Precisely.

and simultaneously giving in to let miles pass without any resistance because hobie is committed to independence and free choice, even if he disagrees with the particular decision

Legit, Hobie was the only one who DIDNT chase Miles like every other person did.

@@GreysonParker fr he's like 'i believe in freedom and that also means the freedom to make stupid ass decisions' XD Miles and Gwen are SO lucky to have Hobie as a friend to watch out for them and help them out

It is not only that he didn't want Miles to meet Miguel. it not merely that he let Miles pass without resistance because he is committed to independence. By putting up actual barriers that took no effort for Miles to break through, he psychologically primed Miles for the concept of breaking through barriers, so that he would be more able to do so when an actual barrier gets in his way. That is also why he told Miles the thing about using his palm, not just his fingers. His entire presence there was about teaching Miles to defy barriers.

It was one of the largest strengths of the first one and it’s baffling that they were able to do it AGAIN. This crew knows what the fuck they’re doing and I am here for it. Also, great analysis by schnee as per usual.

Reminds me of Arcane, there is so much there but not too much

About a couple hours in I realized they weren't going to conclude the story, I didn't know it was a "to be continued" type of movie going in

And they still need another movie bc they spoil us

What's even more amazing is that they stuffed so much stuff in and somehow made it feel like a 90 minute movie. It definitely does not feel 140 minutes long.

....I just can't believe how clever the symbolism in this movie is

Good point!!

these are a very clever reference to the Fanzine community that published pamphlet of art in diverse forms with collage, naive painting and cutted shape out of magazine talking about a lot of various subject, from love to politics!

Oh man, just like an onion.

Holyfuckingshit

i noticed that too! Hell ya!

Genius

Genius, indeed. Amazing detail to the character. Great analysis.

fr!!

😱 Thank you so much I didn’t notice !

That's a beautiful thought!

"If you're uncool without the mask, you'll never be cool with it."

❤

That’s so cool!

Hobbie is also a punk with very little attachment. It's easy to be that cool and detached in your secret identity when you don't really have anything to lose from it.

this!!! despite being set up to make miles feel inferior and immature, hobie is the one who points miles towards self-agency, making his own rules and choices. hobie gives miles so much respect and trust. gwen and peter b were the ones doing most of the making him feel inferior and immature, despite them meaning well.

Nah y’all get it 👍🏾

So real. Hobie was on Miles side from the start. Just being a real force for good behind all the shadiness and secrecy of the spider society

@@aiiiia9971 agreed. And I’m glad he ain’t slandering the other characters for not outright trying to help Miles cuz he understands that not everybody is open and rebellious as Hobie. He’s just another breed of badass

Yes! Hobie empowers Miles to make his own informed choices instead of just trying to protect him. Hobie knows he won't always be there and Miles needs to understand what's going on and what his abilities are so that he can protect himself. It's a fine balancing act, and Hobie does it very well! 💕✨

It's actually 7x (35/5=7)

This video is trying to make something out of nothing just for views. Very desperate if you ask me. I bet my life he's just the same and normal in the sequel

​@@rayromano6249 it's okay to say that you just didn't understand anything he said bro 👍

​@@rayromano6249Prove it.

@@rayromano6249 then bro you're dead lmao he will have a much bigger role in part 2

I think it's also foreshadowing the events with Miles dad too!

Holy crap that’s so smart

yeah, the moment he asked about miles parents my heart sank because I thought "damn he probably lost one or both, maybe he didn't even had a uncle ben to fall on" i interpreted it as genuine concern from the start and it made a bit mad at miles for being so grumpy

Hobie’s name is spelt with ONE b. Hobbie is pronounced the same as bobbie, just with an h

Exactly!! It's so neat!!

I also interpreted that line as Hobie knowing that Miles’s dad is a police officer and would die in a canon event. Trying to get him to think about how important his family is to him and not write them off in favor of joining the Spider-Society

OUR FAVORITE ANARCHIST

And I think there's even a third layer. He's gotta know how Gwen feels about Miles. He's trying to make sure she'll be safe. If she visits, stays, or even moves in with Miles, he wants to know that she'll have a good place to stay.

Knowing from the Comics that Hobie grew up in the streets gives this even more dimension. A good home isn’t something he sees as a given. Wich in my mind is a huge part of why he took Gwen in. He knows how it feels to have no place to go. And the idea that he was already planing to take Miles in as well is awesome. I really love how much more there is to this character, the more often you watch this movie. The first time most of us are a little wary of him, the second time he was something to look forward to.

HOLY SHIT I NEVER EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT IT LIKE THAT

YUP. He was a punk before he was a Spider.

I never realized that, He realized Gwen wasn't going to tell him or try to warn him so he figured he'd be the one to do it. Brilliant. Way to catch that!

He was trying to break the system all along... or until Miles became part of the picture

And I also love how when he introduces himself he doesn't reveal his secret identity, only to unmask himself later because he doesn't believe in consistency

@@tuckernutter he was definitely in it to break it right from the start, Miles was merely the golden opportunity he was waiting for

Or my (least) favorite: "anarchism = chaos lmao--no, I hate reading, why do you ask?" EDIT: awesome carbuncle pfp dude

So by humanizing him and giving him more subtle but no less powerful ways to portray his message without being a dark caricature, they made one of the best characters ever?

They are represented this way, because most of the time, this is what they are. They would just replace something bad, by something worst.

​@@Carpatouille I was hoping for an actual descriptive and well informed comment. Perhaps consider leaving the sociopolitical analysis to those who have a meaningful understanding of the political school of anarchism?

@@simoncoweII You wear your nickname and pfp well. Perfect incarnation of the smug douchebag who thinks himself so much higher than others, when in reality he's much dumber than he thinks. Stay in your bubble for now, reality will catch up to you. It always does at one point, for everyone. For now, as a matter of fact, every revolutionnary leader has only brought down one form of fascism to install another that's much worst. It's just how it is. Anarchy no matter which one you think of, has always been, is, and always will be, a terrible way for people to evolve in, that only brings the worst misery in the end. For someone who pretends having "a meaningful understanding of the political school of anarchism", you should know better, but it doesn't seem like it.

I love the little nods to this throughout the movie too, like Miles going "claws? Are you even a spider-man??" cause he's not. He's not any of the things that make a spider-man. Threatening and mirthless, domineering and cold.. pretty much everything spider-man isn't. The claws are just a physical manifestation of that discrepancy.

I completely agree. Hobie is Spiderman in their purest form. Also, the backstory of Miguel is another huge contrast to Hobie's, at least from the comics. He is a geneticist working for a corrupt research company, and his personality is cold and scientific initially.

A fascist slogan was literally "Me ne frego!": "I don't give a fuck!"

And I’d rather watch Miguel all day every day.

Imagine yourself going to another dimension only to see it implode in front of you, not only earth, but the entire UNIVERSE, all thanos, mars, every single atom just because you wanted a family, it's not about destroying families on earth, but on an infinite scale. If that does not mess you up I don't know what will... then you, by pure guilt, decides to fix *the entire multiverse* that, mind I remind you, it's *infinite* . Remember, at the start of the movie after Gwen confronts his father she says "I don't know how to fix this" and Miguel replies "Welcome to the club", he does not know ether, he's just trying to keep it all together, every day, no vacation, forever... yeah... I'm not saying he's right per se but... how would YOU fix it? Because I also have no clue withtout a new plot point

Also, that doesn't prioritise conforming to any set of rules (even his own) over doing the right thing for his friends.

And it’s a reference/homage/tongue-in-cheek allusion to the very same line from The Lego Movie*, which was ALSO written by Phil Lord and Chris Miller (*Uttered by Princess Unikitty when they first enter Cloud Cuckoo Land)

that line made the entire theater laugh

yeah. hes pragmatic and his morality isn't centralized around moral rules (being an anarchist)

Let's also not forget the obvious: He doesn't believe "The Cannon" necessarily should be cannon. What is the most enforced consistency in the story? It's also the most painful personal event for most of them. The backstory tie in. He has every reason to not believe in that, it's an unnecessary human toll to teach a lesson that doesn't have to come out of blood like that. There are other ways to learn responisbility.

Which blows a wrench in the face of Miguel's entire idea

@@mannythegrandfather2291The foreshadowing in this (soon to be) trilogy is absolutely insane💀

@@mannythegrandfather2291By Miguel’s horseshit logic he should be screaming in Mayday’s face saying “YOU WERE NEVER SUPPOSED TO BORN! YOUR DAD WAS NEVER SUPPOSED BE WITH YOUR MOM!! HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DIE ALONE!”

​@@kingpinpasta2934the image is so funny to me because I imagine her giving him a good whack w/ her tiny baby hands just for suggesting the idea 😂

I never heard of a canon event where something isn't allowed to happen. Remember, canon events in the movie are being defined as events Spider-Man has to go through where possible, such as losing a Captain of the police force that is close to the Spider-Man in question. This is why Miles himself is fine: while he wasn't meant to exist, that isn't a break of the canon. It is that Miles becoming Spider-Man pushes him into the canon of Spider-Man, such as losing a Captain close to him, which would be Miles's father. Not every Spider-Man gets together with Mary Jane, not every one gets divorced. So Peter B Parker getting back together with Mary Jane and even having a kid has no relation to canon events. Hell, Peter B Parker might even be out of canon events himself due to his age and length as Spider-Man. By that, I mean that he has already experienced every applicable canon event already.

My favorite part bout the "love triangle" is that it's all Miles' perception yes, Gwen is staying at Hobie's place, but not as his girl... as a friend or even a sister. Yes, I see Hobie as the epic big bro figure who took first Gwen, then Miles' under his wing and I LOVE that dynamic especially with the competition of affection misdirect.

In fact they are both jealous. As we can seen Miles is jealous about hobbie , And did any body notice that Gwen was jealous When miles meets with Margo "MARGO KEES AKA SPIDER-BYTE OF EARTH 22191" starting from 1:21:02 upto 1:21:43 Miles:That's cool.sorry. I'm spiderman. Margo: Oh,no way! All of us are. Then she swings. Gwen:Can we just keep moving ?👈( Didn't even wanted him to chat.jealousy!) Miles:whoa,whoa,whoa. What are you? Margo: I'm an avatar. My body is back in my parents' dimension,chilling in a gaming chair and eating Frito's. Back at home"Right' because you don't listen." Margo: Here is better. Miles: I here that. What does that do? Hobbie: Apart from having a great name? Gwen: The go home machine. Hobbie: What did i say,eh? Gwen: I voted against it. Margo: It detects whatever dimension your DNA is from and sends you there. Hobbie: It's super humane and not creepy. Margo: see you dawg.Don't come back. Gwen: we should go. We don't wanna keep the boss waiting. Miles: Ah,See you around? Hobbie: Let's go! Gwen:pull miles by the web.👈(shows the jealously) Margo: Good luck out there, man. Miles: Okay,bye! This can make as sure about Gwens feelings on miles.

I really love this Miles and Gwen dynamic, they are so cute, and it is particularly poignant when Gwen portrayed as more "Grown up", mature and sure/confident than Miles in the first movie, and that is the point of the intro for the movie, building up Gwen as being as much of a lost teenager a Miles.

He also called her, his drummer. So she may also actually just be in the band and why she visits.

@@nonnativenarnianI also think that Hobie may even have a little bit of hero worship for Gwen, because apparently his universe had a SpiderGwen, had, and he kind of looked up to her. (A sort of Watching the Legend become the Legend thing)

He's basically Miles's uncle.

Just to clarify, in the comics Hobie was the Prowler of 616, but (to my knowledge) in the universe Spider-Punk comes from he was never the Prowler. Miles' uncle was originally only the Prowler in the Ultimate universe, until the Ultimate universe was merged into the 616. So Hobie and Aaron didn't really have any connections aside from using the same villain name. But I wouldn't be surprised if they made more of a connection there in the BTSV though. It just seems like too much of a coincidence for them not to.

​@@shockthetoastthat's so cool! Thanks for clarifying!

I'm really sick of this idea that every spider that isn't peter wasn't 'supposed' to be spider-man. It's just specifically this version of Miles who had his fate changed. All the spiders were 'meant' to be Spider-Man. "What makes you different is what makes you Spider-Man"

@@arsha8547there’s nothing to say that in a multiverse vast enough for kitty-cat Spider-Men, dinosaurs, cartoons and Lego Spider-Men, that things in Miles’ world didn’t turn out EXACTLY as they were supposed to. In Universe 42, MILES was supposed to be the original Spider-Man, a multiverse has room for infinite possibilities.

To quote the man himself "I don't believe in consistency".

@@thebadnoob5398 Which is funny, because if you take it like that, it contradicts itself at the same time! Yes, Hobie is making everything else inconsistent, but HE stays consistent the whole way through.

@@thebusiness7702 I love these kinds of dualities! Someone can be consistently inconsistent. The ability to do that is an art and skill.

@@thebusiness7702 Reminds me of, "You can trust a liar to lie"

@@atticusdrot8638 it's the honest man you gotta look out for. you never know when he'll do something...really...stupid

100 percent correct

Best side character

I hope I can be that kind of friend for my homies

You can also argue with how perceptive Hobie is, he already knows Gwen didn't tell Miles the important details since Miles agreed to go along. What he's doing isn't just confirming that detail, he's giving Gwen a chance to tell Miles the truth herself before Miles walks into the Spider's Web. When she doesn't, he prepares to help Miles and build a safety net for Gwen when she figures out what she thinks is right.

Aka he’s a bro

Problem is, harsh or not, Miguel might still just be right, I think there's something deeper going on, (And that Miguel is just caught up in it, too) but if there isn't, all thus rebellion ends in is the destruction of multiple universes. Most interesting point is that they're all the good guys, trying to do their best, miles might be against them, but they might be right. We'll see in a year or so.

@@MagicCardboardBox I do think Miguel missed something, and his theories on canon are flawed. Both earth-42 and 1610 are structurally intact, despite both suffering from multiverse tampering. I'm pretty sure Miguel just jumped at the first plausible explanation simply for closure.

@@alecchristiaen4856 I agree with you on that one! Miguel's multiverse theories are flawed and he is unwilling to revise them (probably because that means his closure and/or his power over the other Spider-people will be shattered). Not to mention that this whole mess is really whoever let the radioactive spider from Earth-42 into Miles' universe... Or it could have even been a freak accident!

exactly this too!!! He MEANT it when he said build your own watch. he wanted miles to do his own thing from the start 🤷

​@@Gremlinnethat being said they seem pretty real to him. So punk spidermen, with the current data, would indeed be heading to destroy the multiverse. The movie will probably go the "there is always another way" point but as far as the things that are known up until now, it is obvious that Miguel is right regardless of how much Hobbie wants to be against it.

Now this has my wheels turning about what if his cop dad was abusive which is why he killed him and also why he houses Gwen and asked Miles about his family life. He wants to give kids support and protection he didn't get!

Somehow I totally forgot about Laces. That's such a good detail. I do wonder if it was intentional or just "Spider colors" but I'd lean towards intentionality with how well in depth every choice was

​@@sadieoliviaruiz1848I think I recall the actual character designer publicly stating it wasn't intentional, but regardless of intention I think it's an excellent piece of storytelling!!!!

just something that went through my head: miguel compares the multiverse with a spiderweb, which are known for being extremely strong. A SINGLE change in the canon would be like a thread snapping or something catching on it, sure it can shake things up, but the web will not break. There also will always be new spiders making more and more threads, the web is infinite and solid

@@Carols989 ooo I dig that!!!

Exactly! One thing they emphasize in the film is that humor is just a part of what Spiderman is. You can't be Spiderman without being funny. They even play around with the fact that Miguel is a hard-ass; he cracks a few jokes here and there, but he's actively trying not to be funny; even dumbo is still, at his core, a jokester. Hobie is just the opposite extreme of Miguel. If Miguel thinks nothing should be a joke, Hobie thinks everything is already a joke; if Miguel is trying to take things seriously, Hobie actively wants to undermine it for being too serious. For Hobie, the world is humor, and he's just the conduit.

I feel the need to look up if the writer(s) are the same people who write the Loki series. The two series/movies mirror each other very closely.

@@anythingyoucando1546 Oh that makes sense! That's why before the "Spider-Canon" was revealed it looked like the branching timelines from Loki.

What I love about this movie is how every spider person checks every box of what it means to be Spider-Man. It shows that you can write original characters while being true to the mantle. The exception is Miguel, but this is the case because he’s not really Spider-Man by nature, but an extremely complex man trying to live up to the legacy of the greatest hero in his dimension.

​@@anythingyoucando1546the hot mess of dog shite that is the Loki series couldn't possibly in a million years be a product of the same writers of the Spiderverse movies.

I think it was done well in Ghost Trick, my favourite mystery game ever, heh

I think there's a trope for that called "Guile Hero"

@@leritykay8911 I might check that out!

@@icetweiz Awesome! I just mean in terms of modern works, especially books, there's a tendency to make characters overtly honest, and deception tends to be reserved to dark protagonist moments or to villains when good people are dishonest about themselves all the time.

@@MIR-bu1ft Oh well, yeah, I think you should! I wasn't expecting to do Ghost Trick propaganda today, but I strongly recommend the game. *It was a DS game that recently got a remaster on pretty much all consoles and PC *It was made by the Ace Attorney guys *If you do play it please avoid any possible spoilers. Don't even look up stuff about the game on google if possible

It was so exciting to see!! I was kind of prepared to settle for the surface-level/possibly played-for-comedy stuff they initially presented him with, but the result was more nuanced and genuine than I had thought possible!

Yes!!! I was so excited to see him! Finally decent anarchist rep! 🎉🎉🎉

The way Anarchy was meant to be.

Exactly!! Well-said!!

Thiss

Today I found out I might be an anarchist

@@shame2189 Good job

That's a fair point, but it's also an ironically naive outlook, because people are the corrupting force of organizations in the first place. The point of large organizations is to eliminate as many opportunities for betrayal of trust as possible. Which is, naturally, what attracts traitors to them in the first place. Eliminating organizations doesn't create trusting, cooperative communes. It actually does the opposite.

True

Definitely ties in with his role as a guide/mentor to Miles!

@@maqaeda agreed

damn

Pip pip!

Yeah Hobie is full of the big brother energy for both Miles and Gwen.

‘The person he wants to become’ where’d you get that idea? Your ass? He may admire Hobie, but he said it himself, he wants to have his story unfold HIS way.

kinda funny using the term big brother while referring to a rebel

​@@possibly_benbro hates consistency and labels so it makes sense :P

The movie doesn't just throw Miles for a loop, they throw the audience for a loop! As soon as Gwen mentions Hobie, I could feel all my hopes shrivel. I thought "Oh joy, another love triangle. Can't wait..." and sure enough, Hobie shows up and proves to be way more confident than Miles. And just like Miles, I was so overjoyed to find out that not only was Hobie _NOT_ fulfilling the stereotypical role of "love triangle competition for protagonist," but that he was a much deeper character who (rather than competing or being jealous of Miles) COMPLETELY supported and gassed up Miles. I was absolutely delights, even kicking myself for doubting the writers.

Oh nice.

Everyone in this comment section is so smart I love yal

Not just that, either. When he takes his mask off, it's supposed to send a subconscious signal to us like, "Wait, if his face isn't what he's hiding, then what is it?"

It is also "There is no difference between who I am with mask and who I am without mask, I am always me."

I'm just now realising that he's *definitely not* talking about Miguel specifically XD

I'm just now realising that he's *definitely not* talking about Miguel specifically XD

Your dad sounds cool

he reminds me of poet

your dad sounds so COOL

As a black Brit I was also shocked by the accuracy. Apparently Daniel kaluuya (the va) was given creative control; he also grew up in camden which makes this 10x better. Was a bit worried at first when they introduced a British character. Glad they went down this route instead of stereotypical queen english brit 😂

@@emii36363 woULD yOu liKe a CUp O' TeAaa???

Can you explain i dont get it ?

@@vicious592 Pointing out the violence and double standards of the spider socity

​​@@vicious592it's the build up. When everyone is against Miles trying to contain the problem, Hobie is for independence believing the problem should be released and free.

@@vicious592 The Spider-Society and Miguel were trying to have Miles conform to the canon events stuff and are trying to shut him down from doing anything. When Peter B. calls him "Kid" Miles says "Stop calling me that" and Hobie casually says "There you go." Jess says that Hobie isn't helping to which he responds with a simple "Good" because that was suppose to be his point. He's not trying to help the Spider-Society at all.

@jasonackor7958 In that scene, Hobbie also visually reminds Miles to "use his palms" to escape that trap.

I like the theory that his dad was a police captain who died saving him trying to do the right thing. He blames himself and thinks that he killed him.

gonna be honest that unless they span it in like a VERY specific way i think that the idea of hobie “blaming himself for the death of the police captain he knew” is like. really shallow and like lowkey an insult to anarchism. i think it’s much more interesting if hobie just straight up killed them - maybe they were someone he once cared for who eventually became more and more corrupt after becoming an officer

@@catboymiles7224 Anarchists are often betrayed as loose canons, but true to philosphy anarchists, like Hoby is presented as, are not lawless selfish entitled chaos. Anarchy only means, no structured leadership, it does not mean lawlessness. Even if he is an Anarchist, that dead cop might have been close to him as being the one cop on the force who's not dirty, in a city full of bent coppers, and he got him killed or failed to safe him.

@@StarlasAiko there is nothing in my comment that says anything about "lawless selfish entitled chaos"?? being fundamentally opposed to the profession of policing is not that at all

Well said. Makes me want to focus on the people in my life who are in difficult situations and determine what I can do to help them. I guess that's the final stage of analysis: not just "how can I use this in my storytelling" but also "how can I apply this to my life?"

Also, when miles is in the cage, Hobie shows him his palms. We understand he's referencing what he'd told miles before, but on my third viewing of the movie I realised that he's standing in front of the other spidermen. From their perspective, it looks like Hobie is trying to calm down miles. But he's deceiving them still.

@@travisperkins9920 you can even see him mouthing out "use the palm" to Miles! Hobie is so f@cking cool I can't even.

The funniest part about Hobie is you can honestly take it either way. Was it just a random quip? Did he figure out how to break barriers like that because of Spider Societies' laser cages? Did he for see Miles breaking out a cage in the same way? The guy is so free-flowing it could honestly be all yes, it could be all no, it could even be a, excuse my Drake, *combination*

@@FrostDzNz I think Hobie has a variation of the electric power that he used to break through the collider barrier, so knew it could be used against Miguel's ones if needed

@@travisperkins9920 oh, *wow.* Never even considered the deceptive facing

good point! and drums also lead soldiers to a battle :)

Also from a personality perspective she is much more of a stable leader for a revolution of spidey people than Hobie *could* be due to his delibrately disarming nature while in the Spider Society.

Which Gwen would fully understand considering she IS a drummer herself.

drums arent the backbone of a song, youre thinking of the baseline. The bass carries the rhythm far more than the drums do

@@twigtwigtwig7youre right but so wrong. The drummer sets the timing. The bass line guides the melodies and rhythm as you said. That makes the drummer the “lead” and the baseline the moderation aka the position i think Peter B takes as the “adult.” Hobie himself literally takes the lead but not as a leader. A lead guitarist isnt always the main factor in a band but is often the center of attention due to their actions and role

Replace those forward slashes with underscores to get _italics!_ Also, yeah, I'm not anarchistic, but as a Linux-using, DIY-minded person, the "favorite genre of music" bit in a video about a practical definition of depth in a creative medium kinda low-key triggered me.

Not only that his character’s design being torn paper layered over each other really drives the punk factor in, it’s super cool the way his character is so layered (literally and figuratively) and that he’s not just some “I love anarchy and I will create chaos”, but his anarchist actions are against miguels logic

yeah i think its more writers being deceptive than hobie himself in-character deliberately being deceptive.

I feel like he does play it up intentionally, not really with Miles or Gwen or his friends, but within the Spider Society, definitely. Hobie's got the classic spiderman intelligence and he comes off as self-aware of how people percieve him which allowed him to get away unnoticed for months despite stealing their tech

He just seemed chill to me. Like a human capybara

@@Sootieloveagreed

I don’t think he was hiding, because he has nothing to hide and he knows it. That’s why he was actively talking about it. He was just laying low.

I just want to say that your explanation of dressing punk makes SO MUCH SENSE! Younger generations like myself grew up where fashion choices and aesthetics no longer reflect social and political ideologies as much as it was mere personal preference. Reference to video essays I've recently watch, subcultures are dying and it makes me wonder how much more impactful it is if the sheer effort of dressing can convey your stance. Although of course, noncomformity can be conveyed in other more powerful means beyond appearance.

OH MY GOD YESSSSS thank you for bringing attention to this - all the points, all the observations pt. 2 - agreed, honestly amazing and love it so much pt. 3 - exactly

Great comment! You had the best parents I bet!

1. Nice 2. That's a romanticization of the punk subculture. They were antisocial rebels and anarchists (anarchist = 80iq). People suddenly stop being punks one day when they take an honest look in the mirror 3 - watch the whole movie again. They ARE a couple

@@CJ-wh7ik Incredibly shallow and inflexible analysis here

Same.

facts. like im not straight, but if i was, Hobie is the kind of guy i'd want

"tropicalization"?

Same, I smiled the moment I realised I wasn't watching another worthless liberal pretending to be a radical. This was an anarchist working toward building a revolution.

srry for the random question but what do you do for a living cuz im planning on studying that but not sure what kind of jobs I could apply to

Idk, IS he neutral? Chaotic, absolutely, but he always seems to want to help miles/stick it to “the man” (Miguel/the society). Feel like unadulterated chaotic GOOD to me but I’m no expert

I think that he's chaotic good

Punks are chaotic good by definition, imo.

I've never seen this, but it sounds like I need to, goddamn. It's like Sting taking off the sting mask and him still being sting.

Yeah, like someone else said, punks literally are chaotic good by definition

Ah yes, follow the Punk! Let's get down to it and protect our creators!

THIS COMMENT HAS 69 LIIIKKEESSS🗣️🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🔥🔥‼️‼️🔥🗣️🗣️🔥‼️🔥🗣️

Hate AM maybe has a double meaning similiar to waking up early like in the alarm clock

For brazillians this also kinda works out nicely: PM is how we call our military police. Which... well, that's two things every good punk hates just bundled up nicely.

​@@m.b.8282 if you take it at face value, sure

@@m.b.8282 The AM/PM thing sounds mindless at first glance, like saying you hate the day AND the night. Face value is him being superficially punk. PM meaning Prime Minister gives new context to the AM, its just a smokescreen to make it into a quip. Its a good line, it fits the "inconsistent" trait well.

I have sooo much growing and learning to do.

i wish i was a bit more savvy in those ways, but im definitely not as savvy as you and probably some others, but i did catch MOST of this, on my first viewing and was really glad to have noticed what was going on. there was some bits that i missed (that it was clearly the watches he was after) but a lot of it I understood too, because, as you said having a similar way of thinking.

Yes! I remember being a bit in disbelief at seeing such a good and cool representation of a punk character. From the very beginning he’s clearly stating what he believes in and what actually drives his actions, but most people are just used to not taking that kind of discourse seriously and their first response is to think it’s a joke or he’s just saying random stuff

100% this. My only hesitation at the beginning was “Oh, does this movie understand what anarchism is, or is Hobie going to be a superficial punk?” But RIGHT AWAY it becomes obvious that no, he’s the real deal

Yeah, agreed. If anything it's interesting to see how the average person does dismiss all that as superficial noise as that very much reflects on where society's at. Someone on the writing team knew their shit.

i just wanna say… this is so underrated omg

holy crap. this idea just blew open the vault of potential that i thought was possible for Hobie as a character. he stops joking when he’s fulfilling that trope, using his full power, and his power is to incite change.

My favorite example of when Spider-Man stops quipping is one comic where King Pin threatens Aunt May and Peter goes to the prison that holds King Pin, takes of his suit, challenges him to a fist fight, and almost beats him to death. The only thing that stops him from killing the biggest, most powerful threat in his world is himself. Spider-Man is terrifying when he's serious because that's when no one can stop him. He WILL accomplish his goals. There are many comics when he will die before he stops making jokes because he knows what he's capable of. Hobie knows this. He probably knows this better then anyone else in that room because his entire life has been him fighting. The fact that he makes less jokes when he gets to the spider place (I don't remember the name) just shows how much he hates what it's become, but when he's completely serious at the end it shows that he will NOT let anyone stand in the way, no matter who they are or how much power they hold.

@@yourshoulderdevil5229 I don't even like that scene, but yes, EXACTLY that. "The problem, Fisk, is you don't have any real power. Can't fly, can't shoot fire across the room. You're just a man." That's an *ugly* sentiment to come out of Peter Parker. But it isn't wrong.

I love this so much, and is a little brushed off sometimes. Or used in a wrong way, but here? Holy crap

Such a GREAT POINT, gosh this character is so great!

I just realized, yeah, he's not just asking "this the boy from 1610", he's saying it in silent air quotes, "the boy from 1610". That sums up how little Miguel thinks of Miles, he's not Spider "man", he's just a "boy". A kid.

I think that Hobie was legitimately a member until he realized that Miguel was willing to sacrifice innocent people to protect the timeline.

@@pn2294 Disagree, but I do think that he didn't go in with an intent to scope them out-- more that the second he got in the bad vibes hit him and he realized the danger. I don't know Spider Punk's abilities, but I was under the impression that spidey sense was pretty universal, right? Hobie's spidey sense probably went off like crazy.

The thing about putting his legs up like that, is that he's signalling to miles not to go, he's hoping miles will stop walking and have a chat with him, but when Miles pushes him aside he lets him. Because he trusts Miles to make his own decisions, and do what is right. Even while guiding him and hoping he realises sooner.

Dude was overplaying his anarchistic anti-authority persona so the Spider-Society wouldn't take him seriously. Even Miguel didn't see that Hobie was stealing technology right under his nose. Like an actual anarchist, he sets his plan by waiting. Then he sees what Miguel was willing to resort then he starts the dominos to fall. He was true to himself the entire time. Like Miles, he was willing to break rules to do the right thing. Hobie played 4D chess against the dude who probably has 4D chess in his futuristic lab

Yeah I don't get the shock and awe and "Two Hobies" bit. It was very clear who he was from his intro (to me).

Oh man, that works so well, too. Because the reason is something he can't let anyone, even the viewers, know yet.

man. this and the fact that he has blue shoelaces… i cant wait for btsv

It's great, because he's obviously being viewed with that stereotype in mind by his peers. The perfect cover.

I also love it because even I thought he was going to be the sterotypical punk written in shows. Of just rule breaking for the sake of it. Man had actual cause and heart for punk and use a lot of punk terms to throw people off. Love him

Fr. He's ripping shit off the walls to make his watch later on, and no one stops him because that just what he does.

The first time you can see he is not dumb is after Spot vanishes and Pavitr Prabhakar starts to celebrate, he reacts the same as Miles and Gwen that this is not over...

He really is perfectly punk. Both superficial (punk sayings, aesthetic, stealing shit, rock star) and genuine (legitimately a rebel, unambiguously there for his loved ones, stealing shit, aesthetic).

He’s really telling miles in that moment, don’t listen to them and follow their orders, BUT it’s interpreted as that shallow aesthetic. And he’s also recognizing miles potential to be anti-authoritarian like him, because of how he saved officer Singh.

​@@krzlcveThe whole convo from when Miles first enters to getting to Miguel is Hobbie trying to get Miles to listen and think about the situation but Miles is too focused on just meeting his friends again. When Miles figures out the situation he actually listens to Hobbie when he tells him to use the palm

In the Spiderverse comic run where he's introduced he hates the name Spider Punk, but by the time that his own comic run takes place he's grown to like the name.

And I think it makes sense he'd like the name considering it makes him standout from just being your average Spider-Man. Doesn't make sense he'd want to deserve a title that pretty much everyone has. It makes sense he'd deviate from the norm, which the name does perfectly.

@@_VISION. It's also a great middle finger to the people who were trying to use the title to delegitimize his role as his universe's Spiderman.

He has previous experience with this type of situation, is hoping that Miles would start rebelling on his own, and was actively (but subtly) sewing seeds for the society’s downfall. Agreed, that line is really phenomenal.

Of course his Voice changes a Lot, he doesn't believe in consistency!

The music being louder is just because for some reason the sound balance is ass in the movie The same thing happens during the intro when Gwen, Miguel, and Jess battle the Vulture

yes, the mixing on its original release was pretty bad. they redid it about a week or two after opening, i went to see it again and it was much better. id still say OP's point stands. the music during his lil speech is dissonant in a way gwen's wasnt. they just went a bit too far and made him unintelligible the first time around

That's the power of film making, it's so much harder to replicate that in a book because you don't get hidden, or wordless moments like this.

@@bobthegamingtaco6073 Yeah, I'm out here trying to learn how to foreshadow properly in my writing without it being a complete asspull or ridiculously obvious on the get go. Maybe I just understand foreshadowing better in visual media.

@@joyc.e.7511 there's a reason why it's called chekov's gun. With books you really do need to add in little details like a gun hanging on the wall, that way when the gun gets shot you get a "oh my god that gun wasn't mentioned after chapter 3" effect. Honestly, I'd look at d&d, choose your own adventure books, and if you want to subvert it, the Alcatraz Vs Evil Librarians series

@@bobthegamingtaco6073 Thank you, I'll check those out! I've always been impressed with choose your own adventure books (I don't know much about d&d but I think it functions similarly, with someone writing out the lore and plot). Essentially writing alternate timelines based on a few decisions. The book series you mentioned sounded familiar and it turns out I've seen it a few times in my local library lol. I've been thinking of getting into Brandon Sandersons' books.

@@joyc.e.7511 d&d is similar, but if you're the DM, you really get to practice balancing amount of information with length of exposition. It's a really good exercise to avoid the dreaded Exposition Dump, plus, since it's a game, players will tend to look for exploitable faults in world building, which helps get you thinking about plot holes in your regular writing, both how to avoid them and how to patch them up when they inevitably arise.

Facts. Kaluuya was perfect as Hobie

Good catch!

he can also turn invisible like miles! you can see it in the "well that was another successful adventure for spiderman!" scene.

I think the barriers are just weak to high volumes of any energy, it'd make much more sense that Hobie's power is more relavent to sound waves, than it is electricity. As he's an anarchist and fully against corrupt systems (therefore, loud). So maybe the barriers could be sensitive to high concentrations of energy capable of travelling through it?

…and his music was electric.

Every black superhero seems to have electric powers tf is up with that

I disliked Hobie at first, but I totally believe in platonic relationships. I just thought that he was going to be another cringy 3rd corner of a love triangle. I was genuinely shocked, but super relieved, to see him become more and more obviously not a 3rd corner, and when I saw him hold is hands up to a trapped Miles and remind him to "use the palm"? Instant favorite!

As a huge believer in genuine girl-boy fully platonic relationships myself, yeah I think the frustration comes from distrusting the writing. So much media steps all over those relationships in favor of romance and jealousy and love triangles, so when you first hear these things about Hobie from Gwen, it’s an easy assumption to make that they’re gearing up for the tired, overdone and frankly almost never well executed tropes. Luckily, it didn’t happen

It’s more how movies generally write characters like this it’s almost always a love triangle

Same, I completely missed the love triangle insinuation lol

@@athenaleonard1046 I guess it's a good thing I was not watching an extensive amount of Hollywood produce for the past several years. Made me forget the classic tropes that might be implied there. I also just was genuinely glad to hear about someone being nice and friendly to Gwen at the time. But to be fair, I only realised the true colours of Hobie at the very end of the movie, and never to the extent that was discussed in this video, even at the start.

I mean in the comics the main big bad is President Osborn so swapping up the villain to someone who is thematically similar is such a smart move. And the personality, aside from being British, stays pretty true to the comics which is great.

Introverted Hobie ftw

Because at least with people who declare they’re your enemy, you know exactly where you stand and what actions to take. Whereas among people who say they’re on your side, but have ulterior motives, you have to tread carefully 👌🏾

this is a good point, in the Spider Society he's essentially acting as a long-game sabateur, he has to be cool, not push too many buttons, steal a piece here, a part there, DIY (or steal and jailbreak) as many watches as he can manage, for when the time finally comes to make a move. He makes friends and allies, people that would have his back if things went sideways, aided Gwen who was *also* lined up to have to let their father die for the canon event, and is clearly torn up about that. Hobie probably saw Gwen as a potential instigator of change, in addition to being his drummer and friend, Miles would up being the one, but if Miles hadn't gotten involved, I think it's likely Gwen would have had a change of heart, and gone to save her dad, with Hobie having her back, bringing along any friends and allies he could get to answer the call. (come to think of it, he'd probably help Gwen bring Miles in to back her up in that scenario)

It's such an ironic contradiction (and very sad). The greatest struggles usually produce the greatest art.

​@@RelaxAndRawr The same beauty can be created with equally strong support. It's annoying that struggle is something sought after rather than just accepted within our capitalist hellholes.

but he has to believe in consistency sometimes or then his belief in not believing in consistency would be too consistent :P

Wait seriously? I know that they animated on different frames for some things but animating different parts of a single character on different frames like that is insane. Sheesh, no wonder his animation was so striking.

​@@saphcalI'd argue that "inconsistency" as a constant of someone's personality is an inate contradiction, and an inconsistency by extension. This is fun to think about!

@@hahahahahahahahaa6580 the more inconsistent the inconsistency is, the more accurate it is! :P

The best part is hobie couldve left at anytime but he decided to stay until miles saw what he saw

​@@purplebanana6420 hobie saw miles' heart

Me too. I thought he was a mess. But everything from his animation and dialogue makes him a living Chekov's gun.

Also did you notice his changes SEEM anarchic and uncontrolled but, much like his actions, there's depth to all of them? Grey when disappointed or getting serious about the ills of the world. Pink blush when affectionate. Bold and brash when playing to the crowd.

Little evidence? I swear yall refuse to believe sometimes the main character is wrong. Literally everything Miguel has said has happened. So he's a fascist for trying to stop universe's from crumbling into themselves...we literally see the phenomenon has with Pavitr universe...that literally only happens because of miles an was contained only because of Miguel an his "fascist government " 😂

​@@crowing3886 YES, Miles was wrong for disrupting Pavtir's universe and Spot becoming more powerful as a result. And yes he also should have listened to Miguel and not disrupt canon events because he wanted to save his dad. But let's not pretend Miguel was a total saint either. Slamming Miles into the train, calling him a mistake, and pretty much projecting all of his anger and frustration on a fifteen year old. Miguel may have been right but he went about it the wrong way

​@@cwytchsparks exactly. Also felt like Miguel wanted to stop Miles not mainly because of his univers's well being, but rather jelaousy. I feel like there is indeed a way to save his dad without destroying their umiverse, but Miguel couldn't do it, so he doesn't want to see others succeed and be happy just because he is not too. I feel like he is just masking and hiding behind this "I'm the one who is trying to save everybody" role, but in reality, this is just a really small part of his motivation.

@@cido2270 THAT PART ☝🏾

​​@@crowing3886if you look closely the glitching part in Miguel stolen universe is a lot diff. than what happened to pavtir's universe the glitching only happened where spot holes where located. I got a feeling that spot just teleporting objects from another universe inside Pavtir's Universe and that caused the glitching. and there's a lot of error at Miguel's Theory like how the Earth 42 still doing fine while they don't have a spider that can follow the canon event. or Gwen's father unintentionally changing his canon event by quiting his Job

🎉

Jess was having her MCU Spider-Man moment trapped under the rubble, Tony's words to Peter echoing in his head, does the suit make you Spider-Man?

i also like how when they're talking about ASM-90, the police captain dying, hobie shrugs and says "what about it?" yeah, it happened to him too, but he's acab

More spider people primed to follow his ideology, yep

@@lorettabes4553 And yet, none of Miguel's inner circle are actually Peter Parkers, it's Jess Drew, Ben Reilly, and LYLA, with Lego Spider-Man just being useful for passing on information to Miguel. But like, one of the names is an AI and the other two never got their powers through "bitten by a radioactive spider" or lost an "Uncle Ben". Miguel is still ready to trot out and co-opt the trauma of Peter Parkers though even though he'd never work with one as an equal. They're "useful idiots" to him.

The ironic thing about that statement is that pretty much all the younger, non Peter Parker spideys we've seen in the story so far are more than willing to become superheroes even without an Uncle Ben moment, highlighting that the story plays out differently for different people and that Miguel is enforcing an overly rigid way of viewing the spiderman story that only serves to worsen the lives of everyone across the multiverse. I'm not the most familiar with the entire Peter Parker story, but from my understanding, Peter Parker needs an Uncle Ben moment for him to realise that his powers shouldn't just be used for self-gain, but also to protect others and as a force for good. This explains the "most of us wouldn't be here" line by Peter B Parker. However, we've already seen that multiple, younger spideys don't even need an Uncle Ben moment to want to become a superhero. Miles in ITSV already wants to use his powers for good to save the multiverse and make sure all the other spideys make it back to their home dimension, even before his Uncle Aaron dies. Gwen is shown to already be doing good as spider-woman even before her Peter Parker dies. Pav is explicitly shown to be popular in his home dimension, even in his short 6 month stint as spiderman, showing just how much good he's been doing as spiderman without Inspector Singh dying. What's even more ironic about it is that the "canon events" aren't helpful to the younger spideys in the way that Uncle Ben was helpful as a motivator to Peter Parker at all, but have been shown to have a detrimental effect on the younger spideys it acts on. Miles losing Uncle Aaron supposedly teaches him that "he can't save everyone", but that comes at the huge cost of him losing the only person in his life that really gets him and supports him simply for who he is. We actually see the impact of Miles losing his uncle in ATSV, where his parents are shown to not be as understanding as Uncle Aaron or the same level of supporting as him. He also misses his friends dearly, the only other people who can act as that support network for him. This can be seen in Miles line "you don't even know" in response to Gwen asking him on the clock tower "How many people can you even talk to about this stuff", and Rio making the observation that Miles lights up when around Gwen, showing that he's been missing a support figure in his life like Uncle Aaron and implying that his parents simply aren't the same and haven’t been able to fill that void (in addition to the growing romantic relationship between them). Gwen losing her Peter Parker is played off as a tragic event that happens to her early in life in ATSV, and the movie doesn’t attempt to put a positive spin on what she gains from it. You could interpret that event as her moment of learning that you can’t save everyone and that she needs to be careful with her powers. However, if anything, the loss has an extremely detrimental effect on her, causing her to fall into a vicious cycle of loneliness and guilt that prevents her from forming friendships with anyone else, as well as creating a rift between her and her father, who thinks her vigilante superhero form killed Peter Parker and is actively hunting her down, right when she needs the support of her father the most. If anything, I’d argue that the impact of Peter Parker dying directly leads to the mistakes that Gwen makes with Miles during the events of ATSV, with the threat of her father hunting her down in her own dimension looming over every action she makes in the spider society and her fear of opening up to others fully (amongst other things) holding her back from really telling Miles everything she knows and fully expressing her love for Miles. We also see that letting the canon events that are supposed to play out wouldn’t benefit the spideys it plays out on at all. Miles draws strength from his complete family, as Hobie implies. Losing his father would only repeat the lesson he already learnt from the loss of Uncle Aaron, while removing yet another important support pillar from Miles’ life. Gwen losing her father would remove the final support pillar remaining in her world, which wouldn’t do anything to help her already compromised mental state. Pav losing Inspector Singh would cause him to lose a lot of the joy and innocence he has and perhaps even complicate the relationship he has with Gayatri, while doing nothing to encourage Pav as spiderman since he’s already more than enthusiastic to help everyone. Essentially, while Peter B Parker is well meaning, and perhaps the canon events were helpful for an older generation of spideys that needed the death of a loved one to motivate them into hero work, the younger generation of spideys have been shown to take up the mantle of spiderman much more readily, making the notion of canon events a sort of generational trauma that’s well meaning, but extremely harmful to the people it’s supposed to help.

@@huaen8880 This deserves to be its own comment. What a great analysis

@@ultimamage3 I wouldn't go that far. He obviously respects peter 616b and he was with him during the unraveling of the universe with his child. Not to mention all his inner circle have had similar trauma events to the rest of the peters. He views all of them as useful idiots at worst, but I believe the lack of peters is moreso sony wanting to not just rely on a bunch of them similar to how they decided to make spiderverse about miles and gwen who also aren't peters. Even the spider team thats saving miles has mostly non-peters.

One thing I love about all the spiders is how intelligence, art, and humour are all key components but they express themselves in different ways. Deception, engineering, tactics. Photography, illustration, music. Deadpan, quips, even straight-manning. Miguel stands out for not being overtly funny or artistic, but he just expresses it in different ways

the designers of the movie said the art style of Miguel and his dimension are kinda ironic since everything is sharp, pretty and utopian, but at the same time you can see the blueprint lines sticking out, as if to say that the future isn't set in stone as he believes