Every employer should consider Svelte if they want anyone to jump into code and be productive

Coming from vue ive built a small app for fun in svelte and i loved it - hope to use it as an income source one day

😂😂😂

​@@MSTRCMDRthere is this Indian Exam preparation site that uses Sveltekit.... I think they watched Fireship or something 🤔

I put it after 100 seconds video itself. 🙂

Still verbose and sometimes buggy

@@andreilucasgoncalves1416 can you elaborate?

@@eboodnero I don't remember very well about the bugs they gave, that was a long time ago. If I'm not mistaken it was about {...props}, errors with transitions and the {#key}. In react you can pass Something while in svelte you have to pass the component. So you would have to create a file to have the Something

can you provide use case for this where cannot handle ?

@@andreilucasgoncalves1416 It's still useful. I wrote a small router library for Svelte that uses this with custom component that takes in your page component.

Which means you are a bad developer :)

@@FreehuntX93 noooooooooo xD

@@FreehuntX93 Why?

@@MrMudbill Because it looks so ugly and you can't even pass components as props.

@@jamescaramello6229 🤣🤣🤣....you are just too pained that svelte is better

Wait till you try elm

@@Ricardoromero4444 I puked little

​@@Ricardoromero4444Elm is (was?) nice, but the governance got screwed, didn't it?

elm has been dead for a while now

@@Ricardoromero4444 Wait till you try Elixir

😂😂😂

RIP 😂

Oof hahah

You poor thing.

How? As a Java developer svelte looks more like a template engine.

I ended up doing the same to a side project of mine. The react iteration was the first serious code project i'd ever completed, and i don't know HOW i powered through that with little to no previous experience! That being said, the svelte iteration is much more maintainable (partially due to me actually knowing what i was doing though) and i still work on it regularly

No javascript framework comes even close to features of laravel

​@@echoptic775go on

​@@echoptic775 laravel have fundamental problem that all php frameworks shares... too reliant to ssr... unless you are willing to add inertia to your dependencies or use caching periodically... not saying it's bad or anything... it's just when not all of your pages needs full refresh from server, full ssr on all pages is just a waste of server resources... therefor going for laravel sanctum/breeze is more lenient to frontend backend separation...

​@@hakim_jazuliisn't the SSR problem solved by "laravel + frontend JavaScript framework"?

It's nice to be young

coming from a few years of Angular development, I found Svelte much easier to learn than React, templating in HTML, controller logic in JS, scoped CSS in components, it all made a lot more sense to me.

What hackathon btw?

Is a little weird because we React devs are used to suffer

@@JERZAMORA indeed 😭

"My only gripe is that it is a little bit weird to wrap your head around at first if you're a hardcore React dev" Well, if you can wrap your head around React....

@@LongJourneys Browsers already have support for components, but the implementation is utter garbage.

"Everything just works out of the box.", trust me, it doesn't, It really depends on what project you are working on, I almost thought you were being sarcastic at some point. The Svelte ecosystem is far away comparing to React/Vue/Angular. A lot of UI libraries are being so inconsistent. People just randomly implement libs in their own svelte ways which made them hard to use and debug. If you are working on complex web app, not the generic blog website. You will have hard time to use Svelte even the basis looks so promising, but that's it after the initial honey phase. One of biggest regrets is to use Svelte in production (not my decision) for one of the company projects I had work on, it ends up porting a lot of React libs as workaround or hacking here and there because Svelte ecosystem is not ready. A lot of things are not just about let's reinvent the wheel by ourselves. Just give Svelte more time to grow up, it's good, just need more time. If you foresee you will build something complex, involves text editor, dnd or something similar, go for react/vue/angular or whatever. Don't do Svelte, at least for now. God knows how many components I had to reinvent at that moment that doesn't exist on the ecosystem because many OS svelte libs I went through just never meet the semi quality what React have.

Also, after working with Svelte quite amount of time, if you truly went through the lifecycle, how dollar sign, store and Svelte syntax works with complex amount of logics. At certain point you will find for some of scenario React is actually better in terms of readability and control, where Svelte is a bit of messy. You will appreciate how different frameworks made their decisions. There is no such a silver bullet, but I do wish svelte being a better bullet.

There Is the IBM Carbon Components library for Svelte too. The look is a bit 'corporate', but the collection of components and the ease of use is fantastic!

@@doc8527 "At certain point you will find for some of scenario React is actually better in terms of readability and control, where Svelte is a bit of messy" respectfully, that sounds more like poor implementation rather than Svelte itself. Sorry, but If you write Svelte with the React mindset, of course the result will be a master-crap.

That's great to know

Svelte v Solidjs

Vue vs React

How did you find svelte jobs?

how did you find massive ecosystem of reactjs for Svelte ? React Libraries are in 100000s while Svelte ????

@@yhz2K You probably do not need as big of an ecosystem because you have the vanilla js ecosystem which is huge already.

@@yhz2K you probably dont need huge ecosystem for svelte because it already comes with the feature you need 80% of the time. Although svelte lacks good UI libraries, but recently i came across shadcn-svelte which happens to work fine.

@@clementseiller1255 Exactly. Svelte does not mind if you manually manipulate the DOM, so I've found pretty much any vanilla js library to work without issue.

great point 👍

why is it wrong? seems like a 1:1 comparison since useEffect will also perform side effects once the element has been mounted

Good call, that is an important distinction.

Also keep in mind that any return function in an async onMount won't be called when the component is unmounted. This is type checked in v4 I believe.

true i know nothingof pwa

Fireship has a PWA tutorial in his 100 seconds playlists (but it's 8 minutes).

I know this was 7 months ago, but I just finished porting our legacy angular frontend to sveltekit and it flies man. Codebase is like 70% smaller, super readable and all the rxjs functionality is pushed to stores with ease. Definitely reccomend.

I have coded in React for a lot of years. And i have seen how redux and other important libraries in React got updated from React Class to React Hooks. I have seen the transition and it was really frustrating as a react developer to keep learning new libraries every now and then to do the exact same thing you did 3 years ago. Which is why I really love the simplicity of Svelte. React requires writing a lot of code to do some simple things. However, with svelte you get the exact output you want by writing less codebase. Which is why i really love it for it's simplicity and easy of use.

Yes! This pissed me off in Vue when I couldn't debug a graphical bug. No idea why a component where everything else is scoped to said component literally by design and by definition of 'component framework' but would suddenly be default global in one section of it (the style) makes no sense.

@@zachhopkins6162 What do you mean? Did you used 'scoped' attribute or 'module'? Because these 2 limit tag to only that SFC.

I think this is why angular with material is a real option. Because once you break the learning curve, it’s really easy to create great apps, really quickly with angular and material

vuetify for Vue, Material UI for Solid JS... MUI for React, I love material UI, easy and very well supported... would not be surprised if there is a material UI library for Svelte, Svelte looks very very interesting, I am deciding between Solid JS and Svelte to redo my portfolio site (PHP, MVVM, KendoUI, very outdated) ... one of the reasons, and to your point, why I am deciding on Solid JS, is because a Material UI library exists for Solid JS. However I am VueJS developer and vite and nuxt make SSR easy for SEO purposes.. I love VueJS, but some times it can get a bit frustrating as well especially at scale with SSR...

If you like tailwind philosophy, Skeleton for svelte is amazing. I also find Chakra for React much better than material ui.

IBM Carbon for Svelte is great !

I don't have the 13 bucks. I would have bought it

sveltekit got good eco-system too

svelte is approaching that critical mass where the ecosystem will be large enough that it won't be a factor anymore in those comparisons

@@TheGargalon nah.. not that great.. I had to build a lot of stuff on my own on my last svelte project :/

​@@danvilela hmmm to be honest, don't you also have to build your own stuff in React on any serious projects? Like sure, you can just roll MUI everywhere and get some project going, but working at a real company or developing a new startup, you need bespoke components that fill your design team's specific brand/ux and meet the application's core requirements. Svelte has a ton of fantastic low-level ui libraries that you can build on top of to get a running start, and that's all that is actually reasonable to use anyway in a professional setting. The entire statement has a certain smell to it "I had to build stuff on my own :/".... well, yeah, duh.... you're an engineer, right?

@@nomadtrails no not that. I mean that most Svelte libs that I tried is abandoned. One example: headless UI. I won’t rebuild that.. other ui ones are also abandoned, there are wayy less stuff available.. its just a general feeling using the thing that the community is waaaaay smaller

React's ecosystem is 99% trying to fix bad things about React, lol. Svelte makes using existing vanilla js libraries easy so you are not locked into a single ecosystem. Using vanilla js in React possible but not convenient (which is why, like, half of React libraries are just wrappers for vanilla js libraries, lol -- the other half are state management libraries because doing that out of the box with React is pain).

@@lydianlights I couldn't agree more

Bokeh

​@@lydianlightsthis seems like the trendy thing to say these days. What exactly is broken in React and fixed by the ecosystem? And don't just throw in state management (I can see it coming) if you don't tell me what exactly is wrong there. And if you think devs actually need things like Redux for big projects, that's on you not React. The only library I cannot work without is React Query, and that's mostly for its caching and deduping features nothing else. I love Svelte, absolutely love it, but it's no where near as battle tested as React, and the ecosystem of component libraries alone is enough to make me think twice at this point.

I mean, unless you didn't read it, it was clearly stated in vue's docs...

Don't feel dumb, it's just that React is an overengineered mess

Then you use it on a real full scale application for 6 months, it inevitably becomes messy and you run into its own limitations, you start hating it, a new shiny framework appears, you feel dumb for using Svelte, you switch to the new framework, the cycle repeats.

@@bluecup25 Nope. I hate React because it IS an overengineered mess, but always loved (and still do) working on Vue or Svelte projects. Have been working on Vue/Svelte projects for years.

​@@BabyPigmanRobotStrange, because I tried using svelte for a large project and ended up going back to next.js. Maybe over engineered is the way for me lol. Mostly because I spent a good amount of time using nestjs.

I think it's less that React is necessarily *hard* per se, and moreso that React has a bunch of leaky abstractions that you just have to know and that end up decreasing your codes clarity. To me, literally every time I've seen a React vs. Svelte comparison, the Svelte code looks just so much easier to read. That coupled with the added performance just makes Svelte a killer combo. All this said -- I still respect React for its place in the evolution of UI frameworks! It was and continues to be a monumentally important framework, obviously. But I do think that the newer kid on the block is actually better this time. Just me 2 cents though :)

@@JaLikon65 Yes, this so much. React is a garbage pile of leaky abstraction. It requires soooo much knowledge from the dev to not immediately shoot themself in the foot with stuff like useEffect and useContext. Especially when stuff starts interacting in complex ways. I know react very well, but there is so much mental overhead that comes with it that people tend to forget once they are good at it.

@@JaLikon65 No one is talking about being better though. I believe there is more frameworks besides Svelte that are "better" than React, and If I just wanted better I'd be using solidJS already, but no frontend framework libraries are as mature as the react ones. Anyways, my point was that the React complains don't seem valid to me. I don't have much problems with "code clarity" for example. Since I learned that I can do custom hooks, my react code looks pretty clean imo, and I can't think of that many "leaky abstractions" react has. React is basically state, context, useeffect, props, create custom hooks and learning the different techniques to render conditional/situation stuff i guess? Add the annoying router from the original CRA or the few additional layers that u will have to learn if you pick NextJS instead, and thats it. You can now do almost everything, and the rest is better handled by libraries(example: http requests). If you start learning other frameworks, you will also have to learn their own abstractions, so you will still lose time and do lots of mistakes. The only difference is that react doesn't let you code the vanilla way, but once you accept it, it becomes easy.

​@@lydianlights useContext api could be less confusing not gonna lie. useEffect is nothing too out of this world. The problem is that people use useEffect more than they should sometimes. You do shoot yourself in the foot indeed, but you don't shoot yourself in the foot when you're learning svelte?

@@upsxace useEffect is like... "oh I wanna use this intermediate function to do something... oh why is it using old state values whenever I call it... oh I better add it to the dependency array... oh why is my component infinitely rerendering... oh I have to use this useCallback hook instead of a plain function...". I just always think about the boilerplate I had to write to get lodash's debounce() to play nicely with React, lol. I think it's not that Svelte lacks complexity, just that it's a lot easier to get to the root of the issue imo. I think React is definitely powerful and was ahead of its time and was an important milestone, but I am glad something better is coming along. One thing I think is actually very good about React that people don't talk about is its emphasis on one-way data binding. That is one of the things React enforces that truly does help reduce complexity immensely and I wish Svelte and Solid has a more opinionated stance on that. One-way binding is more opt-in in those frameworks and not actually enforced by the structure of the framework itself. Also I didn't mean to write an essay, whoops lol.

Vue 3 looks a lot like React though, and I liked Vue 2 the most

@@theohallenius8882 How? Script setup is great! So much better than Vue 2 and you can still do all your Vue 2 stuff in Vue 3

@@theohallenius8882 how? in my opinion vue3 is more readble than the OptionsAPI. CompositionAPI with is really made it more JavaScripty

@@AnwarulIslamYT Composition api IMHO was created as syntax sugar for react people. I am currently using vue3 with options API and i feel alot bettern than using comp API. the thing with options api is that the logic is "sloted". You cannot put methods here then some data, then other methods way below. Is all placed in their respective place making navigation easier

@@AnwarulIslamYT the whole option composition thing i think missed the mark with making vue a simple alternative like evan wanted originally

I was just about to comment on this. I’m confused as to why it wasn’t mentioned. Idk if that was a sponsor shoutout or what but definitely weird that it wasn’t talked about for global level.

Because that is an absolute hell to work with on anything but the simplest use cases. Zustand is a billions times better.

He used Jotai which is a vastly superior option to Context. Context has more boilerplate, is more annoying to optimize and as your app scales, you need to deal with placing contexts at the correct level. Ignoring Context altogether and using Jotai as a replacement (a 2kb lib) is the correct approach. Context is fine for very simple use cases, but is pretty uncommon for any serious web app.

I almost included it. Svelte and React both have context APIs that are almost identical, but they're best for specialized cases where you need data scoped at specific levels of the component tree. I would not use context for global state management.

Good luck using context for global state. You will rerender your app a trillion times.

as far as I know, shared context is not reactive, so it's not about state

@@merovingen4546 it is reactive if your context returns states as values

I used useContext in my react project, but then I heard that useContext does a lot of unnecessary re-renders when the context changes.

​@@stephengruzinSpecifically, Context is hard to optimize for re-renders as your app scales. If your context is a simple object, every consumer is going to re-render when that object changes, even if that consumer cares about only one field. The solution is to put each field into its own Context. Which is really laborious to do for complex data. Fireship did the correct thing by using Jotai. Most state management libraries (redux, zustand, etc) will only trigger re-renders when the slice of data from the state you're reading has changed.

why you so mad with React lil bro, just move on

@@nikdanilov2854 he already did lil sis.

@@paradiseexpress3639 LOL😄

Why? What makes you say that?

Why is that 😂

@@Dev-kw8co I mean...his video is basically bias...

​@@alvanwilcan you create a React bias video vs Svelte?

​@@thedelanyojajaja best answer. Do you have anything good to say about react?