Wasn't he mentioned too in the Council of Elrond, briefly as an option to keep the ring safe, and idea that was immediately discarded because Tom would be just as likely to lose track of it, as he would to keep it safe.

Indeed. Seeing Tom reduced to Aragorn saying "Here are these knives" at Weathertop was disappointing

​@@zamdristTom is the only living being on which the ring has no power, so he would forget it and loose it.

Yes, that is completely true, not Tom, no slain wraith. Because it was said he could not be killed by man and neither Merry nor Eowyn was a " man".. I always loved how Tolkien just had these little things that became big things later.

Exactly, when she said Tom doesn't advance the narrative I wondered what book she read. 3 things came to my mind almost instantly.

Yeah it’s called The Holy Bible, many of Tolkien’s writings are influenced by The Holy Bible and even other writings like Homers Iliad, The Odyssey, or even Viking Norse mythologies. Tolkien was a Christian so it’s no surprise that you see themes of faith, friendship, loyalty, perseverance, and self sacrifice in a world of his own creation.

@@OddRob92 Not one single human ever thought of these types of things before someone invented religion. :D

Yes. Tolkien , when responding to letters speaks to the people like he is pondering on the same questions he is asked about. Like a man wondering about a true history. He invites you in and speaks as if he is right there with you posing guesses and trying to find a real truth or history. He NEVER is "the professor " with fans. He is one of the fans. As far as Bombadil, I think I know exactly what is going on. I will never know if I am right, or if there even IS a right or wrong to it. Iarwain Ben-adair, (sp?) Eldest and fatherless, is his name to the Elves. He is a being that the oldest Elves have known from their own awakening under the stars in Lake Cuivienen, in the age of The Lamps. He holds a Power my brother. What that power is , I think was great at one time. By the Third Age it has removed from all else save his tiny nook of the world by the Old Forest, and he will not pass that border willingly. He has turned his back on the wide world.

@@OddRob92 If Tom Bombadil is connected to the bible he could be the god that created the first things and then stepped back. So he is or was immensely powerful, but nowadays he gave up, doesn't use or lost his power. Instead he is stil around to observe and live with his creation.

@@Mike1Lawless Can you prove your claim? Show me the proof.

This is closer than anything else I've heard proposed. Great insight. It's like Tolkien's ideals built into the story, but with that hint of regret hanging over everything he wrote, that things just aren't at the happy ending yet and won't be for a long time. But let's pretend they are, in a small way, for a little while. Can you imagine how that master of unsubtlety Peter Jackson would have loused that up?

​@seanrcollier You know, Jackson's LOTR adaptations have major faults to be sure, and his Hobbit adaptations are utter garbage. But, there is no denying that he brought more people to recognize Tolkien and respect Tolkien's stories than anyone else other than Tolkien. AND he also created the LOTR movies out of love for Tolkien and did his very best to respect the stories. A far better effort than anyone else had ever even attempted prior. Contrast that to what Amazon has done.

@@jeremiah6462 Definitely all good points. I'm still going to criticize him from a place of preening moral superiority.

@@seanrcollier 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

With the Soldier Tolkien in mind, Tom Bombadil is that bizarre, brief, Christmas ceasefire between the trenches. War is Hell, but here's just one brief shining shining moment of respite and frivolity to remind everyone of their humanity and to give them a reason to carry on in the face of the atrocities of the Great War, the War to End All Wars...

Bombadil has irritated me for more than 45 years with his pointlessness. People's theories about him are always wrong, and along comes you......and you have actually solved it. Your theory makes complete sense of a character that made no sense at all. I would buy you a coffee for that, and I tip my hat to you. Enjoy the day!

@@DanBeech-ht7sw The singing is the key! When I first read LOTR, Tom was my least favorite part. I thought his whole sequence was stupid. But then after reading The Silmarillion and studying it at length, I then read LOTR again and when I got to Tom, I noticed it right away. The guy just sings all the time. I mean, it’s just obvious that he really enjoys singing…. a lot! What else could he be? I’m sure of it-he’s a purely good-natured Ainu who loved to sing and he just never stopped.

@@WarHam.Saltsmoke I never made the connection until you pointed it out. It amuses me that of course, Tolkien didn't know. Well done for developing an original, plausible theory that makes perfect sense of a random character that otherwise is just an annoyance.

I’ve heard the theory, and it’s my current head canon, that Tom is Eru Iluvatar himself. This relates to the singing but also Tom being a being of neutrality. The creator is not good or evil but “he is.” This is also my interpretation of the “don’t you know my name yet?” Line: Tom has many names and so is surprised that the hobbits do not know him.

@@paulfenton5673 "I'm no weather master, nor is aught that goes on two legs" - that would be a strange remark for Illuvatar to make. And "But he cannot alter the Ring itself, nor break its power over others." Can't see it myself.

@@stephenlaing2152 My comment said that he created the story, not that he invented everything himself.

Deliberately done for effect. His middle-earth has misty borders that fade out, hinting at unknown lands beyond. He constantly hints at and lets us glimpse things we barely understand or know little of to create the impression of vast spaces and deep histories. Outside of the Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion he left a large number of other essays and stories concerning middle-earth (all of which are in the History of Middle-Earth books), often in different modes of poetry or prose, some fully worked out and others incomplete or just snippets; and he did so consciously to mirror the way the literature of old lost cultures, like anglo-saxon or old Norse, has been lost and/or preserved in real life i.e. tantalising fragments that give us part of a lost whole, or works that regularly reference others that no longer exist.

As a matter of fact that's not far off from what really happened. That is, Tolkien spent a good deal of time writing the "bible" for Middle Earth before writing the stories themselves. Much of this has been published posthumously by his son. Anyway, it makes for a very detailed world that almost seems real. He even created the full elven language: He was a linguist by trade after all, and there are actually people in the world who can speak it fluently.

@@stephenlaing2152ost of the spiritual and theological framework of Tolkien comes from his very own Christian faith. It has mythological and Norse pagan tropes but bent toward a Christian world view. Tom Bombadil, Ungoliant, the Nameless things where all created by Eru the one and only God of Tolkien’s Legendarium. That is they aren’t just random spirits that came into being but where deliberately created by Eru.

@@stephenlaing2152 and let's not forget his best friend, C.S Lewis, who provided an enthusiastic encouragement, as well as many, many conversations about mythology, theology, and philosophy.

I like it.

theres no credible fan theories of anything

One of the few even OLDER than Gandalf!

Tom is cringe a f , good thing they removed him from the movies...

​@@bdleo300Woah bra 😮that was deep as fu... 🤯

I liked that idea more when it was Glorfindel or Beregond and his son who were brought in shortly just to serve the small, but incredibly important role of humanising the world. They also fit better in the pacing. At the point Tom is introduced, there's so much stuff going in and so much momentum starting to build that just hammering the brakes for 3 chapters only gives me narrative whiplash. We also don't need something like this yet, because we've already at this point met a lot of characters that serve functionally no purpose. Characters like the Gaffer, Sandyman the miller and farmer Maggot aren't exactly brought into the story because they're integral to destroying the ring, but their inclusion flowed much better than Tom did.

That made you cry, jesus

@@dain6492 yeah? Couple of tears of joy? So?

I agree with you, it's a great moment. After all that happened, a well deserved rest.

​@@dain6492I hate how some people get joy from diminishing other peoples feelings. There must be something ugly inside them. My hope is that they will find the reason and become better persons one day.

Surely not that ancient!

Beautiful.😅😅

The Worlds Most Elegantly Wasted Man. They don't make 'em . . . . . . . . .

In the beginning there was Tom Bombadil, Keith Richards and Jesse Ventura.

Or Joe Biden.

Yeah, my reread is really making me think about how publication standards have changed so much that really great older books wouldn't have been published now, or would have been missing beautiful and meaningful passages. It's a shame

Tom reminds me that we must forget the ultimate Truth in order to make this imagined world something that we can get excited about. He is a reminder that we are just playing out our parts in a dream. In Reality, everything is perfectly alright. Play the game, have some fun, it's okay. There is really nothing in this world worth fighting about; but forgetting the Truth and playing our parts does serve some purpose that will remain a mystery, for now, so as not to ruin its purpose, whatever that is. I think that we are all so incompetent that we would hardly persist if not for constant, divine intervention; but most see that not and somehow think that we are oh so clever in our ignorance. There is a master of the terrarium.

Wow, this is a fantastic point! I hadn't thought of that, thanks so much for sharing.

The point is made that to Bombadil the Ring was irrelevant; his magic isn't connected with that wielded by the forces of light and darkness, his is the force of nature itself, without ego.

The central motif of the Lord of the Rings is that "some weapons CANNOT be used for any cause". The act of using them destroys the cause itself. Tom IS nature. The One Ring is quite literally useless to him; Nature needs no weapons. Tom is just as likely to leave the Ring somewhere as he is to place it on his Wife's finger. I respectfully also suggest that Part Time Hobbit is quite wrong about Tolkien's view on nature; He spent a lot of time in rural Birmingham ensconced in nature and ever fearful of the damaging effects of industrialisation - another fairly central theme to LotR. To claim that nature was as alien as outer space to Tolkien is preposterous! Sincerely - A Full Time Hobbit. (An Englishman and a Worcestershire man)

I believe he is somewhat of a self-insert. But it's also an important step in the hero's journey. It is a moment of peace and refection before the main struggle, allowing the heroes time to rest, to realise what it is they are fighting for, and to gather the resolve and fortitude to go forth. He literally arms them with the weapons they'll need to succeed.

...and then the birds came.

I think that's definitely an aspect of the character! Tolkien loved the natural world so much.

I was coming to say something similar. He is nature and isn't bothered with humans or elves or their Gods. Not that he is bad in anyway. He's just so big and primal that humans are insignificant. He couldn't even benefit from the ring because he doesn't want anything. He just is.

There's another video where someone observed, and I quote: --- In LOTR universe there are 5 kinds of people : No powers, hero powers, magic powers, overpowered and hilariously godly overpowered. And then... there's Tom bombadil, who could have just simply walked/danced into mordor, punch sauron in the face, kick melkor in the nuts and be back before lunch time all while wearing the ring as a piercing on his dick. If only he gave a fuck.

@@kingbeauregard Hah hah, that is brilliant!

Tolkien was a heathen at heart.

A rose by any other name. Labels don’t say much, but from Tao/Zen perspective of an entity living with and as nature, as a song in a song, and always having been around, then a name might be enough. He who is. Welcome to the grounds. Your room is over there. That is Jonathan, the careraker and farmhand, that’s William, the farmer and owner of the estate with wife Jane and children Richard and Anna, that is Sarah, the house keeper, that is Donovan, the cook, and that, well that Tom. He’s always been here. Can I take your bag?

I'm thinkin' his voice would be a bit deeper.

@@yourhandlehere1, yes, Tom's voice would've been a nice earthy baritone or bass.

​@@rksnj6797 according to..?

Joe, if u r indeed german, there is a rly awesome audioplay (hörspiel), produced by the WDR, in 1992 Top voice actors, top sound design... And top pick for Tom. A deep, warm, and cozy voice. like a chubby monk...somehow... The part where he scolds the willow is just perfect. And of course... "Heh, Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadonne... Hör den Ruf, eile her, bei Feuer, Mond und Sonne, Komm, bei Wasser, Wald und Flur. Steh uns nun zur Seite. Komm bei Weide, Schilf und Ried, aus der Not uns leite!" *-*

I love Tom Bombadil and I struggle to know exactly why

I like that. It’s almost like he’s a still pool, a little bit of peace amongst the chaos.

Just a kind wish for you. I suffered a TBI (serious brain tumor and surgery) a few years ago, and will never fully recover. One doctor reassured me that "You have tremendous cognitive reserve." At which point my niece, serving as recorder and explainer of the appointment, leaned over and said "That means you're really smart." Not a day goes by a don't thank my love of reading for that cognitive reserve! Sending you continued healing and peace.

⁠@@JulieAiken and JD80 To both of you, I wonder if you’ve explored homeopathy for help healing!? Please, it would be worth going to an experienced classical homeopath for help. I’ve seen it work well with these injuries. My very best to you both!

@@louisegogel7973 Thanks - I’ll look into it!

With Tolkien being a solider in the Great War, and him describing Tom Bombadil as a “comment” in one of his letters, I think your description is almost certainly the closest to Tolkiens true meaning of Tom Bombadil. I think Tom is the embodiment of peace in a world consumed with war, aggression and sin. I think Toms inclusion was Tolkien’s way of showing that even in the darkest of times it is possible to remain pure and undefined.

I have walked to South America, with no money (before personal phones) and I did not speak Spanish. I have experimented with "no care for the 'morrow". I have trusted only the smiling approval of my guardian angels (who only approve of 'absolute good") and accepted that I will not die unless to die, at that moment, were a good thing. I have been rescued by intervention so many times that it is impossible for me to feel alone. Have fun. Make good stories for the after-death party.

That comment about Bombadil and the ring being irrelevant to him comes from Gandalf during the Council of Elrond chapter, when the question is raised whether they could give it to Bombadil. :)

I like that idea. It darkens the whole narrative even more.

In Tolkien's world age was power. That fact-oid was put in to demonstrate T.B.'s deep history and disconnection from the issues even of the pretty damn ancient Sindar (Elves).

The ring is able to put the wearer into the “wraith world”, or into the “unseen”. Things in the Unseen world are visible to others in the Unseen.… That’s why the ring wraiths can see Frodo when he puts in the ring, and Frodo can see them clearly (instead of just that showy figure that they appear to be in the Seen world). It seems more like Tom is in both the Seen and Unseen worlds at the same time? or he can clearly see both… ? or who knows… maybe he exists outside of both of them but projects himself? He just, IS

I think Tom might be an unnamed Maiar or one of the unrecognized/lost blue Istari.

Puck of Pooks Hill (Kipling) has a lot in common. I'm sure Tolkien had read this, and Rewards and Fairies.

Same for me!

The same thing I wondered about When I read it as a young teenager in about’75 or ‘76 Went to rest and unwind.

1:20 - I, WOULD, HAVE MADE, TOM, a FRIGHTENING-character - TO MAKE him WORK in the MOVIE-!! AHHAHHA-!!

That is the power of Tolkien, he understands what makes us feel good.

This video came up as a suggestion. I figured I’d give it a watch. That singing has me subscribed. I was very pleasantly surprised.

Well said and well observed.

JRR said that he is not Tom. But JRR also spoke as if he did not make up the story, he is just telling it. Maybe JRR is Tom and just does not know that himself? It is a divinely revealed mythology. That is the gift of the story, to me, and I love it. It gives me solace in this world and it does not need to be the same to anyone else. Thank you, God. I am Tom. My life is better with that. I am at peace. May you also be.

Not, however, as old as (some of) the tales which would become the Silmarillion proper: those go back to his illness during his service in WWI, when he wrote the first version of (at least) "The Fall of Gondolin;" long before the Dutch doll entered the Tolkien household -- before, indeed, the children were born -- the "Book of Lost Tales," as it was originally called, was very much a thing in its own right.

Perhaps one day all of us will be so blessed as to move beyond the duality to that view of his as well. Maybe then peace will be.

Absolutely. Tolkien drew massively from european folk law. He never made any bones about that and I don't think he claimed that there was any novely in his characters/races/wizards etc - his genius was in the plot the cultural backgrounds and the languages.

OP gigachad god character lol

Some scholars say that Tom Bombadil and Goldberry are "Maia gone native." That description may actually not be far from the truth. Maybe Bombadil and Goldberry took the Last Ship to the Undying Lands some time in the later Fourth Age?

@@Sacto1654 Maybe... I sort of doubt it though. Tom is the Master of his lands. For him to go to the Undying Lands, where either someone else is Master, or they'd clash.... doesn't seem right to me.

Tolkien was probably on some strong weeds (and mushrooms) when he wrote Tom...

​@@Sacto1654No, Tom was there even before the Valar came to Middle Earth, so he can't be a Maiar. As well another enigma character, Ungoliant, showed themselves to be powerful enough to nearly kill a Valar, Melkor, and shroud themselves from all the others. This is not something a Maiar could do. Gandalf, another Maiar, was scared to hold the ring, but Tom was unaffected by it.

Tom is Tolkien.

@@FortescueGimlet Incorrect.

@@FortescueGimlet Ah, since you knew him so well; I guess I have to bow to your direct empirical knowledge. (Not!)

@@FortescueGimlet My point exactly. You have none, I have none; you're opining the same as me, so piss off and quit acting like you actually possess knowledge.

This is a good take. Also I think it plays well in showing how unique hobbits are on there ability to rest and find joy in any opportunity to do so, drinking in the moments as they come. Its hard to imagine any other race of middle earth finding the same rest and carefree moments in the house of Tom. Habits truly are amazing creatures.

but Tom does not seem to have universal ideas - he seems nice and protective but very whimsical. Aragorn looks very different to Tom. Frodo already trusts elves and Gandalf; and has Bilbo's stories

Tom's role in the story will in most cases just bring up more questions and confusion, especially when adapting the story to the TV screen. You could argue it teaches the hobbits to trust the goodness in others, but I would argue this doesn't really work when Tom is such a strange enigma far detached from any othet character in the story. Tom isn't a good representation of others, only Tom is like Tom. He also doesn't really do the "right thing", he is carefree and unaffected by the rings power, but he is also established as very naive and unconcerned about anything going on in the world outside of his bubble. With no sense of duty, responsibility or purpose

@@merlith4650 Tolkien didn't write with any consideration for translation to other media. Tom was also the entryway into the unexplained/unknown parts of Middle Earth.

Sounds awesome. Copyright is difficult...

Soundcloud is pretty loose.

Torrent will work if you want to go around the copyright. If you need help with it let me know.

@@kumoyuki I think this is the way

I recommend archive.org

As a Brit this is the part that feels most recognisable and comforting.

Have You done a virtual you tube walk of the Malvern Hills which Tolkien Based Weather too on? Tolkien walked there frequently is beautiful. Enjoy.

Years before, I had always pictured Tom Bombadil being played by Robin Williams.

@@thelionsshare6668 Oh, wow. You are correct. That could have been brilliant.

I thought it to be such weak sauce that Jackson left Tom out of the movie. Somehow make AN ENTIRE MOVIE out of an appendage but completely avoid a major presence from the book. Oh well...

Superbly said! I had that same response to the character as soon as I encountered him for the first time when I read the books, and my admiration for and fascination with him grew as I finished the trilogy. That he and Goldberry could exist peacefully and fruitfully completely unaffected by all the forces whirling around them...I just loved that image.

​@@thelionsshare6668 I always thought Brian Blessed would have been perfect. But I can see Robin Williams doing it justice too

I was the same way. After I thought about it Tom really didn't have much of anything to do with the story. Of course, he did save the Hobbits from the Wrights and the old tree.

Reading takes far longer than watching, having another horror and unexpected rescue, followed by a safe break adds to the possibilities in the world. A film, even a long one has to focus and cannot afford what is essentially a digression. They do use Willow to introduce Trebeard, the Ents are similarly ancient powers but inactive.

I wanted him cut and was glad they did it. I love The Eldest, but he doesn't advance the narrative at all, he's super confusing and mysterious, and nothing, from his look to his dialogue, translates well to film. Not to mention at this point they are just beginning to build up the power and lure of the Ring. Having Tom just casually dismiss it would destroy that.... and rather than listening to morons say "WhY dIdN't ThEy JuSt FlY tHeRe On ThE eAgLeS!" we'd also have to hear the same idiots asking "Why not just give it to that forest pimp dude from earlier?"

Fair enough, as long as we all can admit that the movies are unfaithful, I can see your point

@@logisticsnerd9699 I think unfaithful is the wrong word. They aren't perfect duplicates of the books, no movie ever is, but they are relatively accurate, and I think capture the spirit of Tolkien's world perfectly.

My theory also hold to Tom being the Song of Creation, but, not so much personified, as a medium by which it can enter into the world... not a moving stone (which is action), but the gatherer of moss, through whom the theories take hold into the world, he consorts with Goldberry, who is the crystalized personification/avatar of life that's within nature, but himself, he is beyond time and even living... he understands creation not because he was part of it being made (though he was), but because understanding is his nature, he understands nature in thesame way fish understand swimming, in thesame way we breath... Aidh fa Vm'naes Mn'ningvlo!

My personal take too. We first meet Tom as a song.

In Letters, Tolkien said he is not Erú, if Im not mistaken.

The Bunagaya spirits of red hair might have connection to this

Tom was a character he created before LOTR and he just stuck him in the story

Not saying to be difficult but, maybe he isn't a being - he just "is" as Goldberry says, which can't be dated.

And that's a clue to who Tom really is.

My sense to. That tom is manifestation of Tolkien himself

@@archangelgabriel5316 I'd never thought of that, but yes, it makes perfect sense. He was there before any of Middle-Earth, knows it perfectly, and nothing in it has any power whatsoever over him. The embodiment of the Narrator.

This is a fascinating idea!

If someone ever asked Tolkien a question about Middle Earth that he hadn't written about yet, he wouldn't say anything like "I'll think about that" or "I'll come up with something." It was "I'll find out," as though it was a truth that already existed and was waiting for him to research it.

The tree that falls in the forest always makes a sound because Tom Bombadil is there to hear it?

@@jameshill2450 thats part of the gimmick Tolkien used for the Legendarium. In the History of Middle Earth you can read the story of Eriol the Mariner, also called Aelfwine. He was a direct descendant of Earendil. In the 10th or 11th centuries (I forget which), he was allowed to travel the straight road to the Undying Lands and land on Tol Erresia. There the Elves told him tales and songs of the Elder days and the lost ages of the world. He came back and wrote all that down in old English. Eventually "Tolkien found it and translated it", which included among other things, The Red Book and other stuff".

toms more like being outside or parallel to iluvatar - outside of any creation or creations of iluvatar - outside of the story. what sauron does wont affect him and neither will what anyone else does.

I like this. Better than the idea that he would be Eru or Tolkien himself. An untouchable concept personified is what I experience with Tom, and Joy is a good candidate.

I believe the video is: Who is Tom Bombadil by In Deep Geek for those interested

I disagree. I think it was just a bit of fluff in a period when he was writing before WW II and he was basically still in a 'the hobbit' mindset rather than a WW II holocaust mindset - like most of the rest of the book.

There is a great video lecture on ArchtypalView channel The Red Book and The Red Book,Jung,Tolkien,and the Convergence of Images on you tube.

I had the same interpretation, that Tom is Nature and hence entirely uninterested in the ring.

At first I thought he was one of the wizards sent over along with Gandalf, the blue wizards, etc but years later after re-reading the story I came to the conclusion that he and Goldberry were like nature made manifest. Goldberry reminded me of a daughter of Gaia archtype and Tom the manifestation of the power of nature in a neutral way.

I ones heard a theory that Tom Bombadill is actually the creator, Eru Ilúvatar, in a form of that looks that of a man. While it has some potential, I'm not entirely convinced of this either. Maybe it is as the saying goes. "Some mysteries are better left unsolved."

The ring has no meaning to Tom. He would be just as likely to leave it on the ground somewhere as anything else.

Vala.

It’s also possible that Tom IS Middle Earth in an Avatar form.

I think he was one of those who sung world into being. A metaphysics Tolkien shared with Moondog, the world is song made flesh.

Totally disagree, the film missed the mark in too many ways to count.

Agree and perhaps a virtual walk of the Malvern Hills which Tolkien Based Weather Top on would be interesting?

Same here 😁

Great comment on a great video 🙏

World building is a lost art these days.

I have speculated about what would have been the impact of Tolkien if he had only written The Fellowship. It would certainly have a smaller audience, but I think it would have been considered an enigmatic masterpiece. When I last read LotR I wasn't motivated to read the rest. Imagine the scholarly and fan debates that would have taken place in that world! Imagine how different you and I and all Tolkien fans would be!

​@@cult_of_odingame of thrones

Always makes me wonder who "she" is.

Holy shit!!! 40 years reading Tolkien and I never even really noticed that!! In fact "Fog on the Barrow Downs" is one chapter that for some reason I blaze thru. I have no idea why, but I do. When I read the Hobbit as a kid in 5th grade, LotR in Jr. High, The Silmarillion in H.S. and then grabbed every single thing Christopher kept putting out year by year and all things Tolkien, I read the Big Three, Hob, Lord, Sil. Beginning on Thanksgiving and ending with Christmas every single year, for roughly 40 years. I saw your comment and it hit me. I speed read that chapter every single time!! Wow, WTH? heh. Take care friend.

@@gib59er56 The fog messes with your thoughts while you're in it :P maybe it messed with yours too?

@@RenTheCrow Fair enough!! That could be the case!!

❤

Only 42? Rookie.

@@penultimateh766 So now I am curious. How long have you been a Tolkien fan?

Thanks for that, I'd forgotten that term 'deus ex machina', which is embarassing since I think I studied Euripides a long time ago. But thats exactly what I was thinking. I was working on a paper on the 'politics of literature' and thinking about the fact that in western literature, in fact MOST 'literature' we seem to only ever focus on ONE protagonist. I had heard two disparate things, one was from Bruce Lee who pointed out that films are fine but he said that its essentially impossible no matter how good a fighter to actually win against two opponets, let alone three. And yet how many movies are exactly that. So I was thinking, what if Frodo had told all the hobbits about the ring. They probably wouldn't have believed, but some would. So they made a plan to make a hundred rings that LOOK like the one ring. And a HUNDRED groups of four hobbits set out in every direction. What could nine riders do? Not a lot. Wars, as they say, are won by soldiers, not heroes, for lack of a better word. But in literature you have to focus on ONE protagonist. Therefore you HAVE to fill the story with these 'deus ex machina's' in order to show both how special the protagonist is, and that the outcome is plausible...usually by luck. Bombadil really only saves them from a tree, something anybody coudl have done. His 'purpose' is more to show the ring does not work on 'the world'. Its a made thing, not of the world, and so the world will always win out. Thats a theory I'm thinking of. That makes 'middle earth' the actual protagonist. The heroes who give themselves over to the earth 'win' in some sense, the sense being that the world goes on, even when they get multiple wounds. Thats why he's not only my favourite character, sort of liek Beorn in the Hobbit, but he's essential to the story.

Luthien and Beren go back to Tolkiens earliest writings from 1917. Fall of Gondolin.

One of Tolkiens bigest hobbies, was Norse mythology! He borrowed heavily from it when he created his fantasy world. And God in Tolkiens world was Eru, also called Iluvatar. And Tom Bombadill was later revealed to be one of the minor Valars.

@@hotel3667 "was later revealed to be one of the minor Valars" -- Where was this revealed? I missed the memo!

I like the “Bombadil is God” idea. Not necessarily inconsistent with “Eru is God” - maybe just another incarnation / avatar. (Gods are not bound by the usual rules.) Also compatible with being Tolkien, who is God as far as Middle Earth is concerned.

The god theory is rejected by Tolkien himself. Tolkien made it clear that "There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World". It wouldn't really make sense anyway, as Tom Bombadil is certainly powerful to some respect, but he doesnt strike me as all-powerful. While he is unaffected by the ring, it was specifically established in the book that he can't affect or destroy the ring himself, and that he is too carefree to be trusted in helping the cause of the council as his naive nature and seemingly oblivious attitude towards the conflict between light and dark, wouldn't make him reliable in taking care of the ring. Which wouldn't be consistent with Tolkien's view of Eru, who is very much against the darkness and evil, just like God is opposed to the devil and the forces of hell. But his influence operates indirectly and through some abstract and interpretive "divine intervention" (just like the the Christian's perception of God)

This! So different to cunningly contrived plots where every piece will come back in its appointed time. Tolkien's pieces have their own agendas which the reader may never know and half the time I don't think he did either. Unique work.

Indeed

I think this is a major reason why Tolkien's world seems so real. It's vastly greater than the story that unfolds within it, with detailed lore, lands, creatures, languages and events existing outside of it.

The only part I found utterly annoying, is the damn talking fox, from the Fellowship of the ring. Only appeared once, and is completely unrelated to the rest of the story. Very out of place.

Oh that's a good point!

Interesting 😮

Yes and no. The whole thing is in Silmarilion. Song of Iluvatar. Details might have varied depending on choices by created beings. But the arc of the universe was the song

@Telleva anti-christ? :D. interesting that you put your religion into this world.

Actually as I see it Sauron's downfall and eventual doom started the moment he had the desire to control and dominate others when he could not even control himself. That was why he had already failed and lost the ring many generations before Good ol' Tom Bombadil even touched the ring.

I think you mean a ray of sunshine 😂

@shorgoth _YESS!!!_ 🎯 _PRECISELY SO!!!_ 🎯

Yep, just hanging out, enjoying a little corner of his creation😎

As a child, I used to find him a wistful & eternal wizard of sorts. As I grew older, I found him to be a wise sage within the whole story arc that seems part of the whole. These days...as I grew wiser & read more Tolkien works; I saw Tom Bombadil as a character within the story who was a personification of JRR Tolkien himself...as he wrote his story.🤔😎 Hardcore "Ringer" here🤓

The Ainur did not create elves and men. They were created directly by Iluvatar. The Dwarves were created by a member of the Ainur but Iluvatar did not allow them to "awaken" till the elves had.

@@michaelcooper5677 True, I've worded what I wanted to say it kinda badly. Because from what I remember Eru instructed the Ainur to create elves and men but they still helped to sing/play them into existence following Eru's lead (might be wrong on this one though). Either way my headcanon still works since Iluvatar did show them how to create the music before they all went on to create Arda and the races in it. It also works in the sense that if we consider Eru to be a kind of stand in for Tolkien himself that he would create Tom before anything else since in real life the character of Tom also existed before the rest of the legendarium. :)