I wasn't expecting it to be at this point for another year.

As for the ARM cores I am not shocked to be honest as it was going to be primarily driver discovery/reverse engineering. Here is hoping they get the GPU cores unlocked in Asahi. I really want to find an old m1 mac mini just to play with it. I already miss Mac OS X so it might be on the future buy list anyway.

It is expected. If not faster, it is unusual. Linux uses a monolithic kernel while the macOS uses a hybrid kernel. There is part micro-kernel in the macOS kernel. Linux chooses monolithic kernel because it is faster.

By the way, macOS and windows NT use the hybrid kernel approach because they found out that pure micro-kernel is just too slow, unacceptable.

@@catchnkill I like Mac os x. I used A lot of nix learning 3d in the 90s and moving to Mac OS X from next was nice. I quit using Mac around 2012 when they started making weird hardware decisions (like non removable cable on studio display.) At a meeting in 2004 (at awdc) they said they were leaving ppc not due to inferior design but pr esp. IBMs next ppc concept based on power5 was smt3 but ran at a lower clock. Most consumers didn't understand cycle to cycle comparisons. They promised this was a stopgap as future mobile devices were to be arm and there was promising Risc Tech being developed. Later this turned out to be phones with arm, and risc v starting development in 2010. Jobs death in 2011 really altered the companies road map. I would like a Mac os x machine but I do to much to get locked into their hardware. Art, coding, gaming, vms, etc. I am hoping to find a cheap Mac mini m1 lol

Heh, it's cheaper to buy a $699 Mac mini than a Raspberry Pi if you can't buy a Raspberry Pi to begin with!

$200-$250 for rpi4... Yeah, I'm not paying that

@@JeffGeerling I can't wait for cheap PC clones using the Samsung clone of the Apple M1 that I'm sure they are developing. Imagine for $300 instead !

@@monad_tcp The SQ2 is basically the current competitor, and it’s really not that great since it’s so hard to develop for from what I can see. Windows is sluggish, and I don’t think Linux boots (but I haven’t checked).

@@JeffGeerling An Odroid-XU4 SBC from Hardkernel outruns an RPi4, costs $53 and is in-stock. Makes your $750 ARM dev board comparison seem a little... off.

That geohot guy?

@@ateyaba7253 No. Different person.

I didn’t know marcan had anything to do with the switch. I remember him from the Wii days tho… exciting times as a teen

That’s the beauty of version control and separate code bases for each architecture. But what you said was true none the less.

@@j777111able Could you elaborate? I've yet to see any advantage, or beauty, from separate arch specific code bases (for anything where it's feasible to avoid).

Very optimistic to think software vendors care about software correctness

@@spicynoodle7419 I've worked for one that does, or at least care about fixing bugs before they cause users problems. (Including the problem of not getting new features in time because a latent bug started to break things.)

I hate MacOS, but I love how fast and power efficient the M1 is. I would love to see a Windows on Arm running on Apple Silicon become a thing. I know quite a few people who can't yet upgrade to Apple Silicon devices because they need the dual boot to Windows functionality that their current computer offers.

@@WarrenGarabrandt I think the main problem with windows on arm is Microsoft, they even don't have a native Visual Studio arm or other professional application for the windows on arm, and it's runs 64 bits program so slow I even didn't want to use it at all

@@csring2278 that can't be true, because the surface pro x is custom arm silicon, and windows and office both run on it just fine. Also, there's a version of Windows 10 iot that runs on arm, it's even available for raspberry pi.

@@WarrenGarabrandt if you try to do something really need some performance on surface Pro x you will get what I mean, remember a fact is that Windows RT also can run office and some Microsoft X86 app too

But I am guessing when the M1 based Macs get a few refreshes they wil lock down the older ones to force you to buy new ones.

Somewhat... if you don't need any of the missing features it's not bad at all. I mean, even the sleep issues are par for the course with Linux on many laptops 🤪

Open software on closed hardware, why would you do this to yourself?

@@JeffGeerling Do you mean that laptops have sleep issues or their owners do? xD

@@spicynoodle7419 on top of that, hardware that's locked to have 0 repairabilty. I guess it could be a fun little project, but I'd never run this in a serious way.

@@KentSpain85 yea exactly

Any weekend spent on building a new server is a good weekend :D

If it has a T2 chip, Linux can’t access internal storage.

Won't be that "super powerful" in a decade.

@@UncleKennysPlace compared to my raspberry pi 4 cluster everything is super powerful :)

@@UncleKennysPlace Depends on what you do with it. As Jeff pointed out in the video, many home server tasks will do just fine and the average user should be okay as well given the most brutal software to run on consumer PCs these days often is a web browser with heavy websites like UKposts, any online office suite, Discord and the likes.

hell yeah!

@@MegaManNeo Jeff said in a recent video about K8s on a pi that, "if you can make it run fast on a pi, it will run fast on anything." I have found this to be very true. I am thinking of getting a Mac mini just to use as a build computer now. cross compile for rpi on amd64 is painfully slow.

YellowDog! Those were the days.

What is the difference between Vaulwarden and Bitwarden? I thought the only difference is that Vaulwarden is maintained by the community

@@morta5788 It's written in Rust, the API is compatible with Bitwarden, but since it's written from scratch and I'm guessing Rust made it easy to run / compile on ARM.

Is that Oracle cloud? If so how is security on those? I believe the Amazon ARM chips have issues with TLS. FAST just not read for certain programs.

You can try qemu-user-x86_64, which works the same way as Rosetta, except you don't get the translation acceleration, albeit it has a lot of incompatiblilities

Box86 is what you're looking for....

Well, thanks for taking the time :)

D'oh! You're right.

Ordered one...!

@@ronaldgadget good luck! 👍

It shipped

it is now sitting on my desk...

after only 90 minutes: running Asahi! The only snag: I needed to update MacOs first to 12.3 before the Asahi installer would work

More like 9-10 years of updates, especially for the upgraded M1 editions like M1 Pro which might get even more, but I do agree

@@papervws yes that would be a nice change from apple

@@joecan I think you're thinking about their iOS devices which tend to get 5-6 years (although latest iOS 15 supports 7 year old devices). However Catalina was compatible with 8 year old macbooks and that was generally what was to be expected in terms of software update lifetime even in 2012.

@@papervws Yes, I agree. Also, another unintended side effect of Linux on the M? Apple platform "might" be the exploration of an ARM line from the likes AMD and Intel. It would be interesting to see for sure.

Someone announce 600W GPU and you go buy 3W GPU. This is point of PC.

You can force it to use all x86 stuff, and the arm problem disappears, but you probably lose some performance. Your build performance was all thrown away by npm already, so you have nothing to lose.

So, it's Microsoft that stopped supporting windows on Mac?

@@RPEpsilon-lc4vm Actually, yes. If Microsoft wants to port Windows to run native on Apple silicon the can do it. Apple has not done anything to prohibit this. There are already Linux distributions running on Apple silicon, but obviously a lot of work needs to happen to make this usable for the average end user.

@@ST-ry7lr Do you think that will ever happen? And in less than 10 years?

@@RPEpsilon-lc4vm You can easily run Windows ARM on Apple silicon with Parallels right now, so we know the binaries run without any recompiling. The only thing Parallels has done is emulate the bios and write the driver interfaces. And the apps actually run faster and the experience is quite acceptable, unlike running the OS on the current native chips from Microsoft/Qualcomm. I’m reasonably sure that Microsoft engineers already have Windows running on Apple silicon in their labs. But I think they are so determined compete with Apple and make their own chips they won’t ever make it available. Thankfully, for the consumer, Microsoft’s strategy of moving everything to the cloud greatly diminishes the need to be running Windows for most users, so it might ultimately become a moot issue.

@@ST-ry7lr The only problem I have with Parallels, is the cost (as a casual civilian it‘s bot that cheap). It got myself an old Thinkpad T430s to dual boot Win10 and Mint for the most urgent stuff next to my daily MBA M1. However I can imagine more and more people leaving Windows entirely (as I did) as their daily driver for Linux or Mac, as Win11 does alienate a lot of people I know.

but i expect that adding the now missing drivers will slow the system down ... by how much ... however for server use great ...

Yeah, I've run Fedora on an older macbook for years, and it is much faster then iOS

Mac os doesn't let u use all power of these chips

@@ronaldgadget you can’t run iOS native on MacBooks

I too have run and right now run Linux (Ubuntu in my case) on MacBook pros and Minis. Definitely faster in my case for both Macs.

The difference was much bigger a few years ago, before Apple updated their filesystem. It is okay now, where 5 years ago, it was just terrible.

Prefer kde over gnome

This is good to hear, especially how it sounds like it works well on older hardware. I know people say that KDE is lighter these days, but the old reputation of being one of the heavier desktops takes time to shake. I started on KDE back with OpenSUSE about a decade ago, but since moved to other DEs. I have been curious to try KDE again after hearing experiences like yours and seeing some of the features included. So far, I've just played around in Distrotest, but I want to try a proper install when I get the chance.

Always been KDE for me. Occasionally I’ll try Gnome etc. but it just never sticks and actually I’ve found KDE to be far more performant. Often it goes something like this: I’ll install KDE out of preference, find I want more performance so I try Gnome and find it’s worse!

I wish Apple allowed us to control our iPads too... would be awesome to be able to boot iPad OS when I need a tablet for watching Netflix or browsing the web, then macOS when I want to do actual work.

@@leocompany sure do. look up postmarketOS. dual booting linux and android on the same device, or completely replacing the main OS with linux. several other linux distros out there that would likely work as well.

@@leocompany you can even run Linux in Android.

​@@JeffGeerling Im sure that when a need arises for it, some dude who is far smarter than I, can figure out a safe way to boot other OSs on ipads without bricking it. Asahi linux should work fairly well out of the box in terms of performance and the display itself, so the only hardware drivers that would need to be worked out are the single port, speakers, camera, mic, powerbutton and volume buttons. Dont forget about touch either!

Apple engineers most likely love their product, but then there is the marketing department, the sales department...

@@DankoStojanovic As far as I know Apple has always been surprisingly open to other OSes on its computers. I mean, it makes sense if you get customers that would have never bought a Mac for the OS. As much as I dislike the company their new ARM stuff is really exciting, as long as they don't try to lock it down.

The engineers at Apple might find it cool to see hackers doing unusual things with their hardware, and even try to help, in various official or unofficial ways. But then word gets through to upper-level beancounters or lawyers or somebody in management who reckons “this does not fit in with our corporate vision for the product”. And so the banhammer comes down.

That’s pretty arrogant to think that Apple engineers are somehow “2nd tier developers”. The OSes support way more stuff that Linux supports. Btw, the Apple Silicon team and Rosetta2 team sure seems pretty motivated to me

@@RunForPeace-hk1cu No one here implied Apple engineers are 2nd tier. Some comments assume they are less motivated, not less capable.

Unfortunately the vulkan api support could be very flaky

I think Jeff is both trying to use cutting edge technology but also ARM is a game changer for many hobbyist affairs. The architecture is more energy-efficient, making it both greater for environment, energy bills and also a lot quieter. Home servers and home labs can benefit greatly from that, cue why Jeff is so interested in running proxmox, for example, on Asahi. It would be great to have powerful home servers that costs almost nothing to run 24/7 and also don't need huge space and refrigeration to keep running for a long time.

Solid-Run's boards all seem to be certified. I have an older MacchiatoBIN that I'm planning on testing soon, and I think it may be one of the earliest consumer-available certified boards.

Solid Run seems to be using Cortex A-72 cores at relatively pedestrian 2GHz in most or all of their more powerful boards. Per Core, that's barely faster than a Raspberry Pi 4. Compared to the M1 that's going to be severely lacking in single-thread power and probably attain multithreaded parity at best despite double the number of cores.

I've tried two different times to post a message with notes about the Honeycomb board (I have one), but each time the comment has vanished. How odd.

@@Steamrick Well it does have 16 cores. I did some digging and found a benchmark that put it in Ryzen 2XXX or i5 territory on multithreaded load.

@@vinnytube1001 Sure, but how many workloads actually use 16 cores? In most cases you'll be limited by the individual speed of one or a few cores.

why not. The problem with MacOS is that its kernel is a Two Headed monster of XNU Unix and NextStep that does POSIX and XNU at the same time, lots of data structures that have to be maintained synchronized because duplication and indirection.

Other problem is that Linux already had support for ARM for a long time, so there's more optimization, which is one of the reasons.

Linux is overall faster because its stack depth inside the kernel is very tight, while Windows uses a lot of indirections and virtual calls, which makes it more or less always 10% slower than Linux on the same machine. Which usually doesn't matter much for I/O bound tasks either way, for ex, moving tons of data by shared paging which uses the hardware directly have almost the same performance (I don't get where people say that Linux is so much faster, must be the User Interface). Windows is like a Cake of 3 operating systems on top of each other, if you tap to the inner ones, they are amazingly fast (IO completion ports, for ex), but the user interface usually runs on top of lots of abstractions. I bet the same happens with OSX, lots of abstractions and indirections and virtual calls which takes some computing time (the x86 is really, really good at predicting those, which makes the performance of those cakes of abstractions a bit better, while ARM needs a good compiler infrastructure to take care of it)

Because there are people who prefer Linux over both Windows and MacOS.

Ha, no. I wish!

@@JeffGeerling You've nothing to lose by asking them; go for it!

The already allow it on their Mac's, I'm really hoping this forces them to open the bootloader on mobile devices, not idea if that's in scope though.

For Asahi it will be better. One Distro and only a few devices. So in not that much time we could see very good compatibility.

More than likely just different libraries

Many times, but not ever native on an M1 with Apple Silicon. There are many things that Linux runs faster, but there's also a lot that runs faster on macOS and Windows. It all depends on your workflow. For me, the ideal would be a hybrid that lets me run containers native on Linux, while still running Final Cut Pro and other media apps that aren't supported on Linux.

@@JeffGeerling People have their preferences and reasons to use certain software.. that being said I've enjoyed using Davinci Resolve on Linux =)

@@digitalspecter Blackmagic does some great work-I use some of their hardware in my production workflow!

The power of Keynote!