it would have been funny if he was in the movie

Its also worth to remember that Tom Bombadil was created way before LOTR, and the Hobbit, it was a character of a poem. So in a way it was "created" before Iluvatar :D it may well be just an "Easter egg" of sorts of its own previous creation and that became a wonderful addition. And I think that the power the ring has over someone is not related to the power of the user but somehow on how much can offers to the wearer how much can tempt him/her, is not that tempting for a hobbit because hobbits usually don't seek power; I think the ring has no power over Tom because the ring has nothing to offer to him, Tom doesn't "want" stuff, has the power that he needs no more, no less; live as he please. I like the fact that he transcend all the drama and the fact that he doesn't share "who" he is is because he doesn't care, all you need to know about him is that he is who he is, nothing behing the curtain, all about him that is important is in plain sight, the rest is unimportant. I really like Tom Bombadil.

The theory I came up with a few decades ago was that Tom and Goldberry were in fact Tulkas and Nessa. They maintain a window/doorway to The West through which Tom and Goldberry can see, but no one else can. The Entwives were summoned to the Old Forest to insure that the whole species wasn't obliterated. Eventually, The Man Ents would find their hidden Entwives and have the choice of staying in Middle-Earth, or passing through Tom's portal into The West. Since no Ent would ever want to get onto a ship of sawed planks, and they were needed across The Sea, Tom and Goldberry were tasked with maintaining a doorway, until The Ents' work was done in Middle-Earth. That's not canon, but whatever.

I find it likely that Tom is something as old as the Valar and Maiar, perhaps a side-effect of the Song who didn't come about entirely by design, or perhaps even existed independently outside the machinations of gods. There's some form for this in-story of Ungoliant and the like. This seems reflected also in comments regarding Tom's ability to withstand the Ring, but only whilst in his domain, and not in the face of a fully restored Sauron knocking at his gates. It at least gives us some idea of the extent of his power in any case.

Tolkien put himself as Tom into his own books.

I thought this the entire time! Maybe Tom is Tolkien's idea of a perfect life, living in peace in his own little paradise with a beautiful wife, forever.

Sort of like Stan Lee is "The One Above All." I can see that.

I often thought this as well. Makes a lot of sense the author putting himself in his own story.

He said himself in LOTR was Faramir and no one else

I personally kind of think that Tolkien is much like Bilbo Baggins. Both went away on an unexpected journey (like the Quest to Erebor for Bilbo and the First World War for Tolkien), ending up as an old, well respected writers who lived a happy life until the end of their days. This and the Bombadil-Tolkien theory are both possible ways that he has embedded himself into his own writing.

Theory: What if Tom Bombadil took the ring to Mordor but instead of destroying it he just bitch slapped Sauron out of existence.

hahahaha exactly. He cares less than Thranduil :P

@Nicky Bobby lol The idea they removed Tom from the movies so as to keep everyone unenlightened is hogwash nonsense. He also didn't create Middle Earth.

@Nicky Bobby he can’t be the “God” and “Creator” of Middle Earth though, because that’s Eru already

@Nicky Bobby I do agree with that. I believe Tom is an anomaly of sorts in the world of Middle-Earth, one who cannot be quantified by any definitions or laws of the world we are aware of. In a way, I think he is outside of even Eru’s influence and creation; that is why the One Ring, and the powers of Sauron and Melkor have no effect on him. That would also explain his state as he “is”, neither entirely good nor evil, allied with neither Eru nor Melkor, but merely existing in his own plane.

I could imagen that

And the ring lay forever lost, in the back of Tom's nightstand drawer.

@@danielshafer1212 The problem is that the ring is like a tracker device of today broadcasting its position and letting a device know it is around to be found. It is the tracker tech of fantasy.

​@@thefrener794except that the ring cannot be found by any specific person. It's more like a constantly ringing alarm clock. (FYI in the books neither sauron nor the nazgul can feel the presence of the ring, special magical circumstances not withholding)

​@@thefrener794that's not really how it works in the books.

I like this theory. Tom Bombadil standing completely apart of the whole world, having fun, singing and dancing, master of his own realm because he is not only a creation of Tolkien, but a friend. And as a true friend, he has free reign on Tolkien's creation because he can be trusted not to mishandle it and let it unfold as it is, with the privilege of being there himself to witness in person. It's even a beautiful thought if you think about it, that such a deep creative mind such as Tolkien would still hold his favorite toy with such regard as to give him the premier seat to witness his most beloved creation.

interesting theory

Tom bombadill is confirmed eldritch being lol

I like this theory also. And it begs the question, who and what is Goldberry? She seems to be his match and is comfortable with who and what he is which could be a sign she is his equal.

XD this comment has so few replies. The one a couple above about Tom being Tolkien has like 340.

Tom Bombadil is doing fine 100% of the time.

Drax -"Why is Tom Bombedil?"

When is Tom Bombadil?

Wasn't there a whole song about merry he is?

Well, that's pretty predictable; he's invariably happy, cheery, and singing.

Too few has read this comment.

If the ainur was the offspring of Erus thought, maby bombadill is the offspring of Erus unconscious? Since he is master, free to roam as the unconscious..

LOL! Well said!

He's Tolkien himself then if he was there before Eru and the story ever began.

Tom Bombadil preceded the universe... meaning he may have been the sole survivor of the previous one! Tom Bombadil = Galactus, CONFIRMED!! XD

Hi same, I kind of think he represents purity and total love and can't be touched by the darkness of the world .💚🌿💚🍁💝🌻🍀🌹🌞💜🍀🙏💖

I was listening to the audiobook while I was at work, and the sudden change in tone and pase just totally felt like the hobbit, because I listened to it right before starting the Lord of the rings

This is exactly what I thought after watching this video. In the same way that the ring didn't possess the River Anduin when it lay there, it doesn't affect Tom. But when all elves, dwarves, and men fall, the last for Sauron to destroy is Arda itself.

@@JPHandel But it is said Morgoth corrupted Arda itself, while Tom Bombadil is not suggested to have been corrupted

That's the conclusion I reached, watching the video. From the way he protected the hobbits, like a tree or a cave offering a place for travelers to rest and hide; to the way he was described by the council as disinterested in the affairs of the people*, with his way of support being a temporary mean(like the ground that offers a place for beings to hide their belongings while at the same time offering no resistance to the enemy of such beings who knew where to look or accidentally stumbled upon). It can be explained that the discord song of the Valar ended up inadvertently creating a slit of magic that allowed the earth to be extended and personified, though without any changes to its spirit. It even works with the fact that Sauron would eventually be able to best Tom, if he ever recovered his power. Sauron's goal, after all, was having absolute control of middle earth. *The way he was described as showing no interest in intervening almost gave him an air of blue and orange eldritch morality. To him, having someone beg on their knees for him to keep the object responsible for deciding the course of history was like if one of us got approached by someone on the street and asked to hold on to a grain of sand they picked up. It's kind of like that Jennifer Lawrence movie, Mother, but less humanized or human like. Who knows? Maybe Tom's form, boundary, actions and speech were all just the hobbits' and other children of Eru's perception of a form they were comfortable with, though not exactly the whole deal.

@@FrenkieWest32 Because Morgoth's corruption was still Arda. The idea of the corruption of Morgoth only works if you look at it through a lens focused on what was meant to be and what it became instead. Tom Bombadil is beyond a plan of a definition. He just is, like the ground of middle earth itself. He'd still be Tom, no matter who ruled or how it was molded. Sure, Sauron would be capable of having dominion over him, since his plan is to have complete control of everything inside a certain boundary, but if he ever fell and became someone else's, Tom would belong to that being as he belonged to Sauron.

@@spirit.ofthe.harvestmoon morgoths corruption wasn't Arda, morgoth corrupted Arda. Not the same thing. And you're talking a bit too matter of factly about this theory for my taste.

hahahaha great!

Best theory so far.

😂

"Hey man, who is that on your couch?" "He is."

And Ungoliant?

Thats actually a very valid theory

You just blew my mind!

Many thanks for this! Perfect :)

I think you have come up with the definitive description of Tom Bombadil. I would add that it has been great fun for people fond of the tales of all things Tolkien, to try and fathom of who and what Tom is.

This is exactly what I see in Tom. He's oldest because out of universe he actually is. He doesn't "belong" in lord of the rings but he's there. Tolkien wanted to find a place for him somewhere and so Tom just showed up. I think yours is the most likely/accurate "theory"

I had a similar idea. Father Time and Mother Nature

@@dawnv3436Father Time and Mother Nature is exactly who I always imagined them as. Even though Tolkien may have never intended that

That's the theory that's always made sense to me. After all, a big metaphorical aspect of LOTR is Tolkien lamenting the rurality of his upbringing becoming gradually destroyed by industrialisation, but go to any old (even ancient) rural church in England, as Tolkien surely often did, and a bearded Green Man with a curious, slightly mirthful, slightly knowing expression will be watching you froma ceiling boss, or a hidden corner, or as a gargoyle or grotesque. The Green Men are the ancient, silent, almost hidden guardians of 'Green and Pleasant' Albion, here long before us, and doubtless long after us.

This is so obvious to me from the text! If you read it literally, it's almost too easy to figure out. People assume it's way more complicated than that.

I really like this one. Very creative and an easy plausible explanation.

This is gold. Imagine having that kind of family secret, the rest of the world wondering what he really is, only for him to be a reminder that his children heard about him first hahah

@@ZPtyy It's a fun idea, but when I read Tolkien in the '60's, I remember Tom talking with Bilbo and then Frodo, and then (I think) Frodo and Sam came upon him in a tree, trapped. He told them vital information, so I thought he should be featured in the films, but hey...

@@joypresleyify As is, they were trapped and he released them. If you can find a source for what you said, it would be very interesting.

Such a dwarf thing... I want to believe is like that

800

I couldn't like cause IM FROM 63rd

@@pauldelivera2847 a king von reference on a lotr lore video. Never, ever thought id see the day

Like a warm up key before "go"?!

❤

"God cannot be tempted by evil" (James 1:13)

I completely agree. Also he being a part of the complete story which is the song of the ainur, he is a helpful harmonic piece that helps the song go in the direction that iluvatar created

This!

I think Tom represents story telling for the sake of simply telling a story. Every other character has some deeper meaning to the story. Every other character moves the plot along. Not Tom... Tom is just there for fun. If any character represents Tolkien himself it's Gandalf, not Tom. In the end Gandalf goes to talk with Tom because Tom is what a story should be like, simple childish fun for the pure sake of having childish fun.

Yes, well put.

Tom Bombadil is also kind of the exception that proves the rule. LOTR is so rich and real because every character and event has a backstory and lineage to the creation of the world itself. Tom is unique in that he was an opportunity to throw in a likable character for yucks and giggles and not have to provide an explanation or lore.

That is why he exists.

Debatable if that is a cool moment or just ruins and diminishes the struggle all other characters go through. No matter what theories we have in papper, Tom Bombadil is a reminiscent character from the hobbit, wich was written as a children's book as gift to Tolkien son. He has no place in a more mature book like the Lord of the rings and even if looked at as a call back connecting the books it is still out of place.

@@Jowjoneking Yea, I can already see you will out-write Tolkien lol. Stfu.

@@Jowjoneking iirc Tom, as a character, is one of Tolkein's oldest. Before The Hobbit. But your point is, in my estimation, a silly one. What Tolkein did was create an entire universe that's all interconnected, so his older characters "belong" in his world just as much as new characters. I would even go so far as to say there's no distinction to be made between new and old characters, because it's a living world where they all exist together.

@@Jowjoneking There's nothing wrong with a lighthearted character early in the story that deepens the world's mystery

this has a real-life practicality to it.

Exactly what I was thinking. Was glad to see it already written.

then why did gandalf speak to him for 2 years?

No . He is Tolkien

@@jesusoftheapes Tolkien, being the author of the story, would have the power to change anything in it. Tom doesn't.

Thats just Tom. Just ignore him.

Bombadil is the Eminem of the LOTR universe, he dissed those barrow wights so hard that they seized to exist.

@@G31M1 *ceased

@@G31M1 gross

@@G31M1 lmao

the green man is in my pantheon of pagan beliefs, and i just described him to my wife the other day "think jolly green giant... but not a giant"

He is a time-share fraudster! I knew it!!!

Like the Watcher of the Water.

I like that Tolkien didn’t explain everything, whether intentionally or not, because trying to formulate theories and make sense of certain things is really awesome and fun

That would fit with, "he is".

@@michami135 well, not exactly. As he points out in the video, “He is” is the classic deity claim. Which is why some insist that he is Eru Himself, incarnate. But no, that doesn’t fit either 🤷‍♂️

Tom is Tom but what exactly is he. He cannot be man or Elve.

Original theory made no sense because if he loved the world he'll be against evil because it was destroying the world and not remain neutral to it

or maybe a GT existing under ZM for never forgetting when the ME was LL

Awesome!!!!

@@SixSioux That's extra funny coming from you, RC. But if you came down here to make fun of my Dungeons and Dragons joke in the comment section of a video about the esoteric debate over the nature of an obscure fantasy character, you may be playing to the wrong crowd.

That hits home Thaddeus. While I've not done it I've sure given up retired characters for other Storytellers to use in their future stories. It's great fun when I have the chance to check in with them and catch up on my creations.

Enjoy your 420th like, sir.

The green man exists in Philadelphia. Also known as Charlie.

I'll do you one better, why is Tom Bombadil?

@@thedarknesscallingme Nobody ever asks how is Tom Bombadil. Sad.

@@Highonwater3X because everyone knows he is happy and care-free all the time.

@@dr.vikyll7466 (this maybe a bit too real) Just because he puts up the charade of being happy doesn’t mean he actually is aka depression you act happy but in fact you are sad

The first rule of the afterlife: Don’t talk about Tom Bombadil

Goldberry is awesome

Its how God answered Moses when he asked what his name was; 'I am that I am'.

Peter Jackson: "No, he isn't."

Susumu Hirasawa

oooh I like this. mixing #4 with your theory -- an unintended consequence of Melkor's dissonance and Eru's effort to correct it, could have momentarily created a strange harmony that didn't exactly fit anyone's purpose, but nevertheless is a part of the music. that dang circle of 5ths, it can come back around and get ya, lol. Tom lives in harmony with all things the music created, as he was created with it, yet his particular harmony was not intended by either party, so he simply exists as a part of the music but not for anyone's specific purpose, Eru or Melkar.

like if you have two people play random music on two pianos, eventually at some point harmonies will appear unintentionally. And if harmony is the medium of creation, well then when you've got two musicians battling for control over the music in real time, it's sensible to think that there could have been a few unintended harmonies in the mix before Eru smoothed it back out. Harmony without purpose, it just exists on its own.

I wanted to know more about him tho.

Yep, he was BSing in that letter

Nah I’m pretty sure his mastery was the insane detail in lore and language and the great stories that came from that.

@@SnailHatan not mutually exclusive.

Textual ruins! Anyone know what was the deal with the cats of Queen Beruthial?

I mean rings on the pinky symbolize wealth and status of importance

@@HobbitOfChaos Nice

True...never thought of that!

Maybe she described him how Tom has to be like in the story, just being a happy man living his own in the forest and cannot be harmed by any means, and Tolkien added it like this without any further explaination.

Ah....the voice of truth settles it. :-) he's a toy.

@@bookmouse2719 He's Woody's ancestor ;)

That makes sense for how nonsensical the character is, even for a fantasy novel.

That's hot

While the idea that he’s the song kinda already covers this, this is the gist I got. Tom is Arda, hence why it would take the entire world asking him to take the ring, and the worry that if Sauron conquered the world he would have power over Tom Bombadil.

I iy 786 minutes 66feet 66th and 66AM 66 and

I always thought Tom Bombadil was Eru Illuvatar

Love it !

You need to remember that that letter was written discussing the aspects of a possible sequel to The Hobbit, before Bombadil was included in the mythos Tolkien was crafting. We also see that Tolkien used the words "the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside". You cannot take those words out of the equation. This is Tolkien talking about what Bombadil _represents,_ not is in the lore of Arda. Don't put too much weight to those particular words when discussing Bombadil's origin.

@@MasterBombadillo I know about the time period when the letter was written. That doesn't change the fact that, to Tolkien, Tom was a spirit. He was a spirit outside the Mythos of Arda, and so he would continue to be inside of it. At least there's no evidence pointing Tolkien would change his classification. What Tom represents is what he is. As he was a spirit of a vanishing area of the real world, he is a spirit of a vanishing area of the secondary world (after all, the Old Forest was a vanishing spot, one of the last parts of ancient woods in Arda, destroyed by the hands of Men and Enemy). Not Eru, for there was no embodiment of Him; Not Tolkien, for he himself said he was not part of Middle-earth; Not Vala, for ALL were named; A lesser Maia perhaps, but no evidence of that; A spirit (either a manifestation of the Music or a lesser Ainu), why not?

@@leonardofaber5823 That doesn't add up actually. You can't take an explanation talking outside the whole mythology and give that the kind of authority you give it right now. You can consider it, certainly, but it's not a certainty Tolkien ever thought about Bombadil in that term. A "lesser" Ainu that comes to Middle-Earth would still be a Maia. After all, Maiar are all of the Ainur who came to Middle-Earth that aren't Valar.

@@MasterBombadillo no. Ainur=Valar+Maiar+Unnamed Spirits

@@leonardofaber5823 Could you provide a quote where Tolkien specifies that there are other spirits than Maiar and Valar amongst the Ainur?

No, Brian Blessed!

RIP 🙏

That would be amazing

I always picture Patrick Rothfuss. I doubt he can act, but the look hit me when I read the books.

🤣👏

The ring: "I can help you achieve what you desire." Tom: "I wanna scare these hobbits!"

@@nickcampbell5626 The Ring: "OK... But maybe we should think bigg-" Tom: "Nope."

This is why I felt the argument against Tom being an Ainur was a bit weak. The ring simply doesn't effect Tom because it has no desires or needs to work upon. Gandalf and Sarumon both came to Middle Earth with definite goals, and so could be tempted towards corruption. Tom, not so.

having no desire such as described in this thread is not something a mortal, or something mortal adjacent can achieve. PS - not able to screw with the mind of is one thing, not making you invisible and you being able to see others who are is another thing.

@@xBINARYGODx The ring didn't always turn people invisible or cutting Sauron's finger might have been harder than it was. Gandalf himself says that the ring offered powers in proportion to the one who wielded it. I would guess neither he or Galadriel would turn invisible for instance.

that really sounds beautiful

You make me want to go on a pilgrimage.

Being a romantic the first time I heard this I did have a lump in my throat. When lockdown is over if you come up to the Midlands I will take you to what I believe is the inspiration for Brandywine Bridge. And possibly the Old Forest as it’s right by Cannock Chase and Tolkien lived there for a while!

Wow.

As you obviously know, the graves are not in Birmingham, they are in the Wolvercote cemetery just North of the ring road around Oxford. I just didn't want other readers to go to Birmingham to look for his grave as your comment gave the impression that the graves were in Birmingham.

Oh, what an amazing thought. He would've fit so well.

I would've called that ironic, given how RW was really feeling much of the time

Now I'm even more sad he was cut out, that's such a perfect idea! I would have loved an entire movie made like that!

@@micahphilson Let's make three movies out of that! ;)

@@micahphilson cut out of both the movie and life

I think there are some things for which there will never be an explanation. Too many people think that because some things in Tolkien's mythos are so detailed in their explanation, that necessarily means _everything_ has a detailed explanation, and that's just not true. This was one man's creation, and one man can only come up with so much, especially when the majority of it came out of inspiration and not deliberate invention.

She's Tom's Huckleberry...

She’s the Rivers daughter.

Wasn't she like a maia of the rivers?

Personification of the Withywindle.

I think she might be a Maia related to nature.

You are a sweetheart.

How beautifully put.

Nicely put.

Not far off from what Tolkien said; he described Tom Bombadil as a personification of the English countryside. But Tolkien also said that strictly isn’t who Tom is, it’s just how he came up with the inspiration.

Ching sai buk lau ahhhh

It really is one of the most profound lines in the books

Tom is the most profound and mysterious section of the book, and he's right next door to the Shire. AND when Gandalf comes back to the Shire with the boys, but won't help them clean their house, he goes off to a LONG discussion with Tom. Why would an angelic being need to go off for a long visit with a singing simpleton? Maybe there is much more to Tom than meets the eye? Everything about Tom is my favorite part of the book, including Frodo's anticipatory dream of the Undying Land (Paradise).

That sounds like an awesome idea for a movie.

It would be a musical then :)

@@ThorRuneHansen Lmao. Touché

Works for me

@fred McMurray At least until Melkor came and ruined everything with his own version of singing.

same! as much as i love that audio book to death, when I first listened to the song, it started to get on my nerves haha

Makes sense that the secret fire was put in the middle of the earth to give balance go it

DOesn't it mean the core of earth? Althought i agree that Tom is most likely somehow connected to Ainur music.

@@kubaparcinski5942 "Therefore Ilúvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the Secret Fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Eä." It was supposed to be "at" not "in" my apologies.

Sounds sensible to me

This is exactly what I think as well. A great writer leaves some things open for the reader to insert themselves into. Each reader is different, and trying to control every single aspect of your story means that there's nowhere for the reader to fit themselves.

..Here is where Tolkien's Catholic piety and Biblical influence cannot be dismissed...Tom B. is the anthropological manifestation of God... like unto, Daniel's "Ancient of Days" (see Daniel 7:9)...Tom, much like the original LORD God, of Genesis , is not transcendent from nature, but rather delights in its goodness. We are told, the Almighty even enjoyed the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day (see Genesis 2:8); ...and yes the true nature of God, always remains an enigmatic mystery...and Tolkien's, Tom B., captures that wonder perfectly... After all Bombadil remains the only being on Middle Earth apparently powerful enough that the "evil" Ring of power...is really only a golden ring...that is because all of creation is ultimately subject to Him...even tyrannical plotting of Evil, itself...and this Tom B. merely chuckles at (see Psalm 2:1-4)... ...Don't you know His name yet?.. (see Exodus 3:13-14 & John 14:8-10)...

@@IAmBael That would also fit with how Tolkien approaches questions in his Letters. He doesn’t present himself as _the_ authority on Arda, just someone who’s spent a lot of time thinking about it.

And that is wisdom plenty of modern fantasy writers have completely forgotten. They're in such a hurry to explain and flesh out their hard magic system, creature biology and background lore that they forget the importance of mystery in a story. Fully explaining how everything works makes the world feel small, regardless of its size. You always wanna leave something just beyond the horizon so that no matter how much your story expands the reader always has the impression that there's more because what they imagine to that space will always be more amazing and epic than what you can possible create.

I have thought of that as well. He was already old when he was born. And he fell in love with a maiden, Aino, who turned into a water spirit. The difference is that this lovestory is a unhappy one.

Dadgum i love this theory

I figured he's supposed to be some kind of earth or nature spirit, possibly an embodiment of the land of Arda itself. The fact that he's lived for as long as he did might symbolize the vitality of the land. It might not be a familiar concept within Judeo-Christian culture, but nature spirits are quite common in other cultures. Even English folklore has prominent examples, ie. the lady of the lake in Arthurian legend.

Yes, Tom is the spirit of the Woods.

@@vrijbuiterspartei2715 Yet Tom has existed before the forests or woods.

@@johnlucas2838 because the spirit was there first.

Yes, that would explain how Tom Bombadil can be more powerful than Iluvatar. He is the personification of the true God of the story, the author himself.

@@greywolf7577 Tolkien dismissed this theory. He apparently said his presence in the story can be seen in the character of Faramir.

That theory isn't mutually exclusive with any of the other theories. Yes, he's almost certainly a self-insert, but that doesn't explain his origin within the books' universe. He still needs a backstory.

@@UsernameRulesSuck1 We know he is either Eru himself, a direct creation of Eru, or some entity created by the music. He needs a legit in universe backstory. I don't see him as Eru for a number of reasons. I don't really see him as an opposite to ungoliant. I think he was either created directly by Eru to care for the earth sort of like how God created Adam. The first being. If not then he is a creation from arda itself in some way sort of like an avatar. Your thoughts?

@@jlock9085 We know he is definitely not Eru himself because Tolkein explicitly said that Eru has no physical presence in Ea.

And Quenya is based on Finnish. The man knew his languages!

I ought to study Finnish mythology more closely now.

Tolkien must have had a deep knowledge of Finnish mythology seeing as he greatly admired the Kalevala, so this theory makes alot of sense

I think I read somewhere (possibly in Shippey) that Finnish was his favourite language.

100%. It's pretty well-known Tolkien loved the Kalevala. They're incredibly alike.

Yes I like that , Father time, the soul of nature itself ,the spark behind the seasons , keeping it all in motion with his songs , from the path of the creek the melting of snow to the snowdrop emerging and the creature pollinating it.

I really like that theory. I always thought of him as being more like the Ents and Eagles than the Ainur - created to keep watch over the earth, but not actively getting involved with the people who live there. It would also explain why he is fatherless, since he is father. I also see Goldberry as a mother nature character, so then mother nature and father time would be a couple 😊. Perhaps they were part of Eru's original creation of Arda, before the Valar went there and started their creations.

Hi Fellow Tolkien Fans; It takes research to figure out Tolkien’s greatest mystery, so here goes. Yes, Tom Bombadil is the most powerful thing in Arda, and here's the proof, with theory de-bunkings along the way. The council of Elrond, and their opinions of him, are not Tolkien canon. They are simple the author imparting the ignorance of elves who are a fraction of his age and power. They don't even know what happened when TB put on the Ring, as the hobbits never told them and they were never asked. Including Gandalf. If they had known the Ring did not make TB invisible, that TB had no temptation from it, that he could make it invisible instead, that he knew it was evil when he told Frodo not to wear it anymore, and that he could see Frodo when he was wearing the Ring, among other things covered below, they would have been better informed. The rest of the canon lore is from the Silmarillion where Tolkien writes clearly that Tom is "oldest and fatherless". A fact that he, Gandalf and Goldberry confirm (both Maia). But there's more. He was there before the rivers and the trees, even the acorns. Older than ents. He was there before the dark lord Melkor came from the outside. In fact, it is stated that Melkor was the first of the Valar in Arda, before Manwe and Yavanna. This means TB is the original spirit of Arda, he was first and ensouled into Arda by Eru (but as Tolkien writes "Eru himself is not embodied in Arda..."). Why do we know this? Because everything made by Eru was ensouled with a spirit. Arda was made by Eru before he revealed its creation to the Valar, yet TB was already there before the Valar arrived and fashioned the rest of Arda with "their gifts". Therefore, since he was already there, at the very creation of Arda which "pushed back the Void" to make room for its existence, TB is the very spirit of Eru's creation. This makes TB the counter arch-spirit to Ungoliant. And how do we know this? Because Tolkien writes Ungoliant is the spirit-demon of the Void who came to Arda in the carnal form of a great demon spider. She both hated and loved Arda and the light and wanted to consume them. Tom is the antithesis of Ungoliant, as he is the opposite of hunger, devouring, power mongering and nothingness. Tolkien also writes TB would have nothing left (to love and do) if Sauron was to win...but not that TB would be defeated. Just that he would be "last as he was first", as Gandalf and Tolkien both admit. This means TB is immune to destruction and evil. He cannot be vanquished. Also, if he is last, then everything else including Sauron, perishes. Even if Sauron attains a political/military victory for a time. But Tom remains- as he remained during Morgoth's dominion in previous ages. It follows then, that Tom is and was, whether even Morgoth knew of him or not. If Morgoth knew of him, he either couldn't destroy him, or he didn't know of him. But the Silmarillion says the Valar- like Morgoth, could see all things and were aware of all powers. So, if Morgoth couldn't see him, Tom is more powerful. Or, he could see him and didn't want to mess with him, and/or couldn't-wouldn't-shouldn't). The conclusion here is obvious. Morgoth is not as powerful as Ungoliant (he needed balrogs to save him from his bindings and being devoured by her). At that time she was growing in power and he was diminishing. Tom Bombadil is therefore more powerful that both of them because he is of Eru and his existence is the creation-power (as Arda incarnate) that could not be defeated or stopped by either Morgoth in Arda, or by the Void (Ungoliant). For those of you still wondering how this fits into Tolkien legendarium as a deliberately inserted enigmatic mystery, take a seat and a deep breath. Tolkien was a Catholic and a philosophical Christian in many aspects of his life and works. Tom Bombadil is a mystery to be discovered, in a way, like Jesus is to be discovered. But here it's within Tolkien's mythology. The Romans and most people of Jesus' time also viewed Jesus as silly and non-powerful. Just a hippie singing a silly song most didn't understand and didn't want to understand. Only those seeking the truth that's hidden behind the barriers of physical things/appearances- will ever find it. Brilliant. Eru ensouled a human form (who could take any form) to be the holy spirit of life in Arda. The imperishable light, discussed in the Silmarillion and the spirit of the valiant who oppose evil- like Frodo and Sam (and others). Melkor couldn't find the flame imperishable in the Void. No wonder. Melkor was searching for something he couldn't understand- in the bowels of the Void, aka the demon-spirit Ungoliant. (Moru in Tolkien's early writings). Not a place to find it. Tolkien wrote in his letters to the editors that leaving Tom in the LOTR was deliberate because "leaving him out would feel like something important to the whole story was missing." What a subtle and amazing clue. Tom Bombadil, Iarwain Ben-Adar to the elves, Orald to Rohan, Forn to the Dwarves, "oldest and fatherless" to all others, is only one of two entities ever described by Tolkien as "he is". The other is Eru. Tom Bombadil, despite Tolkien's ruse of Tom's appearance (deliberate), and his silly manner of singing his version of the Ainulindale (also deliberate), is and was the most powerful entity in Arda at any time in its history, and the answer to greatest Tolkien riddle. All hail to Tolkien the master author and creator of the fantasy genre. A star shines on the hour of our meeting, The Lore Master Lore-Master.com

Wow amazing break down! Gives me goosebumps!

I have always referred to Tom as Father Time. I have a brother-in-law who is not a reader but loved the movies. I have told him hundreds of hours of additional content and when it comes to this, in particular, this has always been my view. I always thought of Goldberry as Mother Nature, the partner to Father Time.

The music of the Ainur created Ea itself, of which Arda (and Middle Earth) is but a small part. Bombadil as the incarnation of the music should have mastery over creation second only to Eru himself - he shouldn’t be threatened by a Maia like Sauron if that was the case

I thought this the most likely theory. But I like that somebody said it’s Tolkien himself.

I agree that's this theory holds most ground with ungoliant being the discord definitely my favourite theory

I have always thought of Tom Bombabil as an embodiment of the natural world, the earth, of creation, or "the music of the Ainur". In the world but not of it. A sort of male "Mother Nature".

This was my opinion as well, after the video. Tom is "Father Arda" (derivation of mother earth), the physical incarnation of the spirit of the planet itself.

That's a great idea, that first one about him coming from discord. A tone so discordant that it sort of overflows and becomes harmonious again.

Personally I think the second is an ugly idea. It's just very typical and egotistical to insert oneself as some ageless god-like entity into your work.

I think I read somewhere that Tolkien made Faramir as his (sort of) self-insert, by giving Faramir similar traits he shared in real life.

Maybe it’s just that Tom bombadil was created before the lord of the rings so was able to view it through Tolkien as he is tolkiens or one of tolkiens first characters.

But Tulkas was the strongest, the most ready to fight evil, the one who hated Melkor the most. That doesn’t seem to fit Tom Bombadil.

@PurpleOwlAnimation Nature is only the nature of, whatever exists at a given time is "nature"

Yea my dad always tought that

Yes, this seems the most likely the answer.

@PurpleOwlAnimation that wouldn't stop him being the spirit of nature. It would depend on whether he emerges from nature when it comes to be, or whether he transcends actually existing nature.

I'd have to say he likely isnt the personification of nature, as there are others such as Carnan who very little is known about and is also immensely old and, as Celebrimbor suggested, will be around long after any other being. I believe Tom Bombadil is more of a being that was created in the dismay of the music of the Ainur, while Melkor's influence caused evil entities to spawn, it may have also caused manifestations of ones in the middle. Tom is a good being, but he isnt 'good' as in on the side of light. Tom keeps to himself besides something here and there, meaning he isnt like any other beings made to be good. Because of this I believe he is either from beyond the Music, as he is dubbed "The Fatherless" which could mean he is not from Eru's influence. Or that he is "Fatherless" in the sense that his true origin is unknown to all and that he was spawned from the disruption of the music.

that's an interesting point, and you could be right? I must go to the hills and ponder this with a fine batch of shire weed...hmmm

Lol

🤣🤣🤣

And probably the most simple explanation is the correct, since we can't correlate him with anything or anyone.

I would totally love a movie that is focused on Tom Bombadil

Excellent meta-sleuthery 👌

@Chris S. I am not sure if it was on purpose that you mentioned it. Mickey Mouse did meet Bugs Bunny once, and only once! (it was in 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit').

He broke a wall of sorts by including Tom, also you should copy/past this as it's own thing because you put a lot of work into your comment (/bow)

Or primeval chaos.

And that's the reason he thinks ents is the most interesting part of Gandalf telling Tom the story about the destruction of the ring post-lotr. Ents = living trees moving around, which is fundamental to how nature and existence works. He'd find that interesting. That's what I've always thought of him.

@@oskarmikaszewicz7248 that would be Ungoliant.

@@Dunified that's interesting

Tom is the embodiment of the soul of Middle Earth, of the Anima Mundi of the alchemists, of the Holy spirit of christianity. Tom is not bound by time. He is always in the NOW. He does not think. The past and the future do not exist within him. He just IS, always. He represents the connection with the ALL that one acheives through enlightenment. A state of pure bliss. He incarnates a state of being that was before the Fall, when Adam and Eve just took care of the Garden, before they ate the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and became aware that they were naked. Before suffering existed. He is life itself, seperated from death. He is Master of ''tree, hill and water''... ie He is master of the elements of Water and Earth, not of Air and fire. This paragraph should be of particular interest also, when at the end of ROTK Gandalf says: "I am going to have a long talk with Bombadil: such a talk as I have not had in all my time. He is a moss-gatherer, and I have been a stone doomed to rolling. But my rolling days are ending, and now we shall have much to say to one another."