From my experience, every idle game ends when you ask yourself, "why the fuck am I doing this?"

Cookie clicker gets updated more often then tf2

UKposts recommendations doing a good job today. I remember showing Cookie Clicker to my boss back in 2015, he didn't get any work done for days after that.

"If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing." -Orteil, Developer of Cookie Clicker

When I heard that guy say the satisfying part of cookie clicker was optimisation I immediately remembered why I loved the game. It's not about increasing the number, its about accelerating. The same thing is what drives most businessmen, because 100 million cookies may seem inconsequential if you have 10 billion, but if you truly understand the game, that can put you 100x further than you wouldve been otherwise in a months time.

My save is so old that it simply says I started "A long while ago" rather than giving a specific amount of days; I believe it was sometime in September of 2013, maybe slightly earlier. I check in on the game from time to time at this point, and if theres a new building or achievement, I'll grind it out for a bit until I get them, or reach a point where it becomes quite slow to progress again. Either way, definitely put in my fair share of time into this, and I suspect I'll be finding myself returning to it until the game no longer is up.

Cookie Clicker reminds me of when I was in school and I would take out my calculator and type something like 99 + 99 and then mash the = button and watch as the number goes up and up and up by 99 by every press of the = button.

The reason I particularly like Idle games is that it makes me feel like I'm not wasting time. It makes me feel "productive", I'm working AND playing a game. I love games, when I spend time away from playing games, it makes me feel something similar to FOMO, having an idle game run in the background reduces that feeling and helps me actually work better.

The video is great and also your production value is always mind-blowing to me. Great work!

Just want to shout my appreciation for clean, uncluttered thumbnail pictures. Great stuff !

and the first thing you do each time is to name your bakery "Orteil" to get that sweet shadow achievement.

There is actually something a little sinister about the game's underlying mechanics. The fact that we get pleasure out of "anticipation" of reward is absolutely true and some people have exploited it for other purposes, such as implementing it in slot machines in Les Vegas and making people develop gambling addictions, which result in financial ruins and destroy lives.

I remember back in the day leaving it on with autoclicker while going to school, then coming back and making big bucks.

I love the subtle comedy in the script to all Chris' videos. HIs desktop background has me in tears

"I'm impressed with the dedication of people who have stuck with Cookie Clicker for years" is like saying you're impressed with people who's stayed dedicated to cocaine or heroin for years. The numbers go up and you feel like you accomplished something which triggers the brains reward system which is addictive. Now I need to call my sponsor. Because like some sober alcoholics that keep a bottle hidden just in case I still have my Google Spreadsheets for calculating the best investments of cookies. My name is Anders and it has been 2 years since I last clicked a cookie. Take the advice of someone who has walked this road before. Don't click that cookie. Not even once.

Everyone playing console games: YOU CAN'T JUST PLAY COOKIE CLICKERS, THEY'RE NOT REAL GAMES!!! Everyone playing cookie clickers: *Haha, granny go brrrrrr.*

I started playing this game when it came out and I had a save going up until 2018 when I lost my save switching computers. I mourn that savegame to this day, I was at like septillions of cookies per second.

Ok. You can't really cream butter by hand. Creaming is the act of adding air to butter which makes your cookies lighter and fluffier. I prefer chewier cookies so I actually melt my butter first and then mix everything with a fork. Also, try to weigh everything instead of using measuring cups. Especially the flour and brown sugar because they compact a lot. If you can't do that, spoon the flour out with a separate utensil into the measuring cup and then level it (scooping directly compacts it too much) and for the brown sugar, recipes usually want it as compact as possible. Salted vs unsalted butter can be pretty important, too. Just make sure if using salted butter you use less salt. Finally, a personal tip: measure your vanilla extract over the bowl and let your pours overflow a bit. I almost always add close to an extra teaspoon of vanilla extract to every thing I bake even though I deliberately bake recipes that tend to be heavy on vanilla. I look up multiple recipes, pick in part based on vanilla amount, and then add more. Vanilla extract is like garlic: you can never have too much I could probably say a lot more but I'll stop there. I've been figuring out my chocolate chip cookie recipe for the past 10 years. So, yes, I can do better :P Edit: everything should be room temperature when you're mixing it! Forgot about that for a second

When that professor lady talked about “playing to plan” and “planning your schedule to maximize your experience” or whatever, I immediately thought of clash of clans. I get joy just thinking about when my upgrades will be done and making sure I have enough coin to start the next upgrade right away to maximize efficiency. Funny how that idle type of game is such a banger with society.

I like how this went from cookie clicker to existential crisis.

Whenever anyone asks me why I play idle games so much on my phone, my go-to answer is “an artificial sense of accomplishment” Love what you guys are doing at PMG, please keep it up!!

I just opened cookie clicker for the hell of it, and what I saw was about 2 quattourdecillion cookies I had forgotten this, damn I have apparently also played it for 988 days, nearly 1000! I have now ascended, and everything is so much faster! I'm already at a septillion, I haven't even bought any upgrades! I have now reached 100 javascript consoles without any upgrades I have now changed my courser so it looks like a cookie!

Something that makes Cookie Clicker stand out above other idle games is you can tell it wasn't made to earn money. So many idle games are time sinks because they want you to put in real money and skip the boring parts, but in a game all about the "boring" part that design becomes predatory

I've been playing the game since about 2013-ish. When I started Uni, I restarted my run and I'm currently 1,697 days into it. I love the game, its just something nice switch tabs to and buy some upgrades, weed the garden and pop my wrigglers. I'm not min maxing the game like a lot of people do I just play it at my own pace and enjoy the events each year.

I played this for months back in 2014-2015 but recently rediscovered it. IMO it actually encourages much more of an active playstyle nowadays, what with gardens, pantheons, grimoires, lining up click frenzy megacombos... there always was an element of optimization strategies to this game, but it's so much more interesting now. I hear there are new mechanics in the works as well, such as dungeons and stock markets. Incredible. I hope Orteil is seeing reasonable monetization out of his creation here (e.g. through ads, Patreon, etc.). Oh, and I agree with the suggested conclusion of this video. I think in the end it's the sense of achievement/progress that drives players. Yes there is the element of anticipation as mentioned by the academic you interviewed (sorry forgot her name), and this is evident in the effort that players put in poring over the sourcecode, developing spreadsheets and tools, discussing strategies, but ultimately the main driver of this is the sense of achievement. OK, time to end this comment, I just heard the Golden Cookie chime...

Ah, Haven't heard of this game in a long time... The Nostalgia can hit someone hard

i remember playing this in school back in primary... i had a home save that had some sextillion cookies at one point, but recently i have got back into it and realised there is a massive community of people who help to try and make things as optimised as possible and i love that... This is an amazing video...

I'm one of those who have played, taken breaks, played, over and over for the past 6 years. This video has now had me go back hahaha

Even though I only contributed two quotes, I'm very happy to have helped make this! Excellent video, hope it gets the recognition it deserves

I really enjoy what you guys do. Your videos focus on unique and interesting stories that I would never hear about otherwise and your editing and design work is always fantastic. You can always tell how much time, effort and care goes into all you do. Keep it up!

This sounds kinda mean, but I'd be interested in the careers (and their opinions of their careers) of people who have played this game for 7 years. Part of me wants to think that they must not have accomplished what they wanted to, so they play this game for the constant feeling of accomplishment or progress. I'm not sure if that theory holds any water, as all humans are susceptible to skinner boxes (to varying degrees); it very well may have nothing to do with the player's _actual_ life (and tbh I feel like I'm kinda falling into the [VERY outdated] "if you play video games you must be a loser" trope)

BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY UNBLOCKED GAME AT SCHOOL

It reminds me of RPGs that rely heavily on strategy. Sometimes, you spend more time out of the game planning your party strategy than you spend in the game executing it. Like solving a puzzle it's satisfying to see it all come together.

The thing that kept me hooked was the maths part of it. E.G. Is it more profitable to invest in grandmas or factories taking into account their current price?

4:06 Sounds familiar...turning an apocalypse into profit....

Im so glad this video exists. I have been playing this game since 2016 and i struggle to believe that a game this simple is so addictive and so captivating, its... amazing to me. I truly love this game and, even though its not the game i played for the longest time, i would say this is my favorite game ever. Thanks, Orteil.

I feel like that sort of journey is why people (including me) will replay old games that they loved or rewatch an entire TV or movie series. It's part that it's comforting, part that you get to see familiar progress flow through these expected channels.

This was a super interesting video! I've been playing Cookie Clicker during lockdown and I can definitely relate to that abstract feeling like you're achieving something, even if it's just making a number grow larger. Great video!

I definitely understand the appeal of incremental games like this. I've beaten adventure capitalist, antimatter dimensions (at least until the reality update comes out), and I'm currently playing trimps. Cookie clicker itself never really stuck with me, as its gameplay is much to simple until you get far enough for it to be enjoyable for me, so at most I play it for a couple days until I forget about it.

i've been playing this game for ages, i started playing around 2013 or 2014, when i was six or seven i guess (i'm 13 now). i come back ever year or so and start from scratch, and there's always some new feature that's so fun to figure out. something about cookie clicker is just so amazing to me, it's so fun to reach the next milestone and get the next achievement and save up for the next building or upgrade, seeing my cps steadily rise and my game slowly progressing is so rewarding.

Thank you for covering this game! Played it A LOT, for years, but stopped as I got busier IRL (and hit a ceiling where there wasn't more satisfying progress to make)

Hasn’t played it for like, 3-4 years since I was introduced. During quarantine I was looking through old games like ‘Fire boy and Water girl’ or ‘Papas pizzeria’ when I remembered the game. I’m glad people are still playing.

that closing quote is totally right - it is all about the satisfaction of progress. I'm like that with all my games, just an endless cycle of progress and optimization, constantly creating new goalposts to reach. There's also the sensation of getting sharp with the game's systems, like learning the ins and outs of the combat system until it's second nature. it's about finding your own playstyle. it's about the feeling of acquiring skills. for me, that's what games are all about

Universal paperclips is the absolute pinnacle of the genre, and I recommend everyone to play it.

"Yahtzee's Dev Diary Episode 13: The Button that Ruins Everything"

I'm one of those people who made mods for the game. They are called "Darky's Achievement Package" and "Darky's Armful Collection of Upgrades" (and both mixed together is "Darky's Achievements and Upgrades Batch") and basically, as those titles already tell you, are mods that add new achievements and upgrades to the game. Anyway, I've known about and played Cookie Clicker about 1-2 weeks after it first released (the Updated one, not the Experimental one) and have been playing it in the background since then, though I have not been doing that for a while because i basically am way in the endgame now with almost everything unlocked so for me personally there isn't a point in having it run until the next update which is also almost around the corner. I still enjoy it.

I come back into cookie clicker ever 1-2 years and play it for who knows how long I started in 2013 It's just Pure fun Nothing holding you back It's great

Idle games are great. Never played cookie clicker but really loved candy box. Candy box II and universal paper clips. They are fun to have on in the background. If you shortened the time it takes to play them you (at least with universal paper clips) you’d still have a nice game.

The animation this episode is off the chain! Beautifully done and so imaginative!

“Hatch a dragon” Why didn’t you tell me earlier?!?!

Awesome video Man! It's nice to see people like you who understand why we enjoy idle games, one other thing I like about these games (especially on mobile) is that they don't take up lots of your time, you can play for as long or as little as you like and you can still enjoy your life with friends and family without ignoring them or being too distracted and at the same time you're still levelling up and progressing in your game, and when you have time you can come back, do a few tasks and put it down. These games become a part of people's lives so much because they're in real time.

I've been searching for answers for different (but similar) questions about the satisfaction of video games, and I think this video answers them. I've dedicated years of my life to Steam achievement hunting (a less popular platform for the hobby; you see much more vibrant communities around PlayStation trophy hunting and Xbox achievement hunting) and I think the psychology is identical. I often look forward to the prospect of gaining new achievements or finishing new games to 100%, always finding pleasure in the planning and tracking process itself (a pleasure which has driven me to the career path of accounting), and find it to be "productive;" you put this into words! This channel is fantastic at creating thoughtful content.

That planning aspect hit me hard, I play most games like I play idle, how am I going to organize my next run of a game.

I remember playing this back in 2013, when it had its old user interface now called the legacy version. Very fun back then, was constantly waiting to get to the next tier of auto clicker, and then make 10 of them, and move on again. I think I was weary of the initial UI update that made it look like it does now, but eventually enjoyed it seen as it came with more content. Haven't played since then in 5 years, glad its still going :) was a very novel concept back in 2013. I think the think that initially attracted me was every upgrade you made you would get a sprite on screen representing it, maybe with an animation. This distinguished it from other similar games that existed at the time... I assume that feature was thanks to HTML5 (new back then itself), seen as flash could have never supported so many moving sprites so seamlessly. very cool. Actually built with javascript, I guess HTML5 was too in its infancy in 2013

So I'm like, one of those players. When I first started playing getting to a quadrillion was one hell of an accomplishment and God idk how many years ago that was. Eventually I'll get a new computer or something else will happen that will cause me to lose my progress and I'll stop for a few months, maybe a year, but then I'll pick it back up. I gravitate towards idle games because they're like a little dopamine rush in between working on other projects or writing that I don't really have to think about. My favourite right now is Antimatter Dimensions but Cookie Clicker was what got me into it. What I love about CC in particular is just the abstract horror-comedy vibe it gives off. It's so absurd and I love it. Between the Grandmapocalypse, the achievement names, and how the news ticker can both berate and confuse you... it all adds up into a weirdly charming little package.

cookie clicker is so good because it's not just any idle game, you keep playing for that rush when you finally can afford an expensive upgrade or finally set up a good combo, and the achievements are even better, when I get enough cps or bake enough cookies and that achievement pops up all I'm thinking is 'that is really cool and I can't wait for the next one'

Maybe the real cookies were the friends they clicked with along the way? Fun video. Left me with a cosy feeling and the urge to replay Forager!

Chris smouldering away in the background is very distracting.

The dog watching you through the window has an expression that seems to say: You're out for a walk? Without me?

im currently playing tap titans 2. all of this is absolutely true. planning on what i do after prestige (the game reset) how i plan out my clan raid attacks, what equipment i choose, being excited at getting better equipment, tinkering with my skill points, all that good stuff. and it's a long run. these are games designed to be played for years

Inaccurate the most efficient way to play is to ignore the cursors at first and go straight for your first grandmas

I've seen a similar response but sometimes when I am doing something (watching yt, reading playing other games) I feel like I am wasting a certain amount of my brainpower, and having one of the multitude of idle games (I prefer factory games recently which are less like idle games...) it helps stave off that feeling.

As a cookie clicker fan myself, this video was very awe inspiring. Especially that beautiful background gameplay, with them noT GETTING THE 1% CPS CURSOR UPGRADES SO THAT WHEN THEY GOT A CLICK FRENZY AT LIKE 9 MINUTES THEY ONLY HAD 55 BIL PER CLICK, MEANWHILE THEIR CPS WAS ABOUT 500 QUAD AND YOU COULD SEE THE UNPURCHASED UPGRADES- anyways great video yall

Thanks for the video! I adore cookie clicker. It feels like popular discussion around idle games like cookie clicker overlook an aspect about idle games that captivates me. Few experiences in games and even in life give us an opportunity to comprehend large numbers. One can see an illustration or read a metaphor of ones turning into thousands, thousands to millions, and so forth, but it's difficult to actually feel the weight of or viscerally comprehend that disparity between human-scale quantities and the truly large. Idle games like cookie clicker provide active context for operating at the scale of ones onward through baffling orders of magnitude. Players can actually feel how small and insignificant their past efforts later become when operating on a grander scale. For example, at an early point in cookie clicker, the idea of even trying to click the cookie anymore seems absurdly meaningless. At a glance, idle games demonstrate some basic properties of large numbers. But I think this can positively effect our perception of the universe we live in. In a subtle way, it teaches us about our place on the pale blue dot in the vastness of space. It gives weight to our childhood lessons about how many planets fit in a sun, how many lakes fit in an ocean, or how long ago dinosaurs walked the earth. It informs our actions as citizens regarding the scope and consequence of things like separation of wealth, spending at a government level, poverty, over-population, and climate change. I may be embellishing the cognitive impact of something like cookie clicker, but in a small way it and other idle games offer something more than just the satisfaction of faux progress.

Cookie Clicker with all of it's rather complicated strategy elements is a way to gamble without spending or losing money. You don't pay for perks, you do all of it through simply playing the game. Not many idle games can say the same. Of course there is merchandise for the game, but it's just that, merchandise.

Cookies Per Second is a unit I never knew I needed

this reminds me of the Halfbrick Studios' Tank Tactics game and the video you made about it. it was a long form turn based game, but people were constantly thinking about it, plotting and scheming about how to maximise efficiency, the only difference being action points vs cookies XD

Neat video chris. I wonder if skinner box stuff is related at all. I didnt know it was still being developed and played. I like ur shirt in this.

That smug vacation scene was spot on. You get a like.

Tap the cookie: Gets 1 cookie Tap the cookie 15 times: Gets 15 cookies Me: That’s math and I don’t like it

I also played for almost 5 years and yeah I think the progress is a big part of it. The feeling that you’re always moving forward, even when you’re not playing it, that you always have a goal - that’s huge. I think if they stopped updating and adding new goals for people to work towards, player ship would eventually fall off. But if you keep giving people a basic, satisfying little puzzle with a reward they have to wait for, they’ll keep coming back.

This makes sense. I've been trying out Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 and I've found that I really like walking away from the PC with the plane in the air and autopilot OFF, wondering how the plane's doing unmanned, and coming back to the PC and finding the plane just cruising along.

Can we appreciate this comment section not being infested with Me: Them: Me: Memes.

A valuable thing I think cookie clicker provides is a constant reward to not playing it. If I work on something and I know I can gonback to the game after work it makes it feel easier to work because I have something to work towards. I feel like the same thing is true with something like Animal Crossing. Every day you‘re rewarded for just living your life. And although it isn‘t playable at the same rate as a normal game with a story, it still does create fun for people wich is great! Just like with that vacation allegory, I think that having things every year to look forward to is so important. It makes you feel like there‘s always something new. There‘s always fun ahead. And as someone who also struggles a lot with depression this can really be a good way to handle times where I‘m feeling worse.

I finally got the steam release, now have over 1200 hours on my "forever" run. It's the high of getting the next upgrade, the next expensive building, the next suger lump, the pleasure of seeing an upgrade that would have taken 3000 days drop to 500 days after ascending. I might one day just get a tiny compute machine to run just this number generator for years on end, because I can plan around keeping it powered on and seeing that as a personal achievement outside of the game. Or maybe its the one thing in my life that gives me near instant gratification for the first 30 days and then teases me with more, helping me be patient instead of cheating my way to success.

That background on your far/left screen... epic!

One interesting thing is that never ever has cookie clicker been surpassed by another game. Idle games, the simplest genre out there, is almost completely comprised of games of significantly less value than the original. What cookie clicker does SO well is the strategy and depth that comes with the end game. Making an idle game is easy. Just make an imaginary resource go up, first slowly, then exponentially as more upgrades are introduced. This cycle could be endless, and it often is. But cookie clicker have farming minigames with tons of variety, magic spells, each with a unique effect, the list goes on. There is a strategy to cookie clicker, one that hasn't been seen anywhere else. And the funny thing is.. Cookie Clicker, when you really think about it, is a satirical caricature of capitalism. It aims to create the feeling of wanting more despite the consequences, dooming the world to a hellscape of chocolate and cookie dough, all for the sake of an imaginary number to go up. This is very evident by the headlines in the news section. You are ACTIVELY harming the world around you in the search for exponential growth with no end in sight. Cookie Clicker, a game that actively satirizes capitalism, is the most well executed (and first) idle game.

It’s not about the cookies, it’s about the friends we made along the way

I remember the first idle game I ever heard of back in college in the early 2000’s; Progress Quest. You just installed a little program that as long as it was running just filled in progress bars with minor descriptions of what your “character” was doing, like “fighting goblins” and then upgrading your armor and weapons. It was utterly about nothing but progression.

Thank you so much for this video! I will be using this and one day I’ll create one of the most popular games!

I started playing about a month ago. I just put it in the background when I’m playing games, doing homework, and whatever when I do stuff on the computer.

I spent many a hour in class playing this game.

i think the conecpt of "progress as a reward" is extremely accurate and insightful, and i think a huge part of that is the the human need to discover; even if the "discovery" is as simple as what the next building in cookie clicker looks like

2:35 "The way I see it, it's about optimising" - lets hope this man doesn't lay a finger on Factorio.

4:55 haven't heard that word from you for a while

nice wallpaper

lol i just subbed after watching your balcony bit. great presentation and well researched!

I mostly start playing this game again whenever I have a computer at school since it can do stuff in the background. I used to click the cookie in a tiny minimized screen while I read articles at school, I guess it kept me engaged with my work instead of dozing or day dreaming

I clicked on this video because the thumbnail made me hungry.

Chris the Internets precious, baby boy.

I played cookie clicker and a lot of other idle games and it did feel satisfying at times but then not... until I found Universal Paperclips; an idle game with an end. And it cured me. I no longer played any other idle games. I still replay Universal Paperclips sometimes but it's a finite experience and I appreciate that.

Damn you prat, so many times have I left Cookie Clicker behind and now you've forced my hand - time to return to the game

I was playing it on my second monitor while watching this video.

Auto clicker: I didn't end this man career...

The fan art above your monitor seems so adorable!

Legit, just over a week ago ago a video about cookie clicker was recommended to me and I went to the game as I was watching the video, and now I'm at ~10 days in, and I get CC videos recommended to me on a near daily basis. It's such a simple yet strangely addicting game in a way

Sid from Ice Age presents an idle game on based on cookies.

Cookie clicker? I barely knew 'er!

Just out of a 2-week cookie clicker binge in the wake of the christmas break. In those 2 weeks I genuinely spent more time on cookie clicker than I did working on my PhD. First thing, it's pretty addicting to see your CPS grow, to save for that next upgrade, to click golden cookies and hope the stars align for that big combo. Something else that kept me playing was that I found myself setting goals without really thinking. I'd be setting CPS targets and playing until I broke through, or playing until I got a milk upgrade so I could leave the game running through the night while I slept. The game goes on seemingly forever, so whether you're in the billions or quattuordecillions of cookies per second, there's another upgrade just round the corner that keeps you clicking and waiting for golden cookies.

I started playing 5 years ago, every year or so I start again for a bit. I listen to audible at the same time so whenever I start playing I feel nostalgic for things like historical lectures and ambient rain mixers.