14:21 where the actual answer is to thunderbolt or usb4

Thank you VERY MUCH for this helpful interview. 🙏 With so much conflicting "sales" information out there, we need more insight like this!🙏

Garry, this was amazing. Thank you so much

Super enjoyed the interview! 😁

Really good! Thank you, Gary.

Thoroughly enjoyed this video! Thank you!

An excellent video. Very informative .... Thank you!

Thanks for this! Extremely helpful. It is all starting to make sense now...

I remember around '93 or '94 telling my friends not to buy a PC unless it had USB ports. In those days it was easy to understand. But now it's so complex I can't even advise my friends about what to buy, in terms of connectors: there are so many different kinds of USB. Connectors are so complicated that I advise people to forget about connectors and go wireless instead. Performance isn't as important as ease of use for many people.

Thanks Gary, learnt a lot and explains all the ports on my Mini M1 Mac, 'Thunderbolt 4' cables are the ones to purchase, loving it so far with Davinci, so fast

Wow! I needed this info. Sometime this afternoon into later in the evening ill be receiving my new MacBook Air M-1 and I was fretting over this Thunderbolt connection thing. Everything so far has been USB C or lightning running my now-dead 2016 MBP 15” as well as my iPhone. Whew! Thank you, thank you, thank you for this video

great chat, no surprise that OWC is doing so well with such a pleasant, intelligent person leading (could say the same about garyexplains)

WOW. Was almost ready to give up on understanding technology and buy some cheap ass KVM solution for my TB2 & TB3 - macs.. Now with the OWC TB4 dock I'm EXCITED!!!! Amazing interview guys.

You are best Gary... I get answers to all my CPU related and other questions

Gary and Larry on a stream talking about usb and thunderbolt with gleam teaching us to chose thunderbolt 4 above all because that's the one for all

Great interview!

This was very informative, thanks!

What a great video. As confusing as the usb spec is, this sent me deep diving as I didn’t realize how complicated it was. But a super fun discovery. Also, I had no idea that Thunderbolt was open sourced! Wild. Tons of reading ahead. Aside: Larry is such a pleasant guest! 👏🏾

Transition music was way too loud. People around me were quite annoyed and I had to switch off.

Watching this video while working, and I have checked my Teams couple of times now for notifications lol

Very informative dialogue! Thanks for posting it

great video and very useful!

For my audio interface I use a Thunderbold 3 to Thunderbold 2 Adapter, to Firewire 800 Adapter, to Firewire 400 Cable 🙈 (And it works.)

I had already read this information, but I did enjoy this content a lot

Prof. Gary, you have a DAMN good view from your window!

Lookin blazed bro. Nice

Very interesting interview. Bought few OWC products in the past and I like they approach in filling some niche in external devices for Mac. I have a Mac mini M1 and there are problems with UsbC speed. All my devices (that work full speed on older Macs) .. that will be 10gbits... go only at 5 gibbets on M1. Might this be a case for new Tb4 cables? If you check online there are many people with the same issue.

Great interview. Please never make the music that loud again! :-D I'd be happy with no music, way happier than the explosive interruptions.

You can add 2nd to 6th external display using $40 DisplayLink dongles, I think M1 has ample overhead to support such extra DisplayLink displays with no issue. I am still confused, does OWC provide any way to connect a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 device with 2000MB/s bandwidth through one of their Thunderbolt docks, or do any other company have that? Does the M1 not support 2000MB/s external SSD right now due USB4 support? You didn't talk about the dual TB3 Bus that are supported in the M1, that is a huge thing actually, and OWC is the one to have explained that on their website.. it means M1 devices have the same bandwidth out with 2 ports as Intel Macbooks have with 4 ports, those 4 intel ports share 2 TB3 buses only.

Where do I buy a TB 4 cable?

OWC is a high class organization with excellent high quality products. I own, use and love a ton of their stuff. Great interview. Thanks, Gary.

very educational, he is the authority on TB stuff for sure. Thank you Gary and Larry sir.

Excellent vid. Thanks.

i have a amd4 rysen 9 , will usb 4 get as good as thunderbolt in power and data transfer? will they sell usb 4 pcie cards? and can thunderbolt pci cards work on AMD4 for sale now. i love my thgunderbolt on my laptop.

Hey Garry, Next time you interview could you get the other person to record the audio and send it over to you? That way it is better quality and less drop outs. Great and informative, cheers mate

Never have a problem with a TB 4 cable until TB5 and USB 5 comes out. I’ve got big boxes of various “standard” cables going back decades.

@Gary Explains i would have liked to hear more about pros/cons of getting i7 10th gen laptop now vs i7 11th gen based laptop for a premium. The 11th gen has new thunderbolt built in the core that is not in the 10th gen...

USB was implemented in the i430 series of chipset that came out 1997 for Socket 7 Intel Pentiums but the software wasn't ready. There was an OEM version of Windows 95 that came with USB drivers but it was not stable and most hardware only work on Windows 98 and up. Even 98 didn't ship with generic drivers like MSC to access USB drives without drivers.

Can you do the speedtestG on m1 macbook air?

This clarifies a lot! Sadly, I just searched for "thunderbolt 4 cable" on amazon and it is a long list of "thunderbolt 3". What most people don't understand is marketing restrictions in a technical standard. I have an M1 MBA and I absolutely agree -they must be throttling the CPU with software! Nothing runs that fast at such a crazy low power without the ability to run much faster but hotter.

Are Apple Thunderbolt 3 USB-C 0.8 m and Thunderbolt 3 pro 2 meter cable same besides their length difference & braided cable?

Another aspect I would like discussed is how using the JHL8440 Thunderbolt Controller, a Dock or Peripheral can either work as a Thunderbolt 4 device or USB4 device.

Will the DisplayLink software work on the OWC Thunderbolt dock?

My 2018 Dell G7 has a thunderbolt 3 port and even though I haven’t used it, it factored into me choosing this machine to future proof it.

Gary, you're wonderful

Hey garry can you please make videos on networking specially transport layer ,3 way handshake

Crazy to see a face to a brand you have been buying for so long

Thanks a lot Garry for this video ! I was curious like you about this subject and here are my few questions : Why Larry talks about Thunderbolt 3 for Apple M1 computers beside the term of Thunderbolt 4 for PC ? I would understand that all new computers from today (Mac and PC) have Thunderbolt 3 plug sockets and the operating systems of them are now compatible with new Thunderbolt 4 cables. Am-I OK ? Is Big Sur on all Mac Intel working with Thunderbolt 4 cables too ? Please confirm ! Best Regards from France.

hey professor! waiting for SD888 reference device vs A14 bionic speed test g for days... please make it happen

He looks like Tom Cruise. Just needs sunglasses. 😎

Larry and Gary explain ©:

What usb4 affect the Audio?

is the background the fedora 33 default wallpaper

My m1 has a different connector called thunderbolt 4? it is not the same as lightning or thunderbolt 3. does your hub have the proper cable for he new M1? I have used a Apple adaptor from 4 to 3. it works but very slowly.

I wonder why thunderbolt 4 didn't extent the lanes for external gpus (is still x4 right?, Not even x8, let alone x16). I thought it might be due to not been enough people interested but it seems there is market for eGPUs... Well, at least this implementation with usb 4 might mean thunderbolt 3 on gaming laptops with ryzen (as the thunderbolt 3 controller is gonna be in the usb controller, hopefully).

Larry from OWC reminds me of the computer guy who was the architect of the brain-integrated chip from the old UKposts series H+ from 8 or 10 years ago Also, I really appreciate that he doesn't start every response with the word "so"

So glad you did this video and also spoke with Larry from OWC. I’ve been interested in Thunderbolt for quite a while now, following it since it was ‘Light Peak’ and still sporting a 2011 MacBook Air 11” which I think was one of the first Macs with Thunderbolt. Since it only had USB 2.0 (which yes was a little frustrating from Apple since PCs were already starting to include USB 3 ports for about 12~18 months although the amount of peripherals was few), I bought myself an OWC Thunderbolt 2 dock back in 2016 to basically help me extend my Air’s useful life and has served me bloody well! OWC has definitely been one of my go-to’s with the only thing stopping me purchasing more has been international shipping prices and the Australian Dollar exchange rate ☺️ I was miffed about no specific “Thunderbolt 4” designation on the M1 Macs, but knew this was for a reason and although I thought at first maybe it’s so Apple can let Intel launch their TB4 products without stealing their thunder(bolt) I also thought, nah something’s up here, and so subsequently following all the M1 news and videos, found out that it’s essentially Thunderbolt 3 and was quite devastated that it does not support more external displays as otherwise I would’ve pounced! Happy enough that at least it adds USB4. One other concerning thing though is apparently USB data transfer speeds have been quite poor with M1 Macs, and not sure where that currently stands but basically I’ve already resigned myself to waiting until a ‘proper’ MacBook Pro releases to upgrade and no doubt it’ll have an ‘M1X’ or something and maybe then Thunderbolt 4 and 4x ports🤞🏻 Good to hear clarification from Larry around TB4 cables and also how TB4 peripherals will work with USB-C host computers. I believe it should’ve been the case with existing TB3 peripherals with USB4 hosts, but I think because USB4 does not mandate all features, it’s possible that situation doesn’t work?

Would love to buy some TB4 cables, but so far as I can see, nobody sells them yet. Any ETA?

All the music is too loud. Bring the volume on them down about 25-30%

8:24 I legit thought I opened up a casually explained video

Thunderbolt 4 is basically Thunderbolt 3 with all the options made into requirements, and I believe some minor changes on the OS stack side. Macs have always fully implemented Thunderbolt specs - OEM computer makers less so so you never knew what you were getting (unless you added a full-featured Thunderbolt card). Big Sur should fully integrate Thunderbolt 4 specs (so things like the Thunderbolt hub work now). IIRC, the actual transport protocol is exactly the same. Intel and Apple codeveloped Thunderbolt - Apple has had a high speed external bus for ages - first with SCSI, then Firewire (IEEE-1394), and now with Thunderbolt. I think it was Apple who came up with the idea for Thunderbolt and sold it to Intel - they wanted a lot of stack processing on-chip (in the CPU) to reduce overhead, so the idea of shutting Apple out of Thunderbolt is not something Intel could really do. Apple always prefers isochronous real-time data transfer - Intel prefers host-based transfer stacks (I wonder why?) - so people like audio creatives preferred Firewire because successful transfer isn't dependent on CPU load.

Well i’m more confused than before... so the usb part is not usb 4 but only 3.1 gen 2? What the heck? At least the thunderbolt part was clear.

wish OWC fixed the new Envoy Express- TB enclsoure- great idea but too many problems and crashes VMNe drives

why does the apple M1 thunderbolt/usb 4 not support egpu? isn't the whole point of a high bandwidth(comparatively) external port like thunderbolt so that people can access higher performance solutions such as an external gpu?

What about Thunderbolt networking? Connect multiple computers together instead of using 10G Ethernet.

I was on a chat with customer support at OWC today and couldn’t believe there is not a switch to go back and forth between two macs on one old Apple Thunderbolt Display. For all the years that display has been around no one has ever had the need to run more than one Mac at the same time?

Wow! Too much info! You got to simplify those to simple people like me, PlEaSe 😁

What's the name of the dock you mentioned by OWC?

I really want Gary and Rene to have a conversation

*GARY!!!* *Good evening Professor!* *Good evening fellow classmates!* *Stay safe out there everyone the worst of 2020 is almost over!*

Can not wait until the move to Thunderbolt 4 / USB4 as the standard port. Why is this important? It might be just a pipe dream of mine in that using the USB4 standard, and not having to pay Intel that device manufactures will be able to bring out USB4 standards based devices that will be cost competitive.

*Lary and Gary Explain

Awesome

What I love about M1 MBs are the touchscreen, pen support, 2 in 1 design, 180 degree screen, tons of ports, OLED screens, face recognition, upgradability, repairability... Oh wait, now I know why MBs still only have 7-8% market share and laptop mag rated Apple 10th out of 11 laptop makers... lol

Larry explains

18:35 ..fair enough, the Thunderbolt Dock is a nice piece of kit, but here am I typing on a late 2013 13" Retina MacBook Pro which is by no means too big nor heavy, equipped with HDMI, 2 x TB2, 2 x USB3,analog stereo 3.5mm (which people still want)...no clunky awkward dock. I think Apple has wrongly pursued a wrong Holy Grail of let's make it ever smaller. Like we used to be with cellphones a while back...remember?

I guess Apple was the first to introduce USB. How quickly we forget about the time before USB was around back when you used to hook your keyboard and mouse to PS/2 and your gaming joy stick to the specialized serial-esque port on your sound card, your printer on a parallel port...

Guys,what about the slower speeds of external ssd write and read speeds,compared to an intel mac?The same external ssd is slower on an m1 mac.

Thunderbolt 3 is Open Sourced by Intel and it is available for everyone by the name of "USB 4" .

Great info! So, once again, it took Thunderbolt to fix the dumbass mistakes the USB standards made. I'm probably several years away now from laptop/desktop purchases and whatnot, but I'm glad to hear at least someone is trying to solve this mess... replacing all cables, peripherals, computers and whatnot to Thunderbolt 4 compatibility seems the best bet then, for the future that is. This year, I made the jump and replaced several electronics in the house so that we can get more portable, use the telecomference stuff, and solve several problems we had with aging desktops, smartphones and tablets. Unfortunately, because Brazil is always several steps behind the curve, we now have one laptop that is USB-C 3.1 gen 1 I think, one that has USB-C 3.1 gen 2, tablets and smartphones are all USB-C but I dunno what version it is, only I think they all support fastcharging 3, I got USB charger hubs that have at least one USB 3 port that supports fastcharging 3 or 4, plus an USB-C PD port, and so on. I really wanted to get all Thunderbolt 3 compatible laptop but those are absurdly expensive here, no can do. And then I also had to pay extra for Anker external batteries and chargers just to be sure they were compatible with the standards listed... some quirk of importation taxes, for some reason they are way more expensive in comparison to other brands. But then you have Nintendo Switch which uses some weird form of USB-C that is not totally compatible, so that one needed a separate expensive charger, and I'm kinda afraid to test external batteries with it, because Nintendo had to bork the whole thing. Cables are another mess... I have a bunch of the magsafe style ones because of how practical they are to use, but I never know how well they'll work, what they'll really support, etc. And then a bunch of USB-C to USB A cables that came with several different products that you just don't know how they'll behave. This plus a whole ungodly mess of stuff that didn't work, that already broke, that works for one thing but not for another.... early on, I really thought USB-C was coming to solve all that. The problems that already existed on USB 2. Man, how wrong I was. It only became worse...

Nice no time stamps 👌

Tb is tb is tb, until it isn’t: hp’s egpu box Omen only works with tb3. No backwards compatibility to tb2 or tb1.

So can someone fill me in? Is it using thunderbolt 4 or thunderbolt 3 ports on the new m1 MacBooks?

On a Mac you don't have to worry about the thunderbolt standards. Of course, because it can't support it! One cable to dual monitor setups are pretty common now a days, though not on a new Mac.

Great video, Larry, but the music is a bit annoying and too loud

Would love to see you have Larry back often to discuss his Thunderbolt peripherals and also Mac releases/future M1X technology etc. 👍🏻

Looks like that little SSD NAS behind him.

i know it's so confusing i think USB standards guys have been high when naming and changing the naming. They should get new people to rename the correct way. 3.0 should be 5Gbps 3.1 should be 10 Gbps and 3.2 should be 20 Gbps. Thunderbolt 4 should be Thunderbolt 3.1 not 4 since its not new tech or 3+ but of course its not that simple.

First - I'm only going to refer to USB speeds by the actual connection speed, because USB naming has gotten so ridiculous since USB 3.1, using the right nomenclature is a royal pain. My M1 Mac Mini is very flaky with its USB ports. In theory, both "Type C" ports should be "USB 4", and support USB at 10 Gb/s (in addition to Thunderbolt at 40 Gb/s.) But I have two different 10 Gb/s compatible USB-C SSDs (not Thunderbolt, just USB, a Samsung T5 and a Samsung T7,) and one connects at 10 Gb/s just fine, but the other only ever connects at 5 Gb/s. And the theoretically-10Gb/s-connected one never gets faster speed than 5 Gb/s. If I plug in to a Thunderbolt 3 dock, and use the USB ports on that dock, I get greater than 5 Gb/s on both SSDs. If I plug in to my Intel MacBook Pro, I get greater than 5 Gb/s on both SSDs. (And, semi-obviously, both claim to connect at 10 Gb/s on the Intel system.) Apple needs to work on their USB support. (Of course, I also find it VERY strange that they say the two ports are "Thunderbolt / USB 4", yet in the "what the ports support" it lists Thunderbolt 3 and "USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)". So, wait... Are they USB 4, or are they only USB 3.1 Gen 2? They *ARE* different things. USB 4 is more than just "USB 3.1 Gen 2 plus Thunderbolt". To claim USB 4 support, the system must support USB 3.1 Gen 2's 10 Gb/s as well as USB 4-native 20 Gb/s. Apple doesn't even try to claim the supposedly-required 20 Gb/s.

Just buy Thunderbolt 4? In Australia, 2ft USB-C cables: Thunderbolt 2 AU$50; Thunderbolt 3 AU$100; Thunderbolt 4 AU$200

RIP Gary :’(

Really? No link to OWC? Isn't that a bit bad form?

wait the new mac _don't_ have usb4? did i hear that right?

Would be nice to credit your interviewee in the description of this video.

Two USB ports are not acceptable. Even the four on the previous Gen was pushing it.

Oh the irony of buying a slim 2020 Apple laptop and then having to plug a dock onto it in order to access those basic features that an only slightly less slim, 5 year old Apple laptop offered as standard. Long live the 2015 MBP! I won't even get into Mojave vs. Big Suk.

Hey Garry, why is Larry explaining...? :p

12:50 - 13:50 sums the point of thunderbolt 4 up perfectly xD nvm 16:02 is even beter xDD

Dude, respect. Good topic, but I can't listen to it cuz your voice levels and transition levels are too different and it's a pain when the transition comes. Please compress, or limit the overall audio after your edit. Consistent audio is more important than slick transitions.

And no one is selling Thunderbolt 4 cables! Lol