You know me well, it seems 😁

Thanks! And yes, I actually am :)

Yeah, I found that super-interesting too! I also made me wonder if that represents a more general life-cycle of roles: individuals identify a need, and service it independently, and then gradually become established. And possibly also a more general societal cycle between employment and freelance? Dunno, it sparked a lot of questions!

I was wondering this as well. I actually think that using a numbering system is completely essential after having experimented with several different systems in several different programs. the permanent notes are important but really, it’s the link between the permanent notes that generate new ideas. because of that,two things become important. 1- explaining the connection between two related notes, explicitly. And 2, when it is time, creating notes which explain groups of related permanent notes that arise as you go on reading things. That stage of zettlekasten is what I believe People are beginning to refer to a synthesis. Starting to think about how to implement this in Tana and I’m thinking that perhaps I just need to create a table that seats permanent notes in a particular order that are sorted by a numeric prefix. I think it’s also important to mention that the purpose of zettlekasten is open minded thinking which produces output to some degree, so as groups arise, the notes that begin to summarize groups, become papers or projects, or something of the like. So sometimes it makes sense to also tag permanent notes for a specific project If you know that some of the information is going to be used for a particular output.

@@LiveKeyboardist Hello, I am curious if you found a way to incorporate a numbering system in Tana?

Hi Rob, I'm finding my experimentation (wrangling) in Tana is making me reassess the usage and usefulness of the traditional ZK nomenclature. Is it time to reassess, I wonder? New tool, new possibilities, new coming to terms?

So kinda sorta all of the above? :D If you want to look up Sönke's exact description, you can check chapter 2.1, "Writing a paper step by step". Literature notes are your notes ON someone elses work. So evidence, claim, or just your observation about what you've read (could be style, could be on argument structure as well, etc). But maps most closely to evidence and what I've previously called "literature claims". Permanent notes are more like...synthesis notes? They can be like claim notes in QCE for sure, and question notes would also fit. So yeah...it certainly has a lot of overlap with QCE in some ways, but is also different. Hard to map, imo.

@@cortexfuturatools Hard to map ... good point. I've been working in the ZK/note-taking field (on Roam first up) for a couple of years now, and I'm still refining my own system and borrowing from others along the way. I agree re lit. notes being about "others' work". I have been using a "book map" structure (chapter by chapter including quotes, comments etc.) in my own "fleeting" notes section of a graph. These notes (which are linked to the source) then become synthesised into claims or questions which I'm starting to supertag in Tana. Making the connections in the most efficient way is the constant challenge, I find.

@@cortexfuturatools Great video! I came here to ask a similar question to Rob’s. Maybe more practically/personally - how do you use those 2 frameworks (and possible combine them) yourself? Or do you only use one or neither of them? To me literature notes and claims feel quite similar based on how I use them. My main issue with ZK is that I often don’t feel the need to have Permanent notes until far in the future (when a topic becomes something I’m actively working in rather than passively reading about) and I like that Claim makes could make things a bit more flat. On the other hand there isn’t a great existing way to e.g. combine 3 people making similar but subtly different claims, other than writing a new explicit claim about the disagreement that is more of a synthesis note. (Realizing this last part is exactly what Lukas said).

Came to ask questions similar to both Rob and Can! It feels like there's definitely overlap between ZK and QCE (your video on that was fantastic Lukas), but potentially room for aspects of both... Interested to know how folks integrate them. I'm also interested in at what point a claim passes into a statement of fact; I appreciate epistemologically that's a big question(!), but I mean specifically in the context of a hybrid system incorporating QCE, which is new to me. It's been a while since my MA, but I'm considering a PhD, and so trying to hone my research skills... Thanks!

Yes it does! :)