Asturian government, an example of ecocidal cynicism. Or the Cantabrians, who, by the way, already have more eucalyptus (5.85hm³) than oaks (4.72hm³). To establish a parallel of what the legalization of these crops implies (indeed, they are promoted with subsidies), imagine how absurd it would be for an administration to promote the introduction of the zebra mussel, the tiger mosquito, and the American red crab. It is not that the gray squirrel is more or less nice, because it is an adorable animal. Why then does it represent an ecological threat? Because it displaces the native species, the European red squirrel, altering the ecosystem. It is ridiculous that children are taught that releasing an exotic species in nature (turtles, parrots ...) poses a very serious threat to the natural environment ... while the administration, the main ecological criminal, promotes the introduction of invasive species until they are covered total territory as in the North. Why does the Ministry's invasive species list include mimosa, and not eucalyptus? Such discrimination has no ecological basis, but of course it is economic. The reason is to supply raw material to the processing industry, in the case of eucalyptus the pulp industry, which is the buyer of practically all of the eucalyptus wood. There is a direct, symbiotic relationship between paper mills and eucalyptus trees, if ENCE did not have its plants in Navia and Pontevedra, Galicia, Asturias and Cantabria they would not have more eucalyptus trees than any, as a natural curiosity, in a park or botanical garden. And if an ecologically responsible government prohibited forest crops of foreign species, these plants would have to close due to the shortage of their raw material.

This is what happens when foreigners come to Portugal with big ideas, as a builder since 1988 l have had many foreigners ask about things that they would know they cannot do in their own country. Within 2 days of buying that 60m2 you could have legally started work to make the place your own little palace, being foreign and hoping that architects and engineers are going to bend over for you and do their best will never happen. Your money matters more to them.

Life in the British country side is sooo beautiful, the nature in England’s country side is so Fantastic..

Really sad for you guys on this decision by the town hall. You really got caught between the inefficiency of the Portuguese public services and the constant changes to laws, two of the bigger drawbacks both to privates and companies in this country. Really hope you find your path with less resistance. Best of luck.

Hi guys , sorry to hear about the bad news . Have you tried arranging a meeting with the camara ,yourselves and your architects ?

Unfortunate reality of life in the south, greetings from Croatia where I've been fighting a similar fight for the past five years.

with this change you better check in with an insurance company because its possible that with that fire risk status they wont be giving business or home insruance without paying an arm and a leg....

Did you check if a camper or something comparable is an option for you?

PART 2 of 2 And now, having exposed the ecological problem, I explain the urgency to act that I express in the title. As I have said, after the closure of the Huelva plant, ENCE now only has two paper pulp processors: one in the Navia estuary and the other in the Pontevedra estuary. To the latter, the concession on the land it occupies expires in 2018. For decades there has been a neighborhood movement calling for the closure of that plant, but now we are reaching a critical moment, a few weeks that can alter, without a hint of exaggeration, the face of Galicia for the next few decades. It's now or never. The decision to extend the concession is, with the articles of the new Coastal Law, the exclusive prerogative of the central government (the drafting of Cañete took into account the situation of this plant). The only firm defender of the continuity of the paper mill in the estuary has historically been the PP (curious fact: who must ensure compliance with environmental legislation is, curiously, the wife of the director of the plant, take chestnut!). And seeing that the legislature is ending and that it seems impossible for it to revalidate the absolute majority, it can sign a new concession in the weeks that remain until the elections, or even with the government in office. Said concessions are made for periods of 60 or more years and, at least whoever writes this, does not expect to be in this world by the time that concession expires again. And I would like to see my Galicia catch her breath before I exhale my last breath. The alternatives are very simple. If ENCE leaves Galicia, the main buyer of Galician eucalyptus wood is withdrawn from the market. The Asturian plant would remain, in addition to the Portuguese one in Viana do Castelo, but the withdrawal of demand from the Galician plant would produce an oversupply that would lower the prices of eucalyptus wood. Eucalyptus wood is very cheap, and a good part of the cost would be carried by transport costs if it had to be taken to Portugal or Asturias. All of this would dramatically undermine the profitability of eucalyptus, seeking other alternatives for producers and, as a consequence, remitting the eucalyptization of the Galician mountain. The other alternative: if a new concession for the Pontevedra plant is approved, ENCE has assured that it intends to expand its capacity by 184,000 extra tons of paper pulp (the paper, in case you don't know, is not manufactured in Spain, we only we destroy our forests but the pasta is shipped and the process of high added value, and the profit, is carried out in civilized Europe). We would therefore be in the opposite case, a greater demand for eucalyptus wood would raise prices and introduce an incentive to further extend eucalyptus crops (with the new species more resistant to cold, colonizing the space that remains, the Asturian mountain and Cantabrian and inland Galicia). We are simply risking the lives of our forests. And that match is going to be played in the next few days, a few weeks. That is why I beg you to increase the pressure on the government as much as possible so that it does not sign this extension. Find out about the matter, write about it, spread the information among your acquaintances, whatever comes to your mind. They are also your forests, defend your right to be able to come here and enjoy them, what remains; to trust that one day your children will be able to know an Asturias, a Cantabria, a regenerated Galicia, with Nature in a better state than our parents left it to us. Or those forests could, if we fail, be irretrievably lost, subjected to the unavoidable logic of the market. That the Popular Party, or the party with which the next legislature governs, will not be free to destroy our land. Let him know that the bill will be very expensive, the discredit is tremendous; It is the only way we have to force his will. The only argument for the permanence of that plant contaminating the Pontevedra estuary (now much less, but many of us have ended up in the emergency room for eating seafood caught the day there was a spill into the estuary: heavy metal poisoning, contamination that is accumulated forever in the riverbed) is to preserve jobs. But really, what is destroying jobs is the very existence of the plant, since the presence of this plant has a huge opportunity cost both in the surroundings of the estuary and, above all, in the Galician coastal mountains. In addition to the traditional trades of fishing and shellfish, only in the tourism sector the damage caused is much greater both in economic and labor terms than what is contributed to society. Pontevedra is known by those who visit us for being a city, yes, very beautiful but… it smells like a sewer. As soon as the wind comes from the sea, which is very frequent, the image of Pontevedra is damaged by its bad smell. The landscape impact on the entire estuary is enormous, affecting neighboring towns that, after its closure, would benefit from the creation of new jobs derived from a more attractive environment (no one thinks of going on vacation to a place with these views ). (Note the "decoration" of the factory, in an attempt to dress the monkey in silk). But the main benefit of the closure of the plant is many kilometers from it, in the uninhabited villages from whose mountains the eucalyptus trees grow. The climate of these coasts is privileged to grow all kinds of crops, with much greater added value than eucalyptus. Eucalyptus is a crop for lazy people, because it is planted and you don't have to return to that plot until fifteen years later, when it is time to cut. After cutting, you do not even have to plant again because they sprout again from the foot, and wait twenty years this time, because the land is depleted and the trees grow slower and slower (sometimes arable land, fertilized and enriched for generations to be able to give tomatoes, corn, potatoes to support a family ... they are occupied and weakened in the course of a generation by a grandson without respect for his land and his past). In this way, with a cultivation that hardly requires labor, the villages are depopulated until they fall into abandonment. How different it would be if part of those lands, the best ones, were used for pastures, or the cultivation of fruit trees, vegetables or legumes! Very labor-intensive crops, but profitable because they are much more productive, which would create tens of thousands of direct jobs, plus many others in the associated food industry, setting population and generating wealth in a rural area that is now abandoned. It is the so often demanded need for a spatial planning: agricultural lands, to be worked and obtain the maximum benefit from them; we have a land and a privileged climate to feed half of Spain. And the forest land, reserved for native species. If in the former the criterion has to be the maximum benefit, in this the guideline must be the conservation of the environment and respect for biodiversity. But it is also that well-preserved native forests can provide a complementary wealth, as our European neighbors teach us. There are other countries in Europe in which the forestry sector is very important, Austria, Finland, Slovakia, Ukraine, and all of them take advantage of its wealth without having to commit the ecological crime of introducing alien species. The two main Austrian economic sectors are forestry and tourism. Proof that, by acting intelligently, you can maintain a beautiful, well-preserved environment and obtain economic returns from it. Neighboring France, a world leader in the use of biomass, because after the rural exodus it allowed the regeneration of its forests, and now they are the main source of heating in rural France, avoiding imports of hydrocarbons. There is the market for mushrooms and other forest products, and the enormous possibilities offered by ecological tourism. What visitor is going to want to visit an environment that is ugly, a horror, totally devoid of wildlife? What is the common opinion of tourists when they arrive in Galicia and those oak groves that they promised me? Where are those enchanted forests? If there is only eucalyptus! I want to be proud, and not have to be ashamed, of my land in front of strangers. And it is that the eucalyptus is an accurate indicator of economic and social underdevelopment. In Europe, the only States where its cultivation is allowed (and encouraged, and subsidized) is in Spain (ENCE) and Portugal (Celbi and Portucel), despite the fact that climatic and soil conditions even exist throughout the European Atlantic façade. more conducive. In the world, only underdeveloped countries, with civil societies subject to the dictates of power groups, destroy their ecosystems to plant non-native species: Brazil, Uruguay, Colombia, Indonesia ... There is not a single developed country that allows the outrage of destroying their forests autochthonous, displaced by an invasive species, however much it suits their industry. Civilization or barbarism. In the next few days, it will be decided which path we want to take. Taken from a document from the ENCE itself: Only in Galicia we already have more hectares (396,000) dedicated to the cultivation of eucalyptus than in Australia, its place of origin! Between Spain and Portugal, we have 59% of all the Eucalyptus globulus in the world Does this make any sense?