Got to love an actual alt-history video and not a history vid with 2mins of alt-history at the end.

3:34 Byzantine Anatolia: "Thank you Sassanids, you freed us from the Caliphate!" Sassanids: "Oh I wouldn't say freed, more like under new management..."

The biggest criticism of mine would be the assumption that Rome continuously had competent, or "better than absolutely insane" emperors in this alt timeline.

I think you forgotten the fact that the majority of the grain in the Roman Empire came from Egypt. There will be many more large famines, as we’ve seen causes a lot of assassinations.

Interesting and well thought out but I have a few criticisms: 1. If The West didn’t fall, I seriously doubt the East would fall, there was to many ingrained advantages the the East had 2. I think you allow to have the west maintaining to much land, I could see a Redoubt forming around Italy, Tunisia, Libya, Dalmatia, Southern France and the islands 3. I can’t imagine the Arabs being able to take and hold the east with west Rome still existing, I could see a Justinian style reconquest after the disintegration of the eastern Roman Empire and attack when all three of the east are weak But this is just my critique great video!!!!

If I were to have one critique of this video, it would be naming the republic Latinia instead of The Second Roman Republic

I find it hard to believe the Western Roman Empire would remain so stable for so long. One would assume it would behave somewhat similarily to China, where it would colapse into huge civil wars every couple of centuries, and then sucessor states attempt to reunify it.

I've been looking for a good Western Roman Empire alternate history for a while, so thanks a lot! My only real criticism is I think it's kind of silly that Rome would rebrand itself as Latinia. Surely by this point everyone would be so thoroughly Romanized that they'd never give up the name, and would just go back to being the Roman Republic.

Funny how Poland got pushed to parts where Lithuania was

Neatling alt hist/alt future videos give me another reason to wake up in the morning

Honestly the East was too well positioned to just die like the Western Empire fell. The West honestly could have survived in a reduced form like the East later did. The Franks though would be a major rival for the west like how the Bulgarians were for the Eastern Empire. The Sassanids even in otl while conquering parts of the East were severely overstretched. They couldn’t hold such lands for so long.

Amazing Alternate History timeline video btw :)

This Alt-History has been my curiosity since I heard about Rome. Thanks.

Ive always thought about this idea and wondered... great video!

Beautiful maps as always :-)

Outstanding! I loved your interesting, speculative alternate history.

Much better scenario for 1800-1900

Really great video. I'am excited to see more.

Dude, this is sooo underrated! I've never seen such a detailed video! (Also how did poland developed so far east? I don't think you mentioned it and I couldn't find a reason)

holy shit I've been trying to find a similar scenario for AGES, thank you!

Great scenario, but I have two criticisms. First Rome wouldnt just rename itself Latinia, they would call themselves something like the second roman republic. Second, with a strong Rome and a Sassanid empire that isnt weakened by the war against the Byzantines, there is no way Islam is able to expand like this, they would propably be driven back to the Arab peninsula and completely die out within a century at most

babe wake up, neatling uploaded yet another GOATED video

The idea of the western part outright conquering stuff from the east only makes sense if you think the Western/Eastern Roman Empires were different states in competition with eachother, which is false. The split was purely to help with the administration of the empire. Until the fall of the west, it was still just one Roman Empire, but with two different centers of administration...

Neatling, only you know what will happen next, please continue with this story!

surprisingly good, subscribed in the first couple minutes. Tbh I was expecting a trashy slideshow.

Really neat alternate history!

This reads exactly like an alternate 769 AD start for Crusader Kings II !

Simply incredible, well done.

Excellent vid

Great video❤🎉 also, what if napoleon never existed? Would the HRE still exist to this day?

What if germany’s economy somehow grew to the same extent as japan’s?

I’ve been waiting for this kind of scenario for quite a while

This is pretty cool, and very well done. One question, though; how did the Islamic caliphates survive in Egypt and the Levant? In this scenario, the Byzantine systems had become corrupted and disappeared before they arrived, meaning they would lack that "head start" to form a stable empire. Plus, the border in North Africa between the Fatimid and Roman Empire seem hard to defend, for either side. I think the odds of a heavily Christianized, and stable, Western Roman Empire, seeing another religion conquer the "holy land" (And, what they perceived, to be rightful Roman land), in addition to the regions being extremely rich, economically, and *not* hating them are very slim. Now, would they win? That's another question (I'd argue yes, as in this scenario they're essentially just Egypt with some Arabian holdings). Either way, Rome would probably we *way* more active of a power in the Western Med. Side note: How did the West reform to retain stability? My favorite method's always been a Senate-Elected successor, stronger constitution, and a loyal Officer Corps. (I would also bet that the printing press would be invented far earlier, as Senatorial campaigns require a lot of writing)

This was a lot of fun. I will probably edit or mod a CK3 scenario just to play that.

Excellent alt hist!

Very Nice video keep it up!👍

Will there be videos where they will tell about the history on the map, and not about alternative history?

Great video! I would love it if you remake the what if eatern rome survived in this style and depth

FInally some Centuries Spanning Alt-Hist, and with that goodness of Stats for the Alternate World, and With having Few Centuries of still centralized State would certainly Make Industrial Revolution come Faster, Either Way It was super Enjoyable so thank you for the Hard Work. And Man Seeing Germany be so different Looking and Poland really is weird but i loved it none the less.

As a Florensian, we are the true successor state of Rome.

This must be the timeline majorian was never betrayed and aurelian wasn't assassinated

Loved your video. I would propose that the Mt. Lebanon area would be organized into rump state, as it was in our world, playing off the major powers against each other. Such a state would have the sea to the west. The Lebanese and Anti-Lebanese Mountains to the East, the environs of Antioch to the North and Mt. Hebron

This is a good video by virtue of Norway retaining its possessions in Bohuslan, Jamtland, the North Sea & the Kola peninsula

This Alternative history video actually makes sense to me, its so well made!

Also one big critique, the eastern Roman Empire survived but went on a slow decline, yet the western Roman Empire never goes on this slow decline

Amazing in every way

Great video Neatling I'm not your editor you can do you want with your channel but I have a few ideas if you haven't already thought of them. What if both western and eastern Rome fell what if the Mongol empire never existed what if the bronze age collapse never happened what if goliath killed David what if ww1 never happened what if the Europeans partitioned china in the nineteenth century like they did Africa what if the Americas where never discovered just a couple of ideas

I personally feel things would be a bit different than what you described, though thats part of the wonders of Alt-History, everyone could have different views on outcomes. Like I don't really see The Western Roman Emprie staying that big for that long. I would imagine that the british isles would end up out of the empire and be more of a blend of celtic and scandinavian. Alongside more land would be lost around the Netherlands and Luxembourg. Also I feel with a version of enlightenment and revoloutionary thought there would be more breakaway states in Latinia.

I really appreciate this video for several reasons. It's very well-thought-out and focuses on the wider world instead of just Rome. However, two things I disagree with are: 1. Arab Expansion: I think you hit the nail on the head with Sassanian expansion, as the Sassanian always wanted to recreate the old Achaemenid Persian Empire, however if the east collapsed, it would not have led to the disastrous wars which would have led to the power vacuum which was the catalyst for Muslim expansion. Without the Byzantine-Sassanian wars, Islam would likely spread more gradually or would stay within Arabia altogether. 2. Early Renaissance: With a quicker collapse of the east, we would see Persia preserve Greek cities like Alexandria, and we would also see an exodus of Greeks into the Roman Empire. In our timeline, one of the causes of the Renaissance was the influx of Greek ideas into Italy after the fall of Constantinople, and with the likely preservation of classical works by the Sassanians, we might see a much more rapidly advancing civilization not just in Rome but in Western Eurasia altogether, which would have unforseen consequences on European imperialism, if imperialism were to still occur of course. Overall, a great video, I just couldn't resist putting in my two cents!

I've got a question can you make a scenario with what if the macedonian Empire survived

I disagree with the slavery part of the video. By the late Roman empire slavery was already being faze out. And i don't see the possibility of a transatlantic slave trade. The Portuguese learned of the slave trade from the arabs but in this timeline they are weaker so that is unlikely to happen. Because there isn't an arab slave trade. That also significantly changes the history of africa.

Love this video

Can you bring the world's map from Some of Harry Turtledove's books?

Powers rise and fall, but Rome remain constant. I love this sentence

1:17 what is that big water lake right above Gibraltar? I looked on google maps and it wasn't there.

I would like to see a 'What if the Achaemenids Came Back' after the death of Alexander. The last living Achaemenid dynasty members was Amestris Achaemenid and her sons who were rulers out of the city of Heraclea Pontica.

"In the midst of battle, when chaos reigns and fear grips the heart, remember this: the true battlefield lies within oneself. Conquer the doubts, the temptations of weakness, and the tumult of emotions. For it is not the external foe that defines victory, but the inner strength and resilience of the warrior's spirit." - Marcus Aurelius

It's better the east that survived and its a stain on European history that they were too divided to help them in their last moments

I've a question. Would the Baltic lands really be conquered by Germanic and Slavic peoples in this timeline, considering even the Teutonic Order failed?

What if east germany absorbed west germany?

Very cool, I had not thought about the changes caused by a stronger Sassanid and was not expecting you to go as far down the line as colonisation, a colonial Rome would be a very interesting idea.

Very good video

An interesting idea, but I feel you missed one major point: The Black Death. That would likely have shaken things up in the Empire.

I also think this isnt a crazy scenario, the East was often the first ones to get the brunt of the invasions, they just couldn't go far due to reforms that happened when it came to the fortified cities, and Constantinople of course. The West was just an easier target and so that's where people went. Not to mention the Huns(and goths) took the wealth out of the East, the smaller tribes only had one place to go.

I think the fact that most of the original colonial powers never rise in this universe is insane

Great video. Though i think industrialisation and such technological advancements would have come much earlier. Take note: rome was already practicing an early form of industrial manufacturing with small factories to produce refined goods like dye and potted fish, etc. I though it was very interesting that the anglo-saxons still managed to become a single entity in this scenario. Good watch.

Refreshing to see an alt history generous to Persia

4:34 Milan became so prosperous that in the the 700s they have not one but TWO Duomos! Way before the completion of the actual one in the late XIX century. Thus creating the neogothic style 1000 years before our timeline

What if the Holy Roman Empire never existed?

There’d probably be no England, France, Spain, or Portugal. Considering that the collapse of the western portion of the empire allowed those countries to be established.

Can someone tell me the name of the music playing in the video in the minute 4:25 ? Thank you

I love how it ended up being 10 times more advabced than east was in our time line

I love that this video actually creates an alternate timeline rather than just saying "I can't accurately predict this because it is so different" like thats the whole point of alternate history, its not supposed to be accurate or similar to today's timeline.

Good video, but one small suggestion is to maybe switch up country naming convention a little. Because ending every country in Europe with a "ia" sounds a bit weird.

What is pannonia in this universe? Avar? Slavic? Germanic?

I don't think there would've been an Abbasid Caliphate without the Umayyads having conquered Persia and parts of Central Asia as that was the base of support of the Abbasid revolution

I legitimately cannot see the caliphate conquering that much if the power controlling those regions was even remotely stable, which you imply the sassanids would be

Please do what if Venus was Habitable?

continue with a part 2 please

Can someone tell me the name of the ost used in the minute 4:25 ? Thank you

its hilarous to see things like german england, polish baltic, burgundian poland, hungarian romania and ukranian venice. good video!

The hardest thing for me to buy is that 'Denmark' Manages to keep southern 'Sweden'.

So many interesting things could happen. One of the most interesting would be what happens to Russia, they adopted Orthodoxy in OTL because the Byzantines were the strongest regional power. With that no longer the case we might see them adopting Zoroastrianism or perhaps Manichaeism. With the survival of the Persian Empire it is unlikely for the Turks to adopt Islam, historically a lot of them did become Manichaean. A world split between a Manichean Slavic speaking East and a Catholic Latin speaking West would be very interesting. As to what causes the East to collapse, I think a successful Coptic Rebellion in Egypt alongside a Sassanian invasion and perhaps Visigoth and Jewish revolts while the East was under a weaker Roman Emperor could very well end the Eastern Roman Empire. As for why the West survives, the Visigoths settling in the Eastern Empire could very easily end up lessening the stress towards the West I seriously doubt the Western Empire would have the hegemony you predict though, I bet they still lose England and Germany to the Germanic invaders from Germany proper.

Bro we need a part 2

Whats the map u use?

Cool video! I am personally somewhat skeptical that there would be much Roman presence in the Western Hemisphere if they were as technologically stagnant as you describe. In particular, I'd expect North America to be more Celtic, German, and Norse than Latin. Not a criticism at all, I enjoyed the video.

You have to take into consideration that the Arabs took advantage of Byzantium and Persia being weakened due to a recent war between them that resulted in a stalemate.

I love how Novgorod still exists in this timeline

What if Confucius was never Born?

hey, great video, could you tell me what ai you are using please ?

Good video, biggest thing I was thinking was that there’s no way the western Romans could realistically hold on to Brittania if they wanted to keep going

Would you plz consider making a video about if Christian 4. Danish intervention in the 30 years war was succesful

I still suspect the Western empire would give up on its South British zone of influence (at least for a while) as it served only as a money sink during the classical history era. Otherwise really interesting take on an alt history

You would think that the Magyars would conquer Pannonia because that or the Po valley, which would have been unattainable in this timeline was their goal (even the remaining Avars joined the Hungarians historically), but I guess the map just changes on the whims of the mapmaker

Some questions and comments: 1. Is baltia just a swedish empire? 2. What happen to the baltic countries if polania took them over it? 3. Did persia convert to islam or no since they were not taken over by the arabs? 4. Did the turks convert to islam due to proximity to many islamic states or no since they were passing through Zoroastrian Persia? 5. I see anglo-saxons formed. Does that mean Ænglish is the language of later Germania? Or maybe Ænglish remains more like old Ænglish from our timeline. Or would it only remain in the state/kingdom of Anglia (1600s)? I'm seeing a dominance of north sea germanic languages here (Anglia, Saxonia etc). Would Ænglish be more influenced by old Norse in this timeline? 6. Is Prussia a slavic kingdom or after german kingdoms took it over? 7. Did the germanic countries and nordics remain germanic heathens since there was no Charlemagne conquest and maybe the germanic kingdoms didn't feel the need to convert to christanity since the western roman empire was (slave driven, lower technology, and maybe not admirable to copy) 8. Completely based af for Vinland surviving and later taking over most of Canada. As a Canadian I 100% approve this 9. If germanic heathenism survived would their be any reformations or organization of the faith? Like maybe a king with enough central power to gather the realms goði and make it an axial age religon 10. Is Pannonia also a germanic kingdom/empire like Austrian empire vs German Empire? Since it was made by Gepids, Franks, and Suebes? 11. Is Thracia a Bulgarian or Greek kingdom (1600s)? 12. Would Polania/Slavics and baltics remain slavic pagans or baltic pagans since there was no push of greek orthodoxy or threat of crusades from western/central European kingdoms? 13. Wow Greek kingdom/states getting huge this timeline (1700s) 14. Which germanic kingdom would unite germania or would it be an agreement between the states due to republicanism (1600-1700s)? 15. Do Scotia and Caledonia speak latin or romance language or Irish and Scottish Gaelic/Pictish? 16. Are the kingdoms in central america, successors of the mayan/azetc empires? 17. Is the kingdom in the Andies an Inca kingdom? For the amazon kingdoms would they be latinized or native american culture? 18. I see Scania/Slesvig-Holsten is still part of Denmark, I call this a win. 19. I see Japan and China went nuts on their empire. Tbh I can see Japan being able to hold the surrounding islands and mainland shorelines Yours truly, A CK3 fan who loves playing as Asatru Denmark/North Sea Empire

I feel if the west survived and prospered, they would’ve at least been much more aggressive with mapping out Africa. Maybe not going towards the new world, but definitely traveling the coast of Africa, trying to get to the Middle East, especially with a seeming lack of a trade state like Venice who mediated the trade of spices

Good ending for North Africa in the end, My dear Numidia is brought back and bigger 🤩

What if the Crusades never happened?

Part of my strategy in games around the Western Empire is consolidating forces to defend Italy and North Africa (Tunisia) plus the islands and basically expecting to lose the border lands, Gaul, Briton, and Illyria to Barbarians (I can someone hold Spain with the Pyrenees as a line). I think Western Rome could have survived it they just dialed down on keeping Italy and North Africa. I feel like the West was truly doomed once the Vandals took Carthage. If not for the Vandals, it could have continued on.

I think its good but i do think there are some issues with the scenario. It seems like the Roman empire in this scenario exists essentially in status compared to the rest of europe and I doubt there wouldnt be the occasional collapse. Further i think its certain that Britain would break off around the time of the black death to limit spread. roman north africa would probably still be conquered by the caliphates. I like the