SpaceX Starship's #1 System Fix Needed!
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Starship 29 test campaign is already coming to an end! What now? How will SpaceX solve the issues from flight three? The end of the Delta Rockets is here! And an unexpected duo is working on a brand new rocket.
#SpaceX #starship #elonmusk #starbase
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Editing: John Young, Alex Potvin, Stefanie Schlang
Photography: John Cargile, John Winkopp & Stefanie Schlang
3D Animation: Voop3D
Script & Research: Eryk Gawron, Oskar Wrobel, Felix Schlang
LIVE Production: Astro Roadie
Host: Felix Schlang
Production: Stefanie & Felix Schlang
Graphics & Media Processing: Jonathan Heuer, Felix Schlang
Credit:
⭐SpaceX
⭐NASA
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📄Links for this Episode:
www.spacex.com
www.spacex.com/starship
@Whataboutit Місяць тому
10% OFF Hoverpens + free shipping to most with code WAI: North America +: bit.ly/wai_novium UK & EU: bit.ly/wai_noviumeu Do you believe SpaceX will solve the tile problem in future missions, or will they need to explore alternative solutions? How would you improve this?
@Pateramalina Місяць тому
please start putting chapters in the timeline
@aarondyer.pianist Місяць тому
I want to know if they will sell tickets so we can BOOP the ship's nosecone.
@Nobe_Oddy Місяць тому
Yes we know "you are not actually from the US.... but you came here in your 20's and am of iron origin" lmao at least that's what Google Lens was able to read and translate LOL - I KNOW there is more to it because it didn't translate ALL the words (It couldn't read your handwriting lol it's ok.. I couldn't read your German . lol :)
@LukaArtelj Місяць тому
Where is TJ, he is the best
@martinmarcinkiewiez9745 Місяць тому
I remember that SpaceX said at the beginning that the process of changing the heat shield tiles will be done by robots. I guess that's why almost all tiles are made in the same shape and size. For me this is just a testing phase, but then, when they are over, replacements with such robots will be expedited.
@bnaivar Місяць тому
Maybe SpaceX should look into thruster heaters. As I recall, NASA put heaters on the thruster vents after Gemini 8. The thruster heaters were also a major milestone in the Apollo 13 restart.
@kenanacampora Місяць тому
Excellent recall and comment.
@TniasJ Місяць тому
I thought the exact same thing. Induction coils
@davidelliott5843 Місяць тому
The ship sides are rigid only when it’s pressurised. “Oil canning” (panel pops in/out) will pop tiles off as easy as….
@timzalusky Місяць тому
@@TniasJ induction coils need additional cooling and large amounts of alternating current. Most likely they will just put on some temperature controlled PTC heaters that autoregulate to somewhere between 60F and 100F. Wirebased or flex based silicone heaters are possible, but the fastest way would be bonding on heater wire. Basically, a high end version of heat strips used to keep gutters/roofs ice free.
@JM-yh4yf Місяць тому
@@timzaluskyyeah' I think the solution could be as simple as heating a copper wire in the right place.
@zaz4667 Місяць тому
6:54 MORE COW BELL, MORE COW BELL! MORE COW BELL!
@genebohannon8820 Місяць тому
Yeah! Blast Def Leopard next launch.
@glenkeating7333 Місяць тому
Get Christopher Walken to do the commentary for the next launch. ..
@Whataboutit Місяць тому
We need more Cow Bell!!!!
@gmancolo Місяць тому
@@glenkeating7333 OMG. :D
@isaias-b Місяць тому
We need to get el estepario siberiano on there hes the king of the sneaky cowbells I think 😅🤭
@Rosebuddy007 Місяць тому
I put your IFT-3 stream up on the TV in my living room. My parents ended up watching with me, and my mom kept mentioning how it was so refreshing to see someone so excited about a spaceship launch. That was compared to the old NASA launches where it was some stiff presenter that couldn’t care less and didn’t know anything about the ship itself. “Look at that guy in the corner! He just looks so excited! I don’t know what’s going on but I’m excited now haha!”
@Whataboutit Місяць тому
Awww! That has to be the sweetest comment I received about our IFT-3 Live Stream! Thank you so much for sharing this and say hi to your Mom from the entire team. That is EXACTLY what we want to achieve with all this. To get people excited about what's going on! Thank you!
@jamescobban857 Місяць тому
I guess she wasn't old enough to remember Walter Cronkite.
@chgr7025 Місяць тому
@@Whataboutit I totally agree! I wish I would have been able to do that with my family. My wife would have absolutely loved your coverage from the WAI team. Thank you so much for all you guys do!
@Rosebuddy007 29 днів тому
@@leonskum6864 nah, so if you read my comment, I never said we support El*n. Actually my mom hates the guy 😂 “if he wants to go to Mars so bad, he should be the first one there” is what she always says. I went to college for Mechanical Engineering and I know a little bit of the science behind rockets. Science in action is still fun to watch. I specifically watch WAI or other small YT channels because they do a great job on breaking down updates while keeping it entertaining. I highly suggest watching Smarter Everyday’s video on his speech to various space company executives, it explains the problems with the idea behind Starship and the overall Artemis program, while also encouraging to keep up the research.
@alexprocyk8805 28 днів тому
Sell the sizzle, not the steak. Cause the steak is a piece of burnt crap
@RamblingBob Місяць тому
Hi - I worked in an asbestos factory in the early 1970s and yes, asbestos is hazardous stuff. However, WE WOVE ASBESTOS TO MAKE CLUTCH LININGS for big equipment. Weaving a ceramic / asbestos heat-shield would very much easier to attach to the Starship and easier to replace.
@neonempire1684 Місяць тому
Maintainability is higher for modular systems like tiles.
@RamblingBob 28 днів тому
@@neonempire1684 The point is that the "fall-off-ability" of tiles is very high and the maintainability of woven ceramic hasn't been tried. There's no reason why modular techniques couldn't be used. Hey... someone patent it for me, lol.
@RamblingBob 27 днів тому
@@neonempire1684 Have spun ceramics been tried? I've not heard of this, so I'm not sure you can claim maintainability is better. It would seem to be a case of closed minds.... Tiles? We've always done it this way. There are many minerals which can be spun and woven, for example rockwool and slag wool. There are also woven organic crystals with a usable temp range of 300degrees. SpaceX started at 1st principals with - steel - rocket engines - reuasability The ceramic tiles have failed and keep failing. I'm suggesting investigating woven ceramics could be researched as well as keep trying to improve ceramic tiles, that is the methodology which doomed the Space Shuttle Columbia.
@Nigfis 27 днів тому
@@RamblingBob Hey Bob. Great idea. I was thinking about the same problem and how it might need larger, preformed sections made of a material that behaves not unlike asbestos, to successfully cover the Starship. I think your suggestion of a woven ceramic material should be considered more. I think you are on the right track, and I hope some engineer or other picks it up and runs with it.
@lanav9679 26 днів тому
Not cool Dude
@gregory596 Місяць тому
That Delta II explosion in 1997 noticeably shook my office building 25 miles away. I thought someone downstairs on the loading dock had crashed the forklift into a column.
@Whataboutit Місяць тому
WOW! I would have loved to see that!
@richmondjoe7335 Місяць тому
I've lived in the country for years.. every winter pipes would freeze and burst. The fix I deployed was "Resistance Heat Tape", a low power solution that would be energized once the outside temperature dropped below 0C/32F, why couldn't a solution like that be deployed to keep the thruster valves from freezing over?
@simonsong1743 Місяць тому
Is that the reason why they couldn't reignite?
@Whataboutit Місяць тому
It can. Thruster heaters. We should have mentioned that.
@AbhChallenger Місяць тому
@@WhataboutitThe great part about thruster heaters is you only need to keep it just hot enough so that liquid oxygen or methane does not freeze on the walls of the thruster. Even if it freezes in the center. The gas will instantly push everything out. That should mean very little heating will actually be needed. Even better, if you are in a long coast and don't need the thruster for a while. You can just turn the heaters off and back on only when you need to prepare to use them again.
@BBBrasil Місяць тому
10:34 I trust SpaceX will solve this easily. If anything it will be a solution for lots of other issues, such as lunar landing and propellant transfer.
@MegaIrgendetwas 29 днів тому
Hey Felix, fellow media guy/ Editor here. Just a quick idea: Instead of saying "If the test happened you will se it on screen" you could record a few lines (test did occur / did not occur) and let the editor pick them, depending on what happened. Thanks for the awesome coverage, very well produced as usual!
@serphorus 27 днів тому
you might know better since you're actually experienced/qualified, but i kinda like to see that because it shows that these videos' production is an ongoing process from real people. it just makes it seem more down-to-earth, pun intended.
@chemicle 27 днів тому
@@serphorus I see the point @megalrgendetwas mentioning - I get the real people comment, but they're creating content and trying to up their game all the time - we see it in different ways and this is one small way they could improve their quality. It's a good suggestion.
@dutchuniverse Місяць тому
I blame Tim for flight 3 rolling out of control 🤣
@davecurtis8833 Місяць тому
Definitely Tim's fault.
@HarryNicNicholas Місяць тому
9:11 is it just me and my pareidolia or is there a photo of someone's face stuck on the center of that thruster??
@filonin2 Місяць тому
No, that looks like a cardboard face stuck on there.
@Whataboutit Місяць тому
SpaceX is known for making these kinds of jokes! That's the "Musk Factor". There's a Mustach on one of the bridge cranes in the bays. There were tons of Raptor engines delivered with memes on them. Raptor 100 for example had the 💯 emoji printed on the bell and so on. I love it! :D
@cccaaa9034 Місяць тому
💯
@jasonjonkerharms 29 днів тому
A few possible ideas that may or may not have been mentioned already: Perhaps wrap the Starship in a vehicle type adhesive wrap material to hold tiles in place until re-entry burns it off. Perhaps the commonly suggested placement of flaps aft of the heat shield might not only reduce number of tile shapes, but could also aid in more closely matching the Starship profile to that of a Dragon capsule for aerodynamic stability. Perhaps an on-orbit robo-arm to inspect for and replace tiles. Perhaps a semicircular shaped nosecone with an eyelid type opening that opens within the slightly larger diameter heat shield “half” that would also enable less number of tile shapes and allow for a large and robust cargo door. This semicircle nose cone could also be removable at Stage Zero to allow for various cylinder shaped third party cargo configurations to be placed within a standardized Starship’s cargo bay. Eg. Space station or space ship, satellites, refuelling tanks etc. Looking forward to fourth launch!
@anotherspontaneousvideo5826 Місяць тому
As for the heatshield, presumably the issue is that during vibration the heat tiles crash each other at the margins and some of them get cracked and then fall off. In this case, the gaps between the tiles may be increased exceeding the vibration movement and the tiles have to change the form becoming more outward protruded, like pyramid shaped for example. The tiles need to become taller what causes the plasma flow to get disturbed further away from the body of the ship and maybe even to get eaten up in the in between gap. For sure there are flowsimulations which can calculate the height of the roughness for a hydro-/ aerodynamic optimized surface . The skin of the sharks is as well rough which increases hydrodynamics.
@lesjohnson2916 Місяць тому
I've been thinking about the attachment pins may be cracking the tiles under pressure. They look sharp ended and the insulation under the tile is compressible... I know there is an insert within the tile body, but does it have enough surface area to spread the load?
@benkusworl4934 Місяць тому
put a net arround the heattiles and they cant fall off. lol
@lesjohnson2916 22 дні тому
The vibration to the tiles comes from the steel attachment pins. Another idea could be to address the connection point to better distribute and dampen the vibration while allowing for the tile to move along the connecting pin axis as the ship expands and contracts - just a bit. The underside of the tile could also attach to the insulating blanket like Velcro. The insulation exposed surface could have a closed loop surface and the underside of the tile could be a rough/exposed surface area where the silica-based strands could hook into the closed loop insulation. The idea is to allow for expansion and contraction in several axis/directions while being anchored to the ship via the pin mechanism with most of the underside of each tile being connected to the insulating fabric. And the best part, it is complicated. ;) LOL, but possible?
@anotherspontaneousvideo5826 22 дні тому
@@lesjohnson2916 Nice to have an exchange of opinions. Pictures of the welded attachements have been shown on utube : on the first glance they look like metal sheet stamped to an arrow tip shape. In this case propably an arrow tip "hooks" inside an orifice: the retention of the tiles seems to consist in the tiles been arrested by the "arrow" and hold under vertical pressure on to the surface. The question is how well "free "floating suspended are they since there is quite a lot of vibration ongoing. In mechanics there are bent wires attachements which include loops like springs which can absorb vibration. A attachement made out of a looped wire may absorb more vibration than a metal sheet. ; maybe, but what do I know? :)
@drewbruskewitz9741 Місяць тому
Why could they not incorporate a resistant heater on the nozzle to raise the temperature of the nozzle surface to a point where ice cannot build up? They use these systems in deep freezers to prevent ice buildup and it seems to be an easy and straight forward solution to this issue?
@adrianwilson7536 24 дні тому
Um, no power source? Remember this spaceship is supposed to be able to park in orbit for months or years. Rocket make no electricity so the unit Telus on batteries. Solar panels don't handle high thrust. Also that system would need to survive when the bell gets cherry hot while burning and not affect the bells expansion and contraction.
@All_Original Місяць тому
Awsome vid, as always! Keep up the great work WAI Team!
@DerekJones1081962 29 днів тому
Using vent lines is indeed a good cold gas thrust mechanism. If these did indeed freeze then larger lines and valves or electric preheater tapes might be the easiest fix. Wirhout the need for complex hot gas thrusters. As you pointed out the Apollo program and Dragon capsules on the other hand, use separate hypergolic (chemical) thrusters. Which option is the least weight intensive is indeed for the engineers to decide. My guess from a restart reliability standpoint, especially from the lunar starship standpoint is chemical thrusters if not as primary RCS at least as a redundant backup for hot gas ignition. The solution for Raptor restart might also, give them an epiphany, on the ultimate solution.
@duanefentiman Місяць тому
thankyou for explaining in simple terms what that UKposts interview was about. I was trying to search for a explanation on it for ages and couldn't find anyone to explain but felix you little star has done it perfectly!
@TrzCharlie Місяць тому
I believe the heat tile problem will end up being un-solvable because of the the blast sound way reflectivity and transfered vibrations from the test and launch stands. I think that smaller tiles placed over seams in the vehicle may solve the vibrational issues at those joints. And, perhaps transpiration cooling may need to be integrated into the entire system.
@UP5511Americasgonesantafe Місяць тому
3:19 thats not S28 thats S26
@mathiasderichbin2027 Місяць тому
Filix! Du bist der Beste! Kein unnötiges Geschwafel, dafür alle News und Fakten. Sehr geil!
@Exmatrikulant Місяць тому
Am I crazy or is there a face on the thruster at 9:08?
@dangorneanu9616 Місяць тому
U arent crazy there really is a face,lol😂
@swiss5554 Місяць тому
It can't be that both of us are crazy
@mattjackson9859 Місяць тому
Looks like Morrissey
@mochachaiguy Місяць тому
I saw that too. Is it Felix?
@mememaster147 Місяць тому
@@mochachaiguy looks like Felix to me
@HubbleSpaceTelescope34 Місяць тому
I love how informational this is! Thanks for this WAI, keep it up!
@chrisschindler7634 Місяць тому
Congratulations
@n2l2l Місяць тому
Our collegue from Polish channel @Rakietomania is writing scenarios to WAI episodes. Congrats
@priceringo1756 Місяць тому
We all watched the venting of the cargo bay out of its doors. SpaceX needs a way to control venting before opening the doors and more importantly, to allow intake as the ship enters the atmosphere when landing.
@douginorlando6260 Місяць тому
Makes me wonder if the booster had some internal spaces with a vacuum of space, then get crushed the last 10 km as atmospheric pressure doubles every 3 km or 2 seconds.
@BradAkersphotography Місяць тому
Yes Felix, Deutschland is in Vundabar! Really enjoyed my time there. I’m glad you’re here in the states! Not easy, video of the floods, can imagine what it was like in person. I’m glad you and you’re family safe.
@johnhm30 Місяць тому
Dear Felix and the What About It team, I have not commented before but have been following your channel for a long time. In fact, it helped inspire my daughter's interest in SpaceX and in physics. You invited ideas about the difficulty controlling the attitude of Starship. We think there is a major problem with relying upon half empty tanks in both starship and booster. Even with baffles, there is likely to be destabilizing sloshing in such a big vehicle and we suspect the engines are cutting out due to lack of stable fuel pressure. Most rockets don't have to fly backwards and slow down, with fuel accelerated to the wrong end. Perhaps Falcon 9's cold nitrogen ullage can do the job, but how much added nitrogen would be required to send starship to the moon and back? We got inspiration from looking at the old natural gas holders rusting away in many towns. They have a spirally guided system to raise and lower according to the volume of gas stored. Could the starship and booster tanks have a screw-closed piston that steadily screws down as fuel is used to keep the liquid under pressure? I understand that the proposed XCOR lynx engine had a piston driven fuel supply. The movement would not have to be rapid, just enough to keep up with fuel burn. Something for electrical motors like for the nozzle gimballing? It sounds overengineered but is it really more complicated than having baffles, ullage gas, header tanks and probably header tanks for the header tanks because the starship must relight so many times. For the RCS thrusters, hot thrusters are needed for the lunar landing anyway so small methylox thusters using the same fuel are the way to go and obviously not a problem if the tanks are pressurised as above. Also more fuel efficient that venting unburnt gas. It is difficult to see long term deep space exploration use for starship with any system relying upon multiple sloshing tanks and various different gases. Keep up the good work!
@EMichaelBall Місяць тому
That’s a pretty big moving part to break. Best part no part blah blah
@michaelmurphy6195 Місяць тому
Tell us something we don't know. The ship had little to no attitude control from the moment it shut down the 2nd stage at orbital speed. From the video the ship continued to out gas propellant after the engine shut down. The out gassing itself could have thrown off the attitude control acting as a cold thruster. It also looked like propellant was leaking from the check valves on the Starshp QC that they have been having problems with since they went to hot staging raising the angle the QC connects with.
@Steven_Edwards Місяць тому
That's what I said. Had it has a proper RCS system, the spin very likely could have been arrested. I am not sure there is a good solution short-term, short of, idunno, retrofitting in something like dracos. If it is purely a vent freezing issue, some of the others have suggested heating the vents and plumbing which seems like it could be feasible.
@michaelmurphy6195 Місяць тому
@@Steven_Edwards Falcon 9 hasn't had attitude control issues, but it jettisons the second stage after orbital speed as a loss. The capsule attitude control seems to work effortlessly with cold gas nitrogen.
@michaelmurphy6195 Місяць тому
@@Steven_Edwards The attitude control jets could have iced up from the out gassing propellant
@christophermaguire9206 Місяць тому
Thanks for the update Felix, you rock😊
@otpyrcralphpierre1742 Місяць тому
Excellent update. Thank you Felix and Team!
@vicnighthorse Місяць тому
Felix's words made me remember that '60s-'80s movie trope "This is just crazy enough to work!" Damn, that one got old fast and was used too long😖 It was right up there with "A rag tag collection of misfits...."
@nyyotam4057 Місяць тому
One possible solution for fuel slosh is directly from the 3D printing world: When you 3D print in special materials, as in Chocolate, you use a syringe that the extruder motor shoves the piston into, to extrude the exact volume of chocolate. That way you have no bubbles or chocholate sloshes when the printer head moves.. They will need to implement some kind of variable fuel tanks volumes.
@roborchiston9419 Місяць тому
Im big fan of the piston concept. Slosh leaves so much to chance and so much potential damage.
@JO-ui9fl Місяць тому
Pistons might be also useful for fuel transfer. If they don't want to use rotational force. Is rotational force the plan for fuel transfer?
@Mishn0 Місяць тому
That's been done but there's a significant weight penalty. Basically it's two tanks, one inside the other, that also result in less volume.
@just_archan Місяць тому
Additionally I will tell that due shape of piston there is penalty in structural integrity, and cryogenic fuel is a b...h. most materials that are used as seal don't like cryogenic. And those that can be in cryogenic, don't like standard temperatures. Same goes for other popular ideas like bladder. Cryogenic and volume is problematic. So either centrifugal forces, or acceleration is easiest way to do this. Centrifugal is cheaper as for fuel penalty.
@jeremytaylor3532 Місяць тому
Perhaps they could use some type of tank liner bladder. Possibly like those expandable space station modules. Or even just an aluminum foil liner like on a jiffy popcorn expandable top. As it has to withstand very cold temperatures.
@thebarkingmouse Місяць тому
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how they manage that role on such a massive vehicle because I don't think reaction wheels are going to do it. And even if they could, they'd have to be so massive you wouldn't want them on there. So a cold gas system or maybe the return of the hot gas system, I don't know. Maybe if you had tanks on the correct side that you could pump fuel and oxidizer into for reentry just so it has a more passive stability. Cheers from BCZ!
@thebarkingmouse Місяць тому
*roll Apologies for any grammar of spelling errors I was using voice dictation. I just saw that it made that mistake. There may be others.
@UncleKennysPlace Місяць тому
@@thebarkingmouse Click on the three little dots to the right of your post; you may have "edit" permissions, so that it will appear as if you got it right the first time.
@shanent5793 Місяць тому
Control moment gyros work well enough on the ISS. Starship could desaturate them by firing the raptors asymmetrically or gimbaled
@Mishn0 Місяць тому
I'm pretty sure reaction wheels are only practical in microgravity. There's no way they'd be useful during launch. Not enough force.
@dlewis8405 Місяць тому
Back in 2006 when ULA was formed I had never heard of SpaceX and my mind was blown by the images coming from Spirit and Opportunity.
@benjaminshropshire2900 Місяць тому
I wonder if the RCS freezing issue could be addressed by using pressure feed Meth-Ox hot gas thrusters? Basically run things at the same pressures, but mix and burn the boil-off gases to keep thing warm (any thrust improvement would be nice, but not necessarily the point). Some cute regenerative cooling tricks might even make the system mostly ambivalent to ingesting a feed of mixed gas/liquid by ensuring whatever reaches the valves will be boiled regardless of what it starts as. OTOH burning would result in water which could cause even worse ice issue than the current system is getting (presumably any freezing on the current system is methane or O2 ).
@take5th Місяць тому
Heating thruster nozzles with ribbon heaters may solve that problem?
@imconsequetau5275 28 днів тому
It's the O2 valves that freeze up with water and/or CO2 Ices. The nozzles are cooled with methane. I would prefer to totally eliminate these contaminants from the O2 regenerative gas system.
@rafita241 Місяць тому
Great video
@RagnarVoIarus Місяць тому
I had no idea Firefly was putting guns on their rockets… 👀 20:01 💪
@imconsequetau5275 28 днів тому
9:15 Vernier thrusters are possibly what will be used near the Lunar surface for HLS. I am also interested in the Stokes propulsion ring which uses a single set of pumps for all engines around the heatshield.
@Spherical_Cow Місяць тому
The first problem is that some of the tiles (over the seams between ring segments) have no pins at all but are just glued on. That needs to stop. The second problem is that the tile pins seem to just fix the tile's position rather than holding it down. Maybe using a one-way spring-loaded system where the tiles snap into place and then can only be removed by breaking them into pieces, would be a better approach.
@benjaminshropshire2900 Місяць тому
I wonder if they are using the static fire to check the heat tiles are correctly attached? Even if they get to the point where things stay on when done correctly, they will need a robust way to verify things are done correctly. (Either that or a robust way to repair tiles in space. Maybe WALL-E's friend TIE-L?)
@tomscott1159 Місяць тому
To replace wooden boat planks, a hollow drill bit is often used to free the plank at each screw by drilling out a plug which includes the screw. Once a tile is freed by a similar drill , the remaining plugs of tile material could be shattered easily enough, leaving only a set of naked pins ready to receive a new tile. With a jig containing a set of drill bits, I could see replacing a standard broken tile in just a few seconds.
@juliancrooks3031 Місяць тому
Maybe cover the entire ship with heat tiles?
@MadJustin7 Місяць тому
Glue works fine. The main difference between star ship and the space shuttle, was that the space shuttle had an in between layer that accounted for thermal expansion. And yes I know that the space shuttle was more prone to thermal expansion due to its aluminum frame but still, gluing the tiles straight to the ship is an odd choice.
@kenkahn138 Місяць тому
Perhaps they need an electromagnetic release for the tile pins ,,some sort of a ball and catch system -- external electro magnetic --removal/install tool,, works inside tiles and in orbit 😵💫
@billgilbride7972 Місяць тому
I see it as the Shake Test and an Engine Test. The only way to confirm tiles will stick, light it up. Replace the Lucy's and Goners. All ready for flight.
@timothyg967 Місяць тому
Fix with Flame Trench to damp sound waves
@mauricenorrisejr Місяць тому
The best way around this is to make larger puzzle type tiles where not only do they interlink with each other but to make larger molds or even one big tile for the whole ship with flaps and possibly the nose cone being the exception unless they carefully fit it over cone first like boot 👢. Have some key points where you lock 🔐 it down. It'll be large and customized, but then again, all of it is customized anyway 😊. Post appreciated.
@TsoLIt Місяць тому
woah hello.
@otpyrcralphpierre1742 Місяць тому
GO IFT4!
@Etheoma 16 днів тому
To be fair the space shuttle managed to get back once with damaged tiles, it was only because the place where the tiles were missing was steel rather than the overall body which was aluminium, also because the upper stage is mostly 1 big tank it's drag to weight ratio would be higher so it will slow down more quickly than the space shuttle, so likely Starship can survive a couple of missing tiles, the re-usablity would be shot though and they would have to scrap the whole upper stage, so it is important to sort this out still, but it's likely not going to be at the top of the list, just like making the craft completely reusable isn't at the top of the list atm.
@davecurtis8833 Місяць тому
Loved the thruster deep dive. Its certainly a challenge for spacex.
@Bluelagoonstudios Місяць тому
I noticed a podcast last week, where carbon-carbon plates were introduced. These plates can be as big as you want. They called it the heat shield tech for the 21st century. This guy works together with Skunk works. I was impressed with the possibilities of this new material. He told also, that legacy tech that works for years, shouldn't be tweaked. He spoke directly about the tiles from Space Ship. It was an interesting podcast with a NASA engineer, a CEO that makes the new tech and reviewed IFT3. Maybe Musk should contact the guy?
@bryanillenberg Місяць тому
Carbon-Carbon is fragile (STS-107)
@user-qt5xm2xp2f Місяць тому
It still has to be conformed to the tanks and somehow attached. I don't think anyone is debating if the tiles will do their job on reentry, only that they will still be attached to do their job. C-C may save weight. . .
@bryanillenberg Місяць тому
@@user-qt5xm2xp2f CC is roughly 6x as dense as hardened tiles, and while it can withstand higher temperatures, it is also ~50 times as conductive. So, you'd be multiplying the tiles mass by a factor of 300 if you replaced them with CC
@FailSpace2 29 днів тому
felix and the rest of the WAI team, thank you. you have made coverage of starship easy and understandable for everyone. we actually got to see IFT-3 in person, and your videos helped us understand what was going on. thanks guys!!
@Imagine_Beyond Місяць тому
I was so confused at first at 3:17 because I saw Ship 26 and a label saying S28
@acornfp5008 Місяць тому
Tile, Tiles Tiles... No tile is the best tile. Or how about; Robot tile fixing dog to repair tiles in space before reentry? If we fixed tiles in space would Columbia be in a museum? or My shower wouldn't work well without grout, grout the tiles? No tiles, even a plastic cup will not burn when filled with water. a interior cooled water jacket? I know 8bls a gal. or or, Flare the bottom of the ship with tiles, grid fins on top, fire engines and come in ass end first? If it were simple...I think SpaceX will solve it without tiles.
@cccaaa9034 Місяць тому
I can't help but think that there has to be a spray-on protective ceramic foam coating solution that could be developed for this. The spray could self-cure on reentry rather than in specialized ovens. If a piece breaks off the starship at some point, the empty spot can just be filled in with additional spray-on foam.
@guss0904 Місяць тому
Starship 28 be like: They see me rollin, They hatin ... 😅
@jim2386 Місяць тому
He’s so white and nerdy!
@cmilkau Місяць тому
You established a fast track! That was quick, amazing job!
@epicdaniel508 Місяць тому
12:27 ja!
@chrisweiss3904 Місяць тому
Ich auch!
@leeroychang Місяць тому
So it's Tim Dodd's fault starship failed then? 😂
@NeroontheGoon Місяць тому
It’s always Tim’s fault, no matter what! I just hope that when he performs his first spacewalk he doesn’t get any hydrazine propellant on his space suit, and as a result, he is not allowed back in the space craft, to float amidst the stars for infinity…and beyond!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@simonmedina8128 Місяць тому
YES NEW EPISODE
@normberg1347 Місяць тому
The roll induced in Ship 28's flight could also have been a result of the propellent transfer test that put the CG off what was expected.
@jamescobban857 Місяць тому
The transfer of over ten tons of propellant from the nose to the tail would make Starship very bottom heavy. In addition to the roll it seemed to be struggling to avoid entering tail first.
@allangibson8494 29 днів тому
The vehicle was tumbling from the moment the main engines shutdown. I don’t think the ullage thrusters were ever working.
@DinoFielenbach 29 днів тому
Regarding the heat tile issue, I've got an idea. Not sure if thats possible but here we go. I would apply some kind of resin type epoxy layer which hardens and keeps the tiles attached and in position for launch. During reentry the resin would burn up but hopefully hold long enough to guarantee the tiles stay in place and protect the ship until reentering the atmosphere.
@nosknut Місяць тому
Bruh 8 min after posting i need a life
@reitergaming2936 Місяць тому
Beat me by one min
@RaymondGomez-bh6ij Місяць тому
Life? What’s that
@michaeljohnathan9486 Місяць тому
Starship is life
@dillonbledsoe7680 Місяць тому
Space is life❤
@rafa9220 Місяць тому
Bruh 8 min after posting i already watched it twice
@danielemancini2547 29 днів тому
Thanks a lot for your videos and analysis. I am sure that Spacex will solve sooner or later all the issues. It is my personal opinion that the most important issue is the propellent boil off. This is a big constraint especially for long travels. I think that the use of Compressor can solve 3 tasks: propellent transfer (see LPG transfer in rail tanks), RCS cold gas and finally re-condense the vapor phase avoiding boil off. But to use it, there are 2 problem to solve : its cooling and lubrication.
@peterdallaway6102 Місяць тому
Brilliant information
@kensmith8832 Місяць тому
I am shocked to hear they are thinking of using thrusters! Thrusters are common sense and SpaceX has tossed that out the door. Flight 3 showed the problems with creating gravity with a spin. I am shocked anyone gave them the idea of using thrusters on the ship, as that was a free idea. I retired from being a COO with a background in engineering. This project makes me shake my head. One of the most common issues in engineering is the lack of walking in the footsteps of those that came before them. Engineers tend to toss out everything and redesign, costing a company millions, as they show they can design a wheel that looks similar to what we have used for thousands of years. Why would management allow this handicap to continue? Seems like Elon would know this trend and try to avoid these potholes. When will they start using insulation between the heat tiles and the extreme cold from the fuel? When we see this, we will know NASA's footsteps are being taken. Toxic ego is expensive!
@user-iz2oj8dd6j Місяць тому
Why not try something that will save costs per ship first? Just because something works better doesn't mean it's the best option for every single purpose, NASA makes taylor-made rockets and SpaceX makes standardized mass-production rockets; they have different goals.
@kensmith8832 Місяць тому
@@user-iz2oj8dd6j Shouldn't the goal be to take objects to space and return alive? Seems the goal is to prove they can build a better wheel, while using the most complex methods possible. Cheap doesn't mean better.
@Logan4661 Місяць тому
You have an engineering background and you're shocked that actual rocket scientists flight test prototype hardware? That seems odd to me. As far as walking in the footsteps, blah, blah, blah. SpaceX seems to be making quite a profitable business out of routinely doing what the footstep followers said was impossible just 10 years ago. In 2023 SpaceX had almost as many successful orbital launches, and put almost as much payload mass in space, as the rest of the world... COMBINED.
@oriontherealironman Місяць тому
It's not a bad idea to try something new or different. However, when you get hung up on trying to make it work instead of just moving on that's when it becomes a problem. Let's see what SpaceX does in response to this issue. Get stuck making it work? Or move on?
@Logan4661 Місяць тому
@@kensmith8832 The goal of flight testing prototypes is quite literally to figure out how to build a better wheel.
@mahmoodahmad1192 Місяць тому
First comment
@richlo8887 Місяць тому
🤡
@TravisRoth-kh2fe 28 днів тому
A thin sheet (perhaps 4or5 mm thick) of tungsten placed over the tiles could protect them from a5mospheric 7:35 buffeting during re-entry (the melting point of tungsten is over 6,000 degrees F).
@deltacx1059 Місяць тому
8:47 or just install a small heater on each bell and or around the bottleneck between the pipes/chamber and the bell.
@nandakumarnongmaithem6706 Місяць тому
The heat tiles should be laid as in fish scales, slightly overlapping each other for strength.
@kurtschatow2035 Місяць тому
Some point for the freezing problem. The standard solution for space application is just putting heat plates near the cold area. Thermal management for to cold is the easier part. Get rip off too much heat is challenging.
@fleuryr 29 днів тому
Great episode, cool info and bravo for all your precious work
@CLipka2373 29 днів тому
10:33 - Technically, strapping a couple of fire extinguishers to Starship would constitute classic cold gas thrusters (presuming CO2 extinguishers; if we'd be talking powder extinguishers, that would make it... cold solid fuel thrusters of sorts? Or rather cold hybrid thrusters I guess, since powder extinguishers use pressured gas to expel the powder...)
@rosedruid Місяць тому
OR electric heating of vents. Could even save power by having maneuvering periods where heating is active either preplanned for when they expect to correct alignment or X period of time in advance of a non urgent but unplanned maneuver. They could also make software that observes how thrusters are actually moving the ship and if a thruster isn’t resulting in ordered movements they could adapt and fire other thrusters to try and turn left by turning right 3 times or equivalent.
@eruiluvatar236 Місяць тому
I wonder if an electric heater would be a possibility for the ullage gas thrusters. There must already be some hefty batteries for the electric TVC and likely not that much energy is needed to defrost a thruster. It could also be used to increase the pressure in case it is a bit low.
@av_kovko Місяць тому
A heater system can be added to prevent cold gas engine valves from freezing.
@michaelsanchez7226 Місяць тому
You guys should make one of those hovering pens a starship hovering over the chopsticks ! 🤟🏻
@ricchamen6304 29 днів тому
I agree with you that the methalox thrusters meant for the moon should be installed and tested. 2 birds with one stone Right. But they have to stop that role occurring prior to re-entry. Keeping the heat tiles “Earths down”Then drop the Engines ground ward for their land burns.
@kkorff Місяць тому
RCS: Cold gas system. Heat critical components to prevent freezing blockage and put pressure regulators and buffer tanks into system to stabilize thrust pressures. Heating could be done with electric heaters or possibly minute amounts of O2 and methane to create heat by micro combustion, or hopefully just short of combustion, and hopefully using gas instead of liquid states, or maybe a hybrid.
@allangibson8494 29 днів тому
A catalytic combustion system could also be used. Basically an automotive catalytic converter in each thruster.
@gregoryblajian8951 Місяць тому
They already have several batteries onboard for the engine vectoring and for the Starlink system. Seems to me they could just wire up some heating elements and maybe a thermostat or two to each RCS thruster to prevent icing. Just saying that running electrical wiring to the thrusters would be significantly cheaper, less complex and easier a retrofit than any other solution. The thrusters do not need to maintain human comfortable temps just, a high enough temp to prevent oxygen or methane from freezing.
@Marc83Aus 29 днів тому
Just a note, the most commonly used thrusters are reaction thrusters like hydrazine, this is what apollo and the space shuttle used, the stock footage of apollo and the shuttle during discussion of SPACEx's cold gas system may be slightly deceptive.
@clarencehopkins7832 Місяць тому
Excellent stuff bro
@jameslmorehead 29 днів тому
Given the mass of the craft, a combination of hot and cold gas thrusters could be the most efficient. A single hot gas thruster with a plural of cold gas thrusters in one unit. The cold gas would be the primary thruster, with the hot gas activating when either more thrust is needed, or if the temperature of the cold thrusters drops too low. Siphoning some of the combustion heat to warm the entire thruster array would not be too complex.
@davidmiller8609 29 днів тому
How to stop the Roll? MORE COWBELL! You walked right into that one Felix! LOL!
@uuadad 24 дні тому
As far as the tiles disconnecting during a test. As you said, probably resonances with the ground equipment are to blame, but who knows? One way to address this would be to change the resonance frequencies for tiles that move too much. Some kind of spring perhaps that only acts when that is the case?
@deanc5000 Місяць тому
Maybe they can use a cold gas thruster system but with heated nozzles (and possibly piping) to prevent vent freezing and aid in the rapid vaporization of the cryo liquid when needed. The heat could come from the combustion of small amounts of a methane/oxygen mixture in a closed environment similar to how a diesel parking heater works. This would end up being a hybrid of hot gas/cold gas thrusters with the benefits of each.... Of course, there is another source of limitless free heat and that is the friction of re-entry itself. By extending a heat conductive "sail" from the cold gas thruster nozzles directly into the plasma stream of re-entry, the nozzles could be kept as hot as you want for free.
@Reazintful 27 днів тому
i think either they are going to figure out ullage thrusters, or they are going to still use ullage with cold or hot gas as a supporting system for fine control or corrective measure...probably the best way to still retain some of the mass savings from using ullage gas as a thruster, but still have something to support it when needed.
@briangman3 Місяць тому
Ps it is great to see your improvement I been watching you from the beginning! Truly exciting videos!
@dcavanau1021 Місяць тому
Thrusters: Follow Christopher Walken’s lead: “I need more cowbell!” 😂 Heatshield Tiles: maybe they could use the same attachment mechanism they use for Tesla Solar Roof Panels. They need to withstand small hurricane-force winds, right? 😂 Anteres: I’ve always heard it pronounced “Ann-tair-eeze” though that may simply be Felix’s pronunciation. Thank you, Felix. You rock!
@anjunaprojekt4698 23 дні тому
Cool, das du dich verraten hast, musste die Kulli Szene erst zwei mal spulen um alles zu Lesen. Mo von Senkrechstarter hatte das auch nie verraten....also hier mal i. Deiner Muttersprache: Immer sehr geil Informative Videos, sonst bekommt man in good old Germany ja kaum Infos, ausser man schaut Mo. Bitte macht Weiter so, ein Nerd aus Hamburg.😂😂😂😂❤
@scottbrown7849 29 днів тому
An awesome feat done by dedicated people. Respect - from England.
@joelweinert3580 Місяць тому
Shake testing the tiles might be semi-intended. And they iteratively improve everything,
@allangibson8494 29 днів тому
The launch 3 had a LOT of tiles shed during reentry. You could see them coming off in the video. If the vibration during test is separating them then reentry is even worse.
@xliquidflames 29 днів тому
I remember one of the original ideas for Starship, before anything was built, was to have the skin cooled by liquid that weeped from tiny holes in the skin. What was that called? Not perspiration cooling ...oh! Transpirtation cooling. It's like sweating but not. I don't remember why they abandoned that idea but the tiles are clearly not working, either. They are going to need to come up with a better way of attaching them or a whole new solution. Something else that isn't working is the launch pad. I don't see how they're ever going to get to the point of catching a booster and launching again within hours or minutes if the pad needs days or weeks of refurbishment and repairs between every launch. The way the pad is configured now is going to get destroyed every time they launch. Yes, the times have dropped between each launch but they're going to plateau somewhere around a few weeks where something significant always needs to be replaced every launch. And it's always something different.
@MichaelWDietrich Місяць тому
A Defroster Heating System for the RCS CGT would IMHO be the closest solution. Less energy and complexity than HGT needed and if not taking some battery with you (becausee you want to avoid additional weight), in space you have more than enough energy ressource from solar if you want to.
@arturoeugster7228 28 днів тому
The pitch-roll motion reason is EXACTLY explainable: It is a induced pitch maneuver about the intermediate principal axis of inertia, which is UNSTABLE, pitch rate and roll rate are coupled. This is Dynamics 101
@Maelthras Місяць тому
You could tell elon was kinda blown away and his mind was racing about putting the thrusters for the ship when asked that question. Rubbed his face and started designing it that second. pretty neat a question like that brought about an actual design change to improve the ship. I think the actual solution is heated valves. Would be incredibly easy just using electricity and a high resistance heating element to keep them freely moving. Also the thrusters could have a regulated chamber regardless of their start pressure so each venting could be fairly precise, but I'm sure spacex already thought of this...
@alexanderb.9084 Місяць тому
I was thinking about orbital refueling: Instead of taking the risk of a collision when refueling, you could refuel from the air like a KC 135 refuels a jet. less risky.
@JohnMichaelDay Місяць тому
Cool history on Delta. I worked Titian II, III & IV in the 1980's. Have you considered talking about Titian Rockets?
@young_quad_vet Місяць тому
I’m looking forward to see what the team comes up with for the solution!
@Humanwitpenismale Місяць тому
i think the next ss to launch should have like 5 different type of systems and try one at a time to see which one suits them best...... I do think they should start over on the tanks with the piston idea. Just seems way easier
@dizbeliefdanbackhouse5807 27 днів тому
Fit test and approve engines before fitting the heat shield tiles. But it's a good way to flush out weak points before that. Trial by 🔥🔥🔥
@starrisk 27 днів тому
Arguably, engine test after tile installation will indicate which tiles are less securely attached
@glenkeating7333 Місяць тому
Another nice video Felix. I subscribed when your channel first started and I watch your videos because you talk specifically about the things that I like to know. Keep up the great work.
@richarddoyle689 29 днів тому
Electical heating of Starship cold gas thrusters makes the most sense. They would allow reliable thruster use after long periods in space.
@Mity_Mo 29 днів тому
Requires expansion tanks, multiple valves, controls and has multiple failure points. A very complex and unreliable design.
@Bbenkosky Місяць тому
A few tiles missing isn't as bad as rolling.... controls are vital.
@allangibson8494 29 днів тому
Reentry backwards and upside down tends to be catastrophic…
@gloriahutchinson5066 27 днів тому
In its later flights, I believe the space shuttle used a thermal blanket approach for a portion of its heat shield.
@trashman1613 Місяць тому
I would dip the ship in a slurry of ceramic. Or pit the service of the ship where the tiles goes then I would make a ceramic glue or slurry that could be trowel on the service (where pits are) so as to affix the tiles to. Thus creating a mechanical bond.
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