Another very informative video. Many thanks for all your effort that goes into them - as a relative non-expert I find them excellent at helping improve my knowledge and they always provide food for thought.

Gosh another excellent video, well thought out, presented and most articulate. Great work. Ty Gary!

Excellent video once again Gary, thank you. I watched for general interest as we fitted Enphase micro inverters to our AC coupled GivEnergy system some time ago. Feels like exactly the right decision for us and we couldn’t be happier with system performance. However, we learned very quickly in our research that “solar” isn’t a “ one size fits all” game. Thanks again 👍

Thanks Gary. You are very informative. I am just starting to learn about solar panels and hope to get an installation done soon.

I knew nothing about optimizers before this video. Thanks for an excellent and straightforward explanation!

Informative and clear. Thanks Gary!

Another superbly clear and informative video! Thank you.

Thank you, I'm looking at a string inverter plus optimisers. Very helpful.

I am so glad I read the video description after watching the video. I had a lengthy reply ready :D Thank you for correcting the errors and covering the highlights optimization and shading effects on solar modules. Although beyond the scope of your video, it is worth noting that while the strings behave as you say, once connected to an inverter, the MPPT will reduce the effects of shading. Some inverters are better than others at this. Along with optimization, module level monitoring is also an advantage of MLPE. You can see everything you discussed in real-time (or close to it). It is great for digging into the details of system operation, especially when homeowners wonder why their "system isn't working." Thanks again, and take my sub!

Thank you Gary, you cleared my doubts on using optimizer, very well explained.

Gary, many thanks for the video. It was a great summary

Thanks for your video's, Gary! Their quality is unrivaled. I love your crystal clear explanation and balanced discussion of *all* pro's and cons. I have more than a little technical knowledge, but imagine that even laymen can understand the majority of your video's. I know from personal experience that it's anything but easy to distill so much knowledge on a complex subject into short and understandable teaching. Well done! 👍 I wonder if further improvements in panels, e.g. more bypass diodes, can further reduce the already doubtful net value of optimizers and micro-inverters.

The best explanation I have seen. Thanks.

Thank you very much. Very clear and valuable.

Having installed Tifo TS4 on all my panels on a large array all I can say as I have shading the performance has been outstanding.

Excellent explanation, very simple and easy to understand

Thanks Gary, that was very helpful. We are about to commit to expanding our very early (Solartube) 4Kw system with a 5Kw on a different roof with a chimney, I was dubious as the installer quoted for Tygo optimisers. You've made my mind up to go for it.

We had a discussion with our installer about Solaredge Optimiser reliability. They were replacing 10 a year over the 20,000 panels they had deployed, so a 0.05% chance of failure per panel per year. Thought I'd mention here since the data for this doesn't seem to be overly available.

I had a solar edge optimiser fail on my 3.96kW array. Cost was £500 plus because of scaffolding requirement but the optimiser was replaced under warranty. The optimiser that failed was on the panel that produces the most! Array is now 8 years old and the other day produced the second best daily total, so panel degradation seems to be low (just after I cleaned them). Benq panels.

Thank you for your interesting presentation. I have a 14 panel system with a Solar Edge inverter and optimisers on each panel which was installed in 2017. In 2021 one of the optimisers failed but caused the entire system to shut down. The optimiser was replaced, at a considerable cost, but just over a year later another one failed, again causing the entire system to shut down. It was replaced again at a considerable cost to me. a couple of months ago a third optimiser failed but I only lost output from the associated panel, until a few days ago when the entire output was lost. The inverter is still functioning and recording a fault on one panel which would suggest that the optimiser has failed completely. Solar Edge has provided replacement optimisers under their "limited product warranty" but they have not offered to provide any support for the labour cost or scaffolding. It does suggest that the undisclosed failure rate of the optimisers is somewhat higher than the advertised reliability.

Really detailed view of all the options… I choose no optimisers based on ‘No shading’ and ‘reduced failure risk’ by not having another element on the roof. Watching UKposts solar installers doesn’t help with the potential failure rates as I’ve seen two failures, one panel and one optimiser! 😂

Thanks Gary, another clear explanation of the pro’s and con’s of the solar setup. Just a question about real-world experience of two of the potential benefits of optimisers from 9:17, dirt on the panels and panel degradation over time. I’ve had a 16 panel FIT array (2 strings) on a Growatt inverter fitted for 7+ years now. Until we had scaffolding up earlier this year to fit our newer GivEnergy arrays I had never cleaned the panels, and in theory over that duration would start to see some panel degradation, but in fact total annual output each year has been consistently around 3mW, with 2020 and 2022 both generating slight more than in 2016 and 2017. So in my experience there hasn’t been any significant dirt-related or age-related power reduction - or any reduction is masked by the annual variation in solar generation.

Great stuff👍

Meget god video. Tak fordi du laver dem

Two Solaredge optimisers have failed in 8.5 years on my 12-panel 3.2kWp system. Solaredge have provided warranty replacements but labour and access are extra. On my latest optimiser replacement the scaffolding cost £600. Despite this, Solaredge monitoring of each panel in detail and their customer service has been very good.

I have just replaced 2 optimisers that failed in the eighth year after installation. Their tech support guy said that 2 out of 13 was not bad, he had seen worse. He won't hear much from the satisfied customers with no issues. Found out that Solar Edge have a 12 year warranty on the optimiser, but only contribute to labour and scaffolding for the first five years. My installer quoted £1500 + VAT. I did the job myself after bracing my scaffold tower off the wall and using ratchet straps and wall eye bolts to keep it all steady. The tower also makes cleaning easier. I had begun to have issues with some lichen growing on the panels. Have been told thus is more common in the vicinity of silver birch trees. A large one behind us causes partial shading issues throughout the year, so I am still convinced of the benefit of optimisers for my installation.

Excellent video

My son & I have very similar solar systems installed by the same supplier. We both have JA Solar 395W panels (he has 12, I have 8) & both arrays face West. Neither of the arrays have shading issues. However I have 4 optimisers & he has none. Why the difference? Well I think we both went with what the supplier recommended. In theory, all things being equal, the ratio of my solar output to his should be 0.666 (8/12) & right now, in Summer, it is. However in the period October to January it consistently ranged from 0.71 to 0.735. It was like I had 8½ panels to his 12. I put this down to my four optimisers. That said, given solar generation in winter is pathetically low, the value of the 'extra' is worth two tenths of bugger all! Had I had my time again, I would NOT have had optimisers put in & saved a few hundred quid.

Very interesting video!

Great helpful run through with clear graphics and paced delivery. What more can I write? Thank you 👍

Gary very in formative Optimisers do also have the advantages of future proofing and system expansion with different powered modules With all the new Hybrids in the market if you don't add a battery in 2 years you won't be able to oversize unless you use SolarEdge

We replace on average about 2 x Solar Edge optimisers per year, some on our own installations, some on other peoples. We install about 50 domestic projects per year. We can't really compare this rate to either Tigo optimisers or Enphase micro-inverters as we don't install them. The good thing is that the faulty optimiser can be pinpointed so we don't have to remove half of the array to locate the problem. For the client, Solar Edge will cover the cost of labour and some of the scaffolding costs. For most replacements we can use an aluminium access tower to get up to the roof and locate the fault. The cost of this is easily covered by the Solar Edge warranty. However, the jobs that tend to require a full scaffold are where we need to span over above conservatories or where there is a pitched roof on a lower storey beneath the roof with the panels. For these replacements the client typically does end up having to cover some of the scaffold costs. The more difficult the roof is to access, the more costly it'll be to deal with faults which would need to be factored into any potential client's decision making. There is an argument to install optimisers & microinverters in the loft space beneath the panels. This would make replacement much easier and less costly. We don't do this as it would mean making a cable penetration through the roof beneath every panel. It would also means installing jumper cables between each panel and it's corresponding optimiser for both the +ve and -ve cables meaning more connections in total. Some attics are converted, so for these it's a non-starter to do this and the optimisers have to go on the roof.

Thanks for another well researched video

That's great, I'm slowly learning. Things are not at all obvious.

An informative video and one of the best overall on the subject. I wish to highlight nearly every install is different and needs assessment on its conditions. What works for me wouldn't be applicable to a house roof with no shading or chimney hard shading or when compared to a flat roof a metal 15 degree roof or situations with partial day or full ocassiibal foliage or tree shading. You do cover this but can see feom the comments many miss the fact rhat every setupnis different. New split cell technologies can help but inevitably it depend on environment. To say a microinverter system is better than a dc system hybrid inverter system compared to an optimised hybrid system simply cannot be done without looking at the enviroment for the install. The fact in respect to optimisers on UKposts using just three panels and hard shading with low cost inverters also adds to people's confusion and is inaccurate. Past references to blog posts which seem critical need to be read I detail and again highlight its dependent on enviroment and technical setup of the products, e.g moaning as some.have about Tigo without understanding anything about connectivity and management let alone how firmwares work make some of the content in these blogs redundant and the supposed expert look far from.an expert and more about content and profit. My takeaway for anyone looking at solar. 1. Nearly every setup is different take the time to understand the technology before starting if doing DIY. 2. look at your module (solar panels) installation location and see if shading exists and what type, if no shading you have no issue. After that ot comes down to how much money you wish to spend relevemt to return. 3. Concider acess and repair and the above. 4. Don't belive experts, most are not experts especaiily on UKposts this content is an exception and overall is helpful. 5 .Examine the inverter technologies, there are plus and minus benefits to both and again often depends on application. 6. An off grid system will be different to a grid tied system however some.hybrid systems allow both. 7. A Microinverter system can often be more expensive than a hybrid system and can mean dependence on one manufacturer however again depends on application and location of the systems. And.finally although I could add more, there is nothing simple about any of it and you should spend a lot of time understanding both AC and DC electronics especially if attempting any DIY project which I note is becoming .more dificult through controlling profiteering regulation worldwide and the greed of installers caused by economic preasures making the viability of getting anything that solves energy requirements let alone environmental impact considerations hugely expensive for most people. Don't get sucked into the marketing BS telling you it will reduce your bills, Do these maths! Overall as I said great content and yes some of my waffle off subject but feel people are confused and being mislead by general marketing and some experts.

One point worth noting with Solar Edge Optimisers is their ease and safety for setting up: When a panel has full sun on it, it is producing electricity, a full string produces a hell of a voltage, potentially life-threatening! This makes connecting up panels to the inverter a potentially hazardous operation. The Optimiser restricts that to 1 volt. Ten panels connected = 10 volts. If that is measured at the Inverter, you know that all panels are connected and operational. If 9 volts, then one is out Etc. When the array is either disconnected from the inverter, or the inverter is turned off, the same holds true: 1 volt per panel. This makes it a lot safer for Firemen, and for fighting the fire: Spraying water on to live power cables will not put the fire out!

* NOTES SINCE PUBLICATION * At 6:34 I over-simplified how the optimiser manages the current. In reality, the inverter first maximises the power from the panel by adjusting the voltage via MPPT, then performs a DC-DC conversion, decreasing the voltage to bring the current in line with the rest of the string. At 7:45, Actually, one or more of the bypass diodes will only kick in if there is a difference in shading across that particular panel. If there is shading across the whole of the panel (as in the diagram) the optimiser should still be able to manage that. And at 14:17 my maths is clearly rubbish - the total production with 12 x 300W panels would of course be 3.6kW, not 4.8kW!

Thank you Gary for creating this video blog and sharing it! Very helpful. I assume either SolarEdge or Tigo string inverters will work with or without optimizer. Looking at Tigo web site I got impression, I must use optimizer. Since it does not clearly say the inverter can be used with out optimizer. Also Tigo "hybrid" inverter says "can use with or without battery connected". If that is true, it can be used like "string" inverter.

Hi Gary, In your video you indicated that a optimiser bypasses 1 amp when the solar panel is giving 9 amps to give 10 amps. That 10A is then the same as for the other solar panels. The optimiser does not bypass current. Let's say that the solar panel is only producing 15v at 5 amps. 15v x 5A = 75w. What the optimiser does is it converts the 75w power into 7.5V at 10A. 7.5V x 10A = 75w. This then makes the 10A current to be the same as the other good panels. But instead of the voltage in the string being say 30v. it is now only 7.5V. When you add up the total voltage of the string. It will now be less because instead of one panel being 30v it is now only 7.5v.

I used optimizers mainly because my panels have different orientation. Otherwise I would have had to use multiple string inverters and i would have lost out one some spots where i could only fit 2 panels on that orientation. This could also have been done with microinverters. So being able to fully use all the space on the roof is a big advantage for me.

very good video, thank you

Hi Gary, and thanks for your video's. I do find them extremely informative. At 11:49 you show a screenshot that appears to come from the Solar Edge monitoring app. Would you happen to know how you get this type of layout? I have access to the same tool (supposedly....) but the layout I see is nothing like the one you show, which to me seems much more detailed. Any advice on this would be much appreciated. Thank you.

My installer specified Tigo optimisers as I'm having panels installed on 3 different roof orientations on a dual MPPT hybrid inverter. I have questioned their inclusion off the back of your helpful and informative videos but feel for the relatively small outlay, the benefits outweigh the negatives. I don't like that there's more to go wrong and there's a small power draw from them but the fact I will be able to monitor each panel from my phone, not be throttled by dirty or degraded panels and the allowance for easy integration of replacement panels are big pluses in my view.

Great video. What is the average line loss for an optimizer? You mentioned adding optimizerto an older system, as I have a 10 year old system with 46 Sunpower panels split into 7 strings between 2 inverters, the system is starting to show a several percent loss in efficiency. A couple of strings do have shade loss in the mid afternoon until shutdown of about 10 percent. The question then becomes, do I look to add optimizers, and will the increase in production then offset install costs (US labor rates) to calculate the next ROI? On a side note, to help prolong inverter life, I had my inverters placed in the basement. This has had a few benefits, the inverters run much cooler and they stay cleaner. Yes they dump a minor amount of heat into the basement, but my heat pump hotwater heater negates that issue. It also helps provide air flow and some dehumidification when the heater cycles. Lastly, I have been trying for years to find data on the "R-value" from adding panels to a roof? As my system covers 50 percent of the total roof and over 75 percent of the roof with direct sun the heat load offset is significantly increased.

Thanks!

My roof is unshaded but i do have a somewhat large antenna that create some shading on panels. Would it be worth getting optimisers for that?

It's a sobering read from Mark. Neither SolarEdge or Tigo fill me with confidence, yet it seems that on an installation with shading and/or split aspects then solar optimisers make a lot of sense. There's not a lot of choice in the market so is this Hobsons Choice? Tigo seems to be the best of them, but whatever happened to integrated solar optimisers in the panel itself aka Jinko PERC MAXIM? Great work Gary and thanks for the links to Mark's site in Australia

Excellent

Good info.

Again thanks for explaining this Gary! Our installer recommends 5 tigo optimisers (£60 each) out of the 11& a £300 tigo gateway. I don't mind but I just hope the surveyor did his calculations right & was conservative as wouldn't want anything dragging it down due to a chimney neighbours house to the east shading early morning sun. Going via big company so their tech/pre install team informed us of this which is disappointing as the surveyor mentioned nothing to us, slightly harder having a detailed convo via/email with people who aren't too sure on things. Alas they're knocking 50% off the additional cost which makes it worthwhile Do you think it would be worthwhile putting an optimiser on all of them even if not needed?

Hi Gary, another great video. Just wanted to query your sums @14:12 - 12 x 300W panels would be 3.6kW peak production, not 4.8kW :)

Gary, thanks for this really great content and clear explanation you do. As it is in my nature I double check all your claims with other sources. And I can say you highly credible solar expert. However I found some ambiguities which are more related to global markets. As an example warranty periods that solar vendors give. While Enphase gives 25years warranty for US and Canada (+ labor reimbusment), it gives only 10 years for EU. I know warranty doesn't mean failure rate, but maybe SolarEdge 12year warranty for their string invertors also reflects in minimal risk for failure. For their optimizers they offer 25years. Any thoughts?

Hi Gary, Ace vids mate, just to confirm I understand, I have a 4 kw system of 12 panels facing directly south and 4 facing north so the four will be dragging the 12 down, is that correct? OK so just viewed your micro invert vid, it confirms, thanks mate.

@GaryDoesSolar, can you help me if i have to select 600W or 450W opzimizer is enough for a system, where all opzimized panels are DAH 410W panels. Optimizer is Huawei PV 600W or as asked the same but with 450W? I'm not sure i only need to check the W rating of the solar panel, or some other detail from the datasheet? Thanks in advance for your feedback!

Why do you think both solaredge and enphase aren't used in the RV market? they seem to have the same features as the rest of themץץlike victron and such

Gary, could you please make a video on potentially damaging weather phenomena affecting solar panels, like hail and lightning?

Hi Gary, Hooking up an array of ten 400 w each panels. Going into a EG4 18k hybrid inverter. Then EG4 battery bank. Two or three panels on the east end of array will be shaded in the morning by a tree. Should I add optimizers to just those three? What would be the point in doing all ten when the seven panels are clear of shade all day? Thank you very much.

Hi Gary, nice video. I see you have a GivEnergy inverter from your video. Do you actually see your bypass diodes cutting in ? I never see the GivEnergy inverter giving up voltage to maintain the current. So my string collapses with small amounts of hard shading. ( No optimisers)

As you know I had an optimiser fail on me (in November thankfully), two years into my production. So far this summer there’s been no more failures, and it’s generated 57kWh on the best day. For my site, I have to contend with a chimney that always shades at least one panel until lunchtime, progressive shading from 5pm onwards April to August, and lots of hard partial shading in the autumn and winter. So I think optimisers are worth it. But if I had a site with no shading issues, I would do without the optimisers and just use a thermal camera to carry out periodic inspections. They add cost, complexity and therefore more points of failure. The safety aspect of rapid shutdown whilst noteworthy, can also be done on a string inverter. Once a string is isolated, while there is still voltage, there cannot be current without a closed loop. Most PV strings are floating voltage without an earth reference (except maybe on the inverter on the other side of the double pole isolator), so if a fireman were to be exposed to a live conductor, current couldn’t flow anyway if the isolator is open.

For the example of string inverter and optimisers would not a failure of one optimiser impact all solar panels as you don’t know how it will fail. It can fail safe, impact only one panel. Or can fail unsafe and impact all the panels

I have 2 arrays, (both ground mount) and heavily shaded for the morning and late afternoon. I wonder if I can "try before I buy" option..?

I have Enlighten micro inverters on 2 strings of three panels. Unfortunately the Enphase collector/gateway seems to have failed -just flashes ref lights - support said its out of warranty. New ones are £600! Only benefit of replacing is to be able to 'actively manage and monitor' the panels. I'm struggling to see the cba of replacement. Thoughts? Have I missed something?

Thanks

At last a solar presentation not full of excitable hype and blah-blah. Consider yourself subscribed. An optimiser failure on our 2015 4kw solaredge system bought me here so just another single point of data from someone who is absolutely not a techno-pup. The solar edge app has allowed easy identification of the failed unit and access via scaffolding tower from our excellent local installer was only thwarted by high winds. My non technical mind has been swayed by tge advantages optimisers may give as dirt accumulates on some panels. Particularly as we are in a very coastal location and salt accumulation is anecdotally claimed by those of an agricultural persuasion to be as high as one ton per year per acre. Perhaps coastal installations is the subject of a whole new video. Certainly the luminosity of lighf reflected off the water is a plus. Anyway keep up the good work Gary! PS Dang! And then the Immersun unit failed this week - replacement by an Eddi has blown a gaping hole in this year's payback caculations. That and Good Energy going ,via smart meter info, to paying foe exports on actuals rather than a caculated 50% of output. Sorry to rant on but.....pfftt!!!😮😢

Gary, I know my first two panels in the array are shaded in the morning. By running all of the panels in parallel I can separate those two from dragging down the other eight units. No optimizers.

OT: Has anyone developed a mounting system for PV panels where they're attached to the railings on one side with hinging pieces and on the other with a latch release? This would allow a technician to unlatch the panels and swing them out of the way which would be ideal to access a problem in the middle of a panel array instead of removing several panels to gain access.

Anyone have any input on using Tigo Optimizers for a Motorhome Rooftop Solar Array? Would be 12 200W panels which would be in varying mounting directions do to space limitations on the roof. Installer is recommending them.

Is possible to use it as DC-DC converter between Battery and Microinwerter for night feeding?

I have four 330 watt panels that I use to charge an Ecoflow power station. The panels are wired in 2S2P. The other day one panel suddenly stopped working and I lost 50% performance. The panel that it was in parallel still shows amps using my amp clamp and the suspect panel shows zero amps. I tried the panel in a series string of three and I get zero amps. If I take the plus and minus of the bad panel and connect them together I get 9 amps the panel is rated for. I'm thinking bad bypass diodes. What do you think. I have ruled out connectors.

3-Phase connection -> 3 single phase string inverters instead of one 3-phase one. Disadvantages: slightly messier cabling, bulkier, slightly higher cost than a single 3-phase inverter Advantages: cheaper than micro-inverters or optimisers, soft shading on one panel only affects one of three strings, any failure within a string (incl. inverter) still only results in a loss of 33% production, overvoltage protection kicking in on one phase doesn't affect production on the other two, nothing but panels and cables on the roof. It's like having 3 huge panels with micro-inverters that are easily accessible.

Can you please create video on "how to add more panels" if already installed are not enough. After I bought electric car, now my consumption is gone up. This is reason need to add another 5 kW system. I do not want to "replace" existing inverter already installed 16 panels. Because I may loose warranty on it.

Bonsoir que pensez-vous des optimiseur Tigo car je voulez installer cela suite à des ombrages sur différents panneaux

This sounds silly to ask, but would optimisers help if panels are mounted flat on a flat garage roof?

My con on micro inverters is that now you have ac and what people really want is dc going into storage for backup power. Selling to the grid isn't really that interesting.

thanks. however, you did not cover the fact that optimizers allow you to put panels on different slopes and azimuths, and have them still connected to that same MPPT of your string or hybrid inverter. for me that is probably the biggest benefit of them, and I'm going to install Deye optmizers soon when they arrive, together with adding more panels to additional roof slopes that were panel-free before.

Good explanation, but you didn't talk about cost difference. Example..I have a 24KW Solar system with 60 panels at 450W. I can get my three 8.2KW Fronius Primo String Inverters for around $7,500,- while the 450W enphase micro inverter would cost about $14,700,-. That's close to double the cost. There are a lot of plus and minuses on both sides when it comes to String Inverters/Micro Inverters/Optimizers. I can just talk from real world experience. In 20+ years we are now on our 3rd system. 1st one was a 3KW system with a quality string Inverter installed under the Eve outside...never a single component failed or showed noticeable degradation in 10 years. We sold the house and I do believe that it's still working (now 20 years) as I drive past the place fairly often and I can tell that the original panels are still on the roof. 2nd system was a 4.2KW hybrid system with the Inverters installed in the rumpus room. !0+ years absolutely no issues and after 10+ years I could not tell any degradation. In that period I went twice on the roof and gave the panels a wash-down with pure water, no detergent. This system has now been upgraded to 24KW. I directly know of 3 users of micro inverters that all had one or more issues with them, including one within weeks of the installation. Were they just unlucky?..possibly. Have I been just very lucky..also possible. But I also put the odds in my favour by selecting quality and proven components and reputable installers.

I have 4 optimisers to install on a 4 panel string that are either side of an east / west pitched roof

Gary, according to the GivEnergy data displayed at 11:30, you need to do some serious work and revisions. If I am reading the chart correctly, at 3AM you are buying power from the grid to recharge your batteries to 50% SOC. Act ~1PM, the batteries are fully charged from the solar panels. Since almost nothing is exported back to the grid, about half of your total solar production is just wasted. And that is from just a cursory analysis of the data. There is probably a lot more to be found.

While the information is helpful and well presented, in both this video and in your one on microinverters you do not address the implications of selecting either device type on the use of a battery system. Microinverters imply the use of a second device to convert the AC back to DC; from what I have seen, many battery systems cannot supply blackout power when used in this configuration. The design of the system allows battery use to do timeshifting, but not backup. Optimizers would appear to offer a simpler design as far as battery systems since the DC need only be stored in the battery (using a more efficient DC to DC transformer if needed), and the ability to configure the system for both timeshifting and full backup also appears simpler. What are your thoughts on this, especially where the installation is on a home where grid power may be less reliable and frequent interruptions may occur? I think many viewers would like that presentation...

I don't really care if my Solaredge optimizers fail once in a while and I've only had one fail in 9 years. New, from reputible ebay sellers, they are about $60 and used they are $30. Of course this is me doing the replacement myself, so my labor but it is very easy. I did have a Solaredge inverter fail after 9 years and replaced under warranty after 3 weeks down time. These are about $1600 but there seem to be a few old stock new for about half that and used are even less. I think you need to budget a couple hundred dollars a year for stuff. I'm in San Diego which famously (to us anyway) has the highest rates in the US, so my solar saves me over $3k a year.

1:44 How can such long wires be prevented so that the conditions do not cause wear of their surface insulation and eventually a short circuit and fire? If the conductors scratch that rough brick roof over time due to temperature changes and wind, then structural safety has been neglected. It is definitely not enough that the wires are "nicely" hidden under the panels.

On UKposts there are cases of failed optimisers and the company shut down the whole array till they replaced the one that failed

I believe that you have made this video with absolute positive intentions for your viewers. And I really mean that, no doubt there… but you have no real world comparison on string, string+optimizer, micro-inverter. Only your own experience with one solution and the rest is extrapolated based on marketing material. Though I’m absolutely sure your intentions are positive, I don’t think your reasoning aligns with test results. I’ve seen multiple tests that contradict the marketing of microinverter and optimizer claims. There are definitely use cases where those solutions are the best choice (exceptional shade, multiple orientations), but in my view it’s not the best choice by default and in all situations. They have good marketing, but I despise marketing that includes disinformation.

After all my research it seems just buying a good MPPT/ ac-dc inverter/battery charge controller combo unit will be the way to go. Spending $2300+ for optimizers just dont make sense. Thats 40% more added on top of the cost of my whole planned 5520w 25 panel setup with 10.2kwh battery system will cost. Mine will be in a field setting on the ground and unshaded, eventuall ill add a motorized arm thatll pivot the whole arrays mounting scaffold with the use of a peak sun sensor. I feel like itll do a lot more than these will in such an unshaded system

Today, so many UKpostsrs abandon the polite way of saying even a short greeting at the beginning of their video. You're clearly not one of those people who just get straight to the point - even though a greeting doesn't require much from anyone, it makes a pleasant impression. Thanks for that! Some have even replaced the greeting with "So", which seems really strange since it's at the beginning of a new topic. People like this who have rejected politeness are one proof that the best book of prophecy in the world, the Bible, is right when it tells us: "But know this, that in the last days there will be critical times that will be difficult to survive. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, scoffers, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, disloyal, having no natural affection. , agreeing to nothing to agreement, slanderers, self-tempered, furious, without the love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God" (2 Timothy 3:1-4)

These problems only arise with string inverters. Optimisers try to improve the disadvantages of string inverters. Optimisers also use solar power when there is little sunlight. But you could also use Micro Inverters and not have these disadvantages.

A tug of war between Microinverters and String with optimisers. Everyone is lying, not infact they are biased one or the other side. If cost and ROI is the concern, always go for legacy and proven. We need regulation in both sides to have some standards body to make sure customers do not suffer losses due to vendor lock-in as the solution is supposed to last half a century or more.

Not sure why you are so much in favour of micro inverters ! You forgot to mention-that nowadays most of people are going towards hybrid inverters so they can store energy in batteries. Solar installation have increased already a lot and the fact there is a monopoly (at least in uk) for micro inverters make the bill 20to 30% more expensive. Lastly, you can get a new inverter delivered to your door in few days and any qualified electrician can replace it (if no modifications are made to the installation!)

Because modern panels all have bypass diodes, why would solar optimizers add anything of value, it’s not clear to me. The risk here is that people are sold stuff they don’t need.

A point that gets overlooked in all these discussion is that optimisers have a limit to their power output of about 350w. In an optimal installation with no shading, I believe that a simple 400W panel only installation will produce more electricity than an equivalent optimised configuration albeit without all those diagnostics. During a planned re-roof, I was considering a 13 panel (5+5+3 the 3 being NW side) in-roof install which was quoted at £8.5k for a 5.33kW Solar Edge System, £10.4k for Enphase and a simple 2 aspect 5+5 4.1kW system for £6.3k using a small un complicated Growatt inverter. I decided that simple is best and may put the difference towards a Powerwall. The amount of problems people face with software updates for all these sub components is unreal so the less there is of it the better.

Not much point in a string inverter setup, with or without optimizers.

Surely a 0.05% failure rate is 1 in 2000 not one in 200?

Why do you need to convert to AC ?? I don't think Edison would agree even if Tesla would.

I have 25 panels installed in 2015. Ive had 2 microinverter failures. 1 in 2022 and 1 in 2023. Either your stats are wrong or im super unlikely. Enphase.

Having two systems, one with Tigo optimisers and one without, both connecting to SMA inverters, and both systems being installed in 2013, I can say the optimisers are snake oil, a con, and totally useless. They actually reduce reliability of the system as they introduce another piece of electronics, and another set of connections. To be fair, the Tigo system has been rock solid, but I hear of solarEdge optimisers failing quite often.

SolarEdge is one of the few inverter brands which offer meaningful aftersales warranty support and long duration warranties, all without breaking the bank. Others quality brands with good aftersales are Fronius or SMA. When the panel level monitoring and shading protection are factored in, I would almost never recommend any PV Customer go with any of the Chinese inverter brands which offer none of the above. Said another way, avoid Growatt, Solis, Fox, Luxpower, Huawei or any of that lot. Warranties are short duration and are not worth the paper they are printed on!

Interesting video,but, without hard facts about failure rates of the epuiment discussed, it is not very useful. To say that the inverter WILL fail within 10 years or so is a very broad statement and one which the manufacturers of quality products will take issue with. A video like this must be based on hard and well researched facts, not speculation.

dont put things that break on your roof lol. imo everyone lies about failure rates. most people now days have no idea how to check the health of their panels, and therefore the reported failure rate will always be less than the true failure rate. the people who understand solar and monitor their panels are usually the same people who can do the math and realize they dont need optimizers and dont want micro inverters. this means almost everyone who has optimizers is not the type of person who will recognize a device failure and report it. also the reported failure rates are likely only ever to represent the number that has been replaced. i bet in most cases the cost of labor its not worth it to replace them once they fail. solar margins are pretty thin, just use more copper and run more stuff in parellel if you want an optimizer that wont add more risk into the equation

I have a SE inverter with 15 optimisers in a single string - I’d say they are worth the extra for the gains over time due to shading and the mix of thin film and mono panels I have plus the reporting - all panels are not made equally - some have a difference of 10% over their life so far. In 10 years I’ve not had any issues until March this year when one optimiser stopped reporting - SE happily replaced it under warranty - downside being it was a pain to replace but I was able to do it myself luckily otherwise it would have been a scaffold plus installer job and £££ - with the new optimiser there wasn’t actually any difference to the total output I think it was just the data reporting that had failed rather than the power conversion 🫤

Why isn't there ONE video on the internet showing an array of solar panels and their output BEFORE putting optimisers on, and then showing their output AFTER putting optimisers on, to prove they actually work?