Which one is it though, I urgently need to know.

@@jaro6985 Both were everywhere in the ‘80s, and nobody cared how deadly they were…

That’s what AC means.

I think it's powdered uranium.

no you didn't

Or asbestos!

@@JimWhitaker proceeds to rub in it with his fingers

JW cracks me up with these witty remarks... you just have to love the guy👍

That's not sy cable, It's called ships braided cable. Often used in atex areas. Is much more robust than sy.

LAPP Cables state in their SY cable data sheet: "The braid of galvanized steel-wires is an additional mechanical protection". They also state "If using outdoors, observe the indicated temperature range and use with UV protection".

You are correct Greg. Primary to reduce the effects of Electromagnetic interference.

@@jurassicsparks5220 iirc Some VFD manufacturers say to earth the brading at one end for EMC shielding.

SY is not for screening if you need screened cable try CY or one of many multi core screened cables not screen should only be connected to ground ,0v or input at one end Note power cables for inverters/or vfds ,the outer shielding braid should be connected to ground at both ends

@@rogergregory5981 Wow, how wrong can you be. Copper against some high frequencies is ok, but medium frequencies such as 10s of kHz copper is pointless. 10s to 100khz this steel braiding is perfect, its literally in the description of EMC, Electro Magnetic..., tell me how magnetic is copper? Medium to high range frequencies can have a tendency to introduce currents, so connecting both ends of the SY braid and using an internal earth can give rise to circulating ground currents. (you have just built a transformer) Low frequency, you are probably ok to earth both ends, it also can be used as extra earthing to bring down the resistance of the fault current path. Never ever leave it disconnected from earth, its an extraneous conductive part of the installation. And no matter what you think, it does give some mechanical protection. Not to be used outside in sunlight though.

Was called simplex in my area

It's nuts how it's classed as "control wiring" but CEF sell it in sizes up to 35mm². What on earth needs 135A "control" current?

There's some outside at my work lol.

Trying to get hold of 70mm^2 120V black insulated twin flex. Any suggestions ;)

Even though it's technically not armored, the protection isn't insignificant. It's great for extension cables or long leads where idiots on the shop floor will repeatedly pinch it with a pallet truck. Never seen one get cut by hand tools by accident, the only time I've seen one shear is with a forklift ripping through it and taking a motor with it.

Your right James doesn't carry the BS kitemark. But should have the European CE mark, if your going to buy SY cable make sure it's got the ce mark on it and buy the cable from a reputable electrical wholesaler.

@@sparkygazza Glad you said that, I have seen some from china and its a joke, massive gaps in the screening, and only a few strands. The CE rated stuff is near 100% fill, no gaps and loads of strands.

You really think that A: AC guys would be watching this and B: Would be bothered it’s the wrong cable

Lapp say "If using outdoors, observe the indicated temperature range and use with UV protection".

Dang it, I thought we had discovered a free source of cocaine :(

Its probably silicone powder nowadays.

Not worth a quick snort then? 👃

As long as the conductor will carry the current and the insulation cope with the voltage - who cares ?

@@millomweb Well not you apparently!

What is it that makes SY more suitable that standard 6242Y twin & earth?

@@westinthewest Used extensively on factory floors, for the interconnection between the switchgear, and the machine. Think of it as a braided flex, rather than for static installations.

Yeah this stuff is in most factories I’ve been in. Never seen anyone use a proper gland for it though

@@uhhhhh262 that's down to the individual, up to them to terminate it correctly.

@@sparkygazza I suppose?

That's mainly what it's intended for.

The ones from Igus are energy chain rated, usually thousands of bending operations, SY is for a few bends during installation, bending radius is often smaller than SWA.

The grey shielded version is CY, the grey unshielded version is YY.

"three phase equipment like my lathe" You show me yours.......

I think you'll find it was a case of... be a HVAC 'engineer' (if you can honestly use that description alongside HVAC!) ... or flip burgers when they left college?[Though flipping burgers does require a bit of skill] 😂

​@@Sparks1Plumbers0HVAC technician. Let's get the terminology right..They are not engineers.

yes you are correct on this one, John is mistaken, the braiding on SY is for mechanical protection hence why its made of steel not copper. John is right that is definately is not armoured or suitable for outdoor usage though.

@@mawoodmain If the braid is for mechanical protection, there's no need to earth it then. If the braid is to form an earthed metallic covering as mentioned in regulation 522.6.204, then it needs to comply with BS 5467, BS 6724, BS 7846, BS 8436, or BS 60702-1. John says SY cable does not satisfy any of these standards so there's no point in earthing it. What sort of external influence is this steel braid particulary suitable for?

I wouldn't rely on the braid for a cpc, but I would ensure it is bonded to earth just as I would the armour of an swa

It's probably NYY cable.

@@robertbritton656 The covering feels rubbery. One of them is 3 core providing mains out to the compressor, the other is 4 core bringing mains back from the compressor to the indoor half of the mini split (within a foot of where the power came from in the first place but apparently the power goes to outside first and then back in) and the 4th core is the control link between the two or so the chap that installed it told me.

@@owensmith7530 That sound like H07 then.

Is the insulation rated for 415 ?

@@millomweb yes

Can be used, provide it's not somewhere that requires mechanical protection.

VDE standards are for Germany only, they are not harmonised or of any real use outside of Germany. VDE0250 is a whole suite of individual standards covering a wide variety of different cables, so 'VDE0250' on it's own doesn't mean anything. www.vde-verlag.de/quicksearch/?searchterm=0250

It could be used outside, but would require mechanical protection in many situations and can't be used underground either. It's usually a poor choice, much better alternatives exist.

Thanks. It was used in the past at my house to power outdoor lights, buried underground.. I believe this was ok in the 16th edition regulations?

Couldn't agree more. Iv asked those questions many times

The cable is suitable in some applications. This is why it is available.

@@BULLEAD does it have a bs number? What types of applications?

@@gbelectricks Taken from Eland cables website statement: Statement on the use of SY, CY and YY cables in the UK SY, CY and YY cables are flexible control cables, designed for measurement and control in equipment such as assembly and production lines. They have finely stranded, flexible Class 5 copper conductors, and the SY and CY variants have a steel or copper braid layer. These cables are widely used in the UK and Europe yet are not manufactured to a designated standard - anyone claiming conformance to BS EN 50525-2-11 is doing so incorrectly as the insulation thickness doesn’t meet the minimum requirements and this standard does not include allowance for a steel or copper braid. Confusion has arisen in the market around the applications these control cables can be used for. It has been suggested that these cables are not ‘fit-for-purpose’ without defining the ‘purpose’. For the avoidance of doubt, SY, CY & YY cables are compliant when used appropriately in UK applications for control functions under BS EN 60204.

@@BULLEAD so basically they are shit under heavy load but ok for signalling🥴 personally, I’d be inclined to listen to the osg, and I’d rather steer clear of the stuff 🤷‍♂️

Why don't designers go for H07 rubber cable if they want flexibility? Even standard PVC flex would be more pliable and resistant to vibration as it doesn't have the pointless braided covering.

What glands are those that you were using with the SY?

For a fixed socket on a wall, a suitable SWA gland and a suitable size hole in the enclosure. If you mean a trailing socket, SWA is entirely inappropriate for that use, HO7 flex would be a more usual choice.

@@jwflame OK so H07 for outdoor use then over the SY cable to a 32a command outlet

An SY gland, designed specifically for use with SY cable.

@@jwflame thanks. I've also seen this used for AC a few times without understanding the reason.

You can use some swa glands. Brands like CMP and the Hawke universal are often used in atex environments where braided cable is the norm.

NYY-J can be a good option

@@alexacb63 NYY-J is solid core, so not a flex cable.

They had probably tried SWA once and hated it!

Steel & PVC. Also CY which is Copper and PVC, and YY which is all PVC.

Wholesalers, too, in my experience. At a minimum they don't bother to stock them, though sell plenty of the cable...

Because this cable had no British standard. And shouldn't even be sold here.

@@arcadia1701e What is cable type in British standard for cabling from VFD to motor?

@@peto22 wouldn't rubber h07rn-f cable be what you are after ? Super durable, available in many core configs and DO have a BS rating.

@@arcadia1701e I was thinking EMC shielding, h07rn-f has no EMC shield witch is requirement in EU with VFD:s. I was thinking that BS standard must have some altenative to CY?

I'm a fan of H07RN-F and H05RN-F too. The sheath is neoprene, which if it's good enough for diver's suits, should be good enough for rainwater in a garden. n.b. Doncaster Tuff Sheath doesn't technically conform to a BS standard, as it's only manufactured "generally" to the standard, which the IET doesn't recognise.

Should be talc, but I gather asbestos can be a contaminant.

Yep

Yes

@@martinwinfield2935 I have changed it now to 3 lots of 1.5mm together in to a 4 way wago connector. It's only get a little bit hot and smoky so I thought a small fan in the box.