FYI for those wondering, we pre-recorded this episode because Adam is on a much-deserved vacation this week 🏝 Hope you enjoy! Hugo is a massive wealth of knowledge. Regularly scheduled news programming will be back next week 🫡

I like that Hugo referenced previous waveform episodes. Not sure if he’s a regular viewer or just good at doing interview prep, but either way it made for a really good conversation. Normally I’m not a big fan of guests on the podcast, but he really rocked it

Shout out to the editor who made distortion when Hugo was explaining it at 18:24

We all had headphone wires, running under our shirts, like 5 years ago. All of the sudden we have no idea how to handle a wire

30:32 Marques: nice 👁️👀👁️

This episode made me realize that while I like guests as bonus episodes, I love the pure crazy madness of the original crew.

What an amazing episode! Hugo's perspective on many things has been great to listen to, and maan, his reactions were often so pure! When Adam played the air horn sound effect, when the guys were talking about David playing Dota for a hot second or when Marques noticed the "very unclear" pun... You can see how passionate for the whole subject Hugo is and it's great. Thanks to the whole WVFRM team for this!

18:27 nice editing touch!!!!

Andrew isn't here coz he's busy listening to Taylor Swift's new album me thinks

I’ve watched the last two f1 grand prixes in AVP on the Vroom app. It’s not years away, it works perfectly now with as many streams as I want, completely live. Main feed, data screens, a couple driver feeds with their radio feeds, the 3D track illustration. It’s so good.

I almost thought today wasn't Friday

43:53 the F1 experience would be wild..imagine having an experience from Lewis's helmet camera

Love the more in depth talk about the VR industry as whole. Super interesting interview!

Hugo's perspective was awesome to hear

This was such an incredibly interesting interview! Was glued to it the whole time.

Hugo is Brazilian, and man, his English is great! As a Brazilian, I hope I get to that level of fluency.

YES!!!! Friggin love that y’all talked about DQ (Disney Quest) that was my first ever experience of VR was DQ

took me a while to realize hugo is brazilian, his english is impeccable but his name is very local so i google it and confirmed haha, good to know we have a fellow brazilian mind leading in the tech space

Xiaomi user here. Nice seeing Hugo again. Wish he would have stayed in the company longer but based on his resume, he seems to have the need to move on at the 4 year mark every time :D

take a shot every time David says "paradigm"

I think David has a good point about Full Immersion VR re: courtside experiences. The novelty will be good at first, but the reality is that the curated viewing you get currently, gives you a much better idea of whats going on in the game, and people will prefer the classic experience long term.

I love this guy. Ben following him since I/O 2011. Never seen anyone like him

So awesome to see this!! Hugo is so articulate and it was such great conversation to listen to! (:

Will watch this one after I read the blog, so hugely appreciated this one!

Was the intro music a different part of the song than the usual?

Marques’s “nice” made my day 😂

Did David just learn the word Paradigm before this epsiode? 😂

I think the point about live sport being one of the first things to really get impacted by these headsets is true, but one thing they didn’t seem to discuss is solving how you can share this experience with others. Because I think that will be the biggest drawback of it, and initially I think it will be amazing but also something you can only really experience alone.

I'm confused. Quest ALREADY does live sports. It already does courtside nba games. And when they release a higher end headset they will already have Apple beat with courtside sports

Love the way Marques interviews because he’s been interviewed by so many people.

I haven't clicked anything this fast in a long time. Hugo Barra is a fucking legend!

Hugo is a super guest. Would love to hear more from him as vr develops

Feels like the step from Hololens to Vision Pro is the same as from normal AirPods to AirPods Pro. Transparency will get better over time, so we will get the better product in the end. I don't see that we will get AR Headsets, that transform into good VR Headsets, but we already have good VR Headsets that can turn into good AR Headsets.

*LOVE* the interview formats. 👏

One of the best discussions I have seen on this topic

42:40 I've been watching NBA games all this season in vr court side for free on Quest 2. It already exists.

8:11 oooh, “gaze & pinch” I totally misheard the first time

There is a 5 year old video by the German UKpostsr AlexiBexi, which beautifully coveres this topic from its times viewpoint. It even features an interview with Tim Cook about the future of AR. I strongly recommend you to put on the auto subtitles and enjoy this beautiful video. In my opinion it adds a nice perspective on the topic to the view.

I was lucky enough to get to sit court-side at a NBA game many years ago and it is a horrible place to actually watch a game from ... BUT the experience was amazing. Its more about the everything that your body notices that is not visual and audible. The presence of being so close to the players, cheer leaders, feeling of how you could just reach out and touch a player, etc I think would be very hard to truly reproduce. I think from visual and audio you could get 80%-90% of the experience to be worth it, but hard to image it being the same. Like when you see a solar eclipse in person, climb a mountain for sunrise, etc. There is something about being there that makes it hard to imagine reproducing digitally (currently at least).

I appreciate that these videos will serve as a historical point of reference for technology and what we expected at this point in time. I now realize that regardless of what amazing tech is created we’ll continue to want faster, lighter, more durable, cheaper, tech. How about lets just smell the flowers while they’re in bloom 🌺

It's nice to have an expert opinion on these things. And I appreciate his hot takes and agree with some of them

Ready Player One is awesome both the film and the book. I am looking forward to when the tech like you send reach a point like smart glasses getting closer to VR/AR headsets or the opposite. I want Sword Art Online, SAO: Ordinal Scale type of tech. I think the Tilt5 glasses are great or maybe Microsoft Hololenses. The Valve Steam Index headset was great especially with the grip controllers to grab things. I started my VR experience in the early nineties at the county fair with this huge heavy headset with a heavy long wire and wire controller handset inside a large plastic ring and a low polygon game. The Apple Vision Pro and the whole industry will need to focus on sports, music, and games to move forward and grow.

Phenomenal episode. Really enjoyed his perspective.

I totally agree with him about putting basically all the components that you can into an external enclosure that is tethered to the headset itself. I thought apple would maybe try that with their first headset but it was an interesting take to hear why he thinks they only put the battery external for the first version.

What a great episode! Thank you.

Great, great guest! Hugo was super fun to listen to :)

18:00 iirc apple's pancake optical stack places the virtual image (magnified display) slightly out of focus. this is what creates the very slight blur (reducing the sde). on the other hand, meta's quest pro/3 optical stack are made to be as clear as possible. this makes it so you can see (very fine) SDE on the quest devices... but this also makes the quest clearer in certain scenarios even when compared to the vision pro's superior on-paper resolution (~34ppd vs ~25 on the quest 3). this is what KGontech talked about

The virtual boy getting absolutely snubbed as one of the first VR experiences when Barra mentioned the Alladin ride

Hugo barra single handedly made xiaomi the top mobile company of india..the way he launched mobiles and mantained community is excellent..a big fan of him.. bought xiaomi redmi note3 based on his words

The movie is good. But Ready Player One, the book, is so much better. (There's a dude who produced a whole audio book version on UKposts with sound effects and all).

He was such a cool guy :) I like how clear it was that he was a huge fan of you guys. Kept referencing past videos and podcasts, like he personally knew you all. Lol

NBA has been broadcasting live VR games all season. Center court and courtside. It is awesome.

I think they will have 2 versions. 1 u get all the cameras in front of you like a multi screen(any format ball, wall. Whatever). 2 they get a full court (might not be live right away) using multiple cameras to generate 2k u can freecam in VR (any seat u want, any player u want, first person, 3rd person, sky box freecam)

It's good to know that others are also thinking about live sports, for I've been pondering the same forever.

The frustrating thing about this comparison is that there is very little overlap between the devices, except that you put both on your face. Most of it is software, so it's stuff that meta could have done this whole time, but they went with this stupid room for everything, rather than spawning a window, checking your mail, then dismissing it. So you go to the menu room, go to the MS Office room, then go to the menu room, then go to the netflix room, etc. Multitasking might be too much for the meta processors, or there could be some other technical limitation, but this is just not intuitive/easy. Apple's implementation just make sense. I use the thing all the time. Did my taxes on it this year while listening to music. My quest pro just sits. Meta's passthrough always looks like UFO footage, as well. It's telling that when you record video of what you're seeing, it replaces the actual passthrough with footage from the external camera directly, which looks cleaner.

That last option of additional rental units on the side of the main house home is very common in subsaharan Africa. But everyone who uses those rentals doesn’t wanna use them, they just can’t afford bigger spaces. These small spaces come with many problems… from sickness due to confined spaces to poor sanitation and management of utilities. They don’t solve problems, they just help manage a situation for a short time.

I think the dude is spot on about sports. If I got to see the Seahawks from a center seat in the stadium that is normally gonna be in the $2-3K anyway, I might as well get a headset!

That was a good episode, but I cannot be as excited as you. I like tech, like you, but there are cool things that I can integrate in my life and cool things that are just demos. For example, I love Formula 1 and can imagine an immersive experience being in the paddock or the grandstands. I can imagine a big screen and a virtual map on my coffee table showing the live positions of the cars. Nice! But I can’t imagine doing this with my wife besides me, as we normally do. I can’t imagine watching the race without seeing her face, her expressions, talking to each other while looking in the eyes. I can’t imagine the experience without drinking and eating something. Soon I’ll have a baby to take care, how to do that with a massive VR ? I can’t imagine how I would enjoy an immersive experience without all these other things. I also don’t see it as a replacement for going to the event, or even bringing the event experience home, missing seeing the people around, feeling the excitement in everyone’s faces, getting to hang out in the nearby bar or restaurant, with maybe some charm of a different culture. I can’t imagine the engine sound being as loud, as raw and as impactful without me worrying that the volume is too high and I should lower it. The sport video stream is so much less than the live event, and being at home is also so much more fun than experiencing it alone in my virtual world. Question, do you really prefer to watch a basketball match by yourself in Vision Pro or to see it in a big quality TV, maybe an iPad with some stats in the coffee table, a handful of friends with you, your favourite drink and snack? If the idea is to bring the live event home, forget it, it’s never going to be as good as being there just because all of these other things.

thank you for that live sports hot take. I‘m waiting for it for years now!!!

Loved the Q&A however there is one outstanding question I have that never seems to get asked. When do you see a time when one of the VR / AR companies makes a headset to replace their office? Working from home is a great concept and it allows all those buildings to be used for other things other than work spaces, it reduces the energy conception, elevates traffic... but it disincentivizes collaboration, you don't know your team... I hoped to see Apple Vision address this and essentially when you put on your headset you're in your space in the office. You see everyone and everyone sees you. You can hold meetings or walk over to someone and ask them a question. It blends the work from home and the work in office. Apple Vision brought a lot of future concepts to the table but did so with a half baked design. No one wants to wear the Vision Pro for 8-10 hours a day, they'd love the addition of gestures but they want to keep their keyboard and mouse for productivity. If not Apple who do you see going in that direction of making their AR / VR headset a place for employees to sit at in their home office and have it feel like the company workspace?

shoutout to hugo barra-you’re very knowledgable.

Someone please reply, where can I find the music at the beginning

Wait! Recognize him! I used to work at Walt Disney World in Florida. There was an experimental VR Aladdin’s Magic Carpet ride in a backroom at an EPCOT pavilion. I went to the presentation several times hoping to get to ride but never did… but I remember him. He was there!

Great interview. Keep it going guys 🔥

yooooo 4 people on waveform (not including the other 2 goats Adam and Ellis), love this pod man

I don't know how much Microsoft has worked on Hololens for the past couple of years but I do find it odd that it's not even mentioned when talking about the "new paradigm" that Apple has created.

Let's go! I was waiting for this

New and improved camera for the podcast?

Watching now :)

43:43 F1 With Vision Pro is amazing it could add RedBull Drone, Helmet View 🔥

You have forgotten something in this video that the product has only been released in the USA. Additionally to say that no one is talking about the product that only exists in one market they just rolled out Spatial Personas and Spatial Sharing and this was big news!

Moving everything outside of the headset that can be offloaded... interesting idea Maybe that would be the difference between people wanting to wear it for an hour vs an 8 hour work day. I just want to have standalone AR/VR glasses that work as well as the vision pro with all-day battery. I hope to see that one day.

Before watching this video I suddenly realized that we already have almost all the technology to make a full fledged vr headset from ready player one.

Mkbhd should give the Varjo line a try, that seems to be the top of the line vr/xr headset within the same cost bracket of the apple vision

Coolest VR live sports implementation could be watching from the sky cam during an NFL game 🤔

Counterpoint to Shopify, loading spices onto cart dramatically increases your chance of meeting a mystical wolf spirit from zero to there's a chance.

i kinda agree with not calling it a VR headset and I do think the spatial computing headset is a more accurate term (see Oblong Technologies)

So thoughts of the compact lens form factor?

32 minute mark ... i think in the 90s the "tether" was called a PAN (Personal Area Network) and most attempts involved a Chewbacca-like belt with batteries and modules (they were the computers) ... more about Wearables back then, but same idea

So glad he pulled out the Steam AR headset. They look like came right out of Cyberpunk.

Yay for the shoutout to Silicon Graphics. 1993-2001

damn I love this podcast

Marques's microphone went from black to red back to black back to red back to black. Also, I much prefer the red microphone. Marques bring it back, please! 😂

My family and I did the SF green room where you sit in a green room on a block and act like your flying on a carpet its pretty cool. Was around like 2006.

Who edited the podcast and added those pixel effects at 18:20? Good job

Great podcast - but I absolutely *loved* the IMAX 3D HFR version of Avatar 2. Really really wish there was a way to rewatch it that wasn't limited to the Vision Pro.

Personally I couldn’t disagree more with saying storytelling isn’t going to work for VR and spatial computing on Vision Apple, we at RiVR have used it for awareness education in stereo 180. From Knife crime awareness to showing the impact Anti social behaviour. If that can work, so can storytelling in entertainment. Sports will be a killer feature, but I feel like with top tear IP, immersive video can take you behind the scenes, like extras back in the DVD days.

RE 25:00 One strong reason more developers aren’t on visionOS-aside from others-is because it has been hard to develop for both technically and even business wise (if conservative) in the intervening months between announcement and launch. If you have an iPadOS app built with SwiftUI then it is an easy path to deploy to visionOS BUT then you have to maintain it once real;eased, Developer Labs are great but feedback loop on that is slower vs having a device in lab. Dev hardware requests are very very scarce my understanding. Also worth noting spatial computing is a new paradigm for most developers to design for especially with Volumes and Immersive apps. If you are a Unity developer-assuming you have a VR app on another platform-it STILL isn’t straightforward or an easy answer. There are in-between circumstances engineering wise but my point is the real clock should be considered to have begun when launched in the United States. Which is still the only country it is available at.

Wait there is a black and white version on mbk?

The real challenge with live sports is going to be getting broadcast rights, but man, if they could nail that it would be a huge win even without the VR aspect. Right now, if you want to get All The Games for your fave team in big sports, you've gotta subscribe to several different, expensive services, to a point that VP's price tag isn't even that wild even if that's the only thing you're getting it for.

Swiping between desktops works fine in Vision Pro so even if I could make my desktops their own display I’d take that over just one Mac display

Great episode!

22:42 Marques is doing the forward slash at the right direction. Head to GCN Show for reference

s/o for the video distortion when discussing the screen-door effect

I can't see using Vision Pro for purposes that can be done by existing devices. You folks said that about Humane AI. The selling point should be tasks that can't be done by any of your existing devices. The sporting events idea is a good start. I didn't think using it for something like Final Cut at work would be useful, but doing the same thing on a plane where all you need is a keyboard and mouse, I think that might be pretty useful.

David what is your dota2 MMR?

Great interview

All great information however I fail to see the use for this in current society from a consumer perspective, I was a fortunate first time tester of Google Glasses and that had potential but Vision Pro … size of a pair of Oakley’s. More AR than VR.

About the Piano Vision kinda app not being on Vision Pro. They have Garage Band on IPhones and IPads. Why can't they make a special version of it for the Vision Pro?

*It's hilarious watching them conceptualize a future VR product that's lighter, cheaper, and does more things. Meta made it years ago.*