Also using water or something similar on the cutting surface to help cool and keep the silica dust down. Every time you blew on the dust I screamed quietly inside. Inhaling glass dust is incredibly bad for you. Silicosis is horrible.

@@therenaissancetinker2972 Yeah, either some putty to keep water inside the cutting area OR a spout constantly. Any time I'm grinding anything that's hard and creates micro abrasives I tend to only do either completely submerged or with a copious amount of water running over it. I was also freaking out about the blowing, vacuumed would be a step up but still not ideal.

glad i'm not the only glass guy in here that noticed that lol

@@hogandromgool2062 yeah my go to is underwater for this type of thing. I retrofitted my old dynacut saw with continuous water flow. Even they I wear a respirator when cutting. After 20 years of scientific glass and lathe work I’ve learned the hard way not to take chances with your lungs or eyes.

@@ryanschindler923 oh I was absolutely horrified. I expect better than that from Adam and this channel in general.

Damn you science with your thermophysics!

I was thinking this as he went in dry and cringing as I waited for a crack or explosion. It definitely chipped but went better than I anticipated.

Always use water, and use a grinding tool, not a cutting tool. Diamond-coated bits are really cheap. The thermal regulation of the water also helps keep the diamond grit from overheating and potentially melting out the medium it's embedded in, as well as washing away the dust created. The reason for the chipping is because, using a tool with edges, you're essentially doing micro-knapping of the glass, making tiny chips via percussion, rather than actually scraping away the material as you would with a grinding cutter, or cutting chips as you would in more flexible materials like metal.

@@themeandrousengineer I was squinting the whole time, wish I had safety glasses nearby just to enjoy watching better :)

Came here to say this, lots of coolant needed!

^ This. A huge amount of surface area was removed from the teeth of the vice so it would be good to add back some additional forces

use an aluminum welding rod, you're welcome

Yep, wrong order.

I immediately noticed that and I bet if he watched this back would realize the order issue. forest for the trees moment.

my thoughts, run the vise jaws together and machine the slots as “holes” in each set. That would make holding the jaws easy as well as mating the opposite jaws with the slots.

@@ryanlukens9280 Same problem though, very high chance of the metal warping from heat or even just the removal of material. very likely would need to be lapped again anyways.

are we sure he did? He was still lapping while machining the slots. But even then, it might not matter. He is removing a lot of (unneeded) stiffness so the final small jaws may just conform to the socket under pressure, depending on material of course.

Had a similar thought; hard surface to hard surface is inherently slippery, especially when smooth.

A large part of why this is modified shape is better is that when grabbing the object, the contact points of the vice are pushing on the edges of the rotatable part. This makes it rotate and align before grabbing. To work correctly I think the rubber would have to be on top of the fingers of those grabby lego hands he made!

You could also just glue on rubber grips, that would be, like, way simpler, lmao.

Being the cheep o i am, my first thought was for permanent sort of rubber, you could use some bed-liner, but for temp use as a soft vice, just some cuts of the right sized vacuum hose i think would be perfect.

Or a big rubber band around each side of the vice?

Used to work on aircraft, was looking for this answer.

Ya I was trying to think about it. Seems pretty easy to demonstrate. Is there a name for this process?

@@mikeg1433”whitworth 3 plate method”, that’s what I’ve seen it referred to as

Oxtoolco has a fantastic, detailed series on the making of precision lapping plates! Check it out: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/qniep4d8eK5il6M.htmlsi=PYq2R6XKHjxj1pLZ

How did the Egyptians and Aztecs flatten all those rock surfaces to mirror each other on several faces 😳🤯

It would be terribly boring. While I'm sure Adam would make it entertaining by geeking out about it, the fact is that you're just rubbing plates together over and over.

That would be a long video

ive thought about this and then naming it "POV: youre far too drunk in adams shop"

You’re not wrong.

And sync it to Mr Blue Sky by ELO.

@@absolutEVEL Or "You're falling asleep, but Adam keeps waking you up."

Maybe a third fractal vice jaw would make a good support (facing up from underneath). Maybe a custom one so it isn't as tall.

@@vodiak Over-engineering a solution. A simple piece of scrap wood will do, in most cases, you want something sacrifical just incase you blow through the work piece or make a mess with coolants.

Thanks for the confirmation. It felt like the obvious solution, but I’m always prepared for the “surprise! that’s a terrible idea, here’s why”

I'd suggest some machinist jacks. Good side project if he doesn't have any already. Lathe work and some milling tasks.

@@peterward2875 my exact thought, even a tapped hole in some round stock with a cap screw can do the job.

I'd just leave the lapping compound in there for a month or so while I used it lol. Is it the correct way? No, but it's the easiest.

Yep, messed up all that initial work by milling it afterward. Also likely milled the slots way too deep and compromised the strength of the pieces. Each time it's used with any force now those smaller pieces are likely to deform. And using it on a mill will get all sorts of junk in the moving parts too.

Yes I have been lapping things for years and that was most definitely either larger bits of the compound being crushed OR just being spread out a bit. Could also just be random crud that's fallen in being cut down into a paste also. Could also be machine lines ribboning off into the compound as there are some still visible on them when he started. If something is lapped nicely it often stops making noise and falls about just by gravity alone. First time I lapped precision parts I thought something was wrong with the compound I swapped o midway through after a few hours because it stopped making noises so I continued until I thought it had had enough but unfortunately I should have realized the lack of sound was the surfaced no longer grinding and that was a finished product. The part ended up way out of spec, floppy and sad. Very disappointing. The other thing to consider is his parts were lapped, modified and warped then put back together without lapping. In my opinion that's reverse order of operations. I also don't think WD-40 is a good compound to use on something like this too, it works well for low clamping forces but it loses all it's viscosity under pressure, think grease as stated would make a huge difference.

Even sharpening knives requires way more time to get the edges aligned, and that's a lot less surface area with more pressure and more grit. Should have left the compound in and articulated all of the joints at once in all directions. Would take a long time.

​@@hogandromgool2062i have no experience lapping but what you said makes sense. But I don't think it was WD-40, just WD-40 branded white lithium grease.

Well worth googling and watching videos on, precision engineering.

@@jaysunbradygood point! Thanks for giving me an idea of what to put on tonight.

100% on the glass dust. Silicosis is currently incurable, but may be preventable.

@@yobgodababua1862 yup, when he blew the dust and you saw all the glinty surfaces catch the light I was thinking silicosis all the way.

@@yobgodababua1862 You reminded me of the kid in elementary school who could say 'pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis'. It was very impressive.

@@lasagnahog7695 Thank you, and I have never said that word, but I did bring up the permittivity of free space in casual conversation yesterday.

​@@yobgodababua1862that's the type of conversation I like!

Luxury bones

Don't use it on your brain lol

Cheap toothpaste works pretty good as polishing compound. You have to use it with power, ideally an orbital buffer, but a drill works as well. It's more abrasive than you'd think tbh. Also the fancier toothpaste doesn't work as well, you want the cheap stuff.

I was going to suggest the same. Or some kind of PTFE lube.

Yeah, making the surface perfectly smooth is great, but still need a "bearing". In this case, lube.

Graphite powder.

Also, for mating surfaces, 1000 grit is pretty rough, 3000 grit or higher would be better. After 3000 grit, you quickly get to diminishing returns. The oil would need to be viscous as well. That way, it doesn't get pushed out of the joints over time. Is there a high viscosity, low friction, low shear force oil that is safe to use in a shop?

molybdenum disulphide

This isn't hard to do... like, at all. But hey, if you're impressed by simple things, so be it.

Yeah, but it's just a cool choice to make and worth appreciating

A classic Tested editing trick! I loved it the first time I heard it used, and it rewards every time.

@@VielofDarkness Do you also hate on people who enjoy sunsets and cold glasses of water?

@@thekingoffailure9967 I'm sorry, did I fray your sensitive safe-space boundaries? It's not Hate to identify simple tasks for what they are... simple.

Hmmmm, maybe something like saran wrap would be even better, less 'messy'?

​@@fewwiggleno adhesive would be good, but it would be unlikely for it to stick anyway because these types of things are kept with a light oil coating that will make it so few adhesives will actually hold well.

Definitely would be. There's always vertical protrusion around a stamp mark .

This got 100+ likes 😂 🤦‍♂️

Excellent catch!

Do they actually touch anything though? I don't see a point of contact for them

@@MelodicTurtleMetal I am not certain, but I do remember Adam saying that the stamped letters face downwards when it is assembled.

Speaking of diamonds, a diamond tipped bit would probably work better for cutting glass.

@@writerpatrickAs someone who has “drilled” glass, a diamond coated bit or the Dremel double helix work equally well. The main thing to remember is that you grind glass not drill it. As Adam was slotting, my hope was that he was going slow enough for heat to dissipate and freaking out about not having any grinding lube on it. In my experience he was lucky to only have a relatively few flakes come off.

Even worse is the fact that his parts washer now contains diamond lapping compound and will contaminate everything he washes in it.

​@@GrayRaceCatFOREVER

There's decent evidence that diamond abrasive actually doesn't last nearly as long as you would expect when used with steel, particularly low carbon steel. This is almost certainly not low carbon, but likely still would exhibit some of that excessive wearing tendency. It's been long hypothesized that the iron and carbon of the diamond are forming iron carbide. There's some research that suggests it may be due to other mechanisms. Either way, it's pretty well evidenced that iron does actually wear diamonds away, so that grit will not stick around forever.

"Good enough"... when it's to the standard "they" are paying for, which isn't always the best standard "I" can work too.. I can make it better, but they're not going to pay anymore for it (in my line of work anyway).

Once you realize perfection is utterly impossible, the only task is to define "good enough"

Yes, it seems like after warping those parts then fixing them with a hammer he needed to lap them a second time.

I actually came here to say just that!

Good Thought!

Totally agree. The smooth metal aids in vertical slipping as we saw with the bottle. The only other thing that could of been done would be to of put something beneath the bottle so it had a termination in movement. Alternatively changing the caliper design of the two surfaces that move towards each other would solve this same problem. Currently it is two books or plates on either side that move towards each other. If it was changed to one long but narrow plate in the middle from one side and then a matched groove in a long book from the other side such that they move through each other smoothly. The vice would maintain a mating surface beneath the jaws at all distances while still allowing them to clamp even a thin object.

Of course, thinking further the complication from this would be the pivot point. Will probably need to maintain a groove in the middle for the pivot area of the vice and work outside of that for the two plates to mesh next to each other from either side essentially with a tongue and groove.

I was going to recommend cross hatches in the faces.

Problem with smaller semi's having rounded edges, is you're decreasing contact area ALOT at that point. With perfectly rounded edges, they'd account for a total contact patch of less than 1 of those semi's as it is now. Imo what would work better is dipping the tips in silicone to get a thin film to give it more grip on the piece.

@@ianvisser7899 except, I dont think you technically want more "grip" in the classic sense. The vise isn't gripping the object like a normal flat faced vise would. You notice that, as you tighten the vise, it is conforming to the shape, instead of the shape conforming and adjusting to the vise. On a normal flat faced vise, the object you put in it will adjust to a point where it is evenly gripped at a couple points and will balance in the middle. The pressure will be different, where the vise touches the object and less on the places it doesn't. This causes stress on the object. On a fractal vise, the vise conforms to the shape of the object to reduce the amount of pressure in one given area. If you were to measure the pressure in any given area, it would be close to the same, regardless of where you are gripping. Silicone padding on the vise would alter that and make the vise grab in places that you wouldn't necessarily want. You want the vise to essentially roll into place, not grab the first spot it touches.

@@timothymallon Not quite, it would still rotate and conform to the shape, but with the little bit of compressible material, that happens to be very grippy, it would prevent scars on the piece from overtightening, it would allow for a tighter grip on the same locations, while also giving more vertical grip, which on a conventional vise would be gnarling of the faces to prevent the piece from slipping down as pressure is applied. As you can see with the fractal vise on the bottle, the moment pressure is applied, the smooth surfaces of the vise contact area and the bottle slip, thus not alot of vertical friction, that's the main purpose of silicone on the tips of the semi's, to give it a higher friction surface, with a low density, as to not scrape or scar the piece like gnarling would. If applied to the smallest semi's only on the forward and inner facing surfaces (i.e. not on the outer circumference, where it makes contact with the larger semi), it wouldnt impede the vise's action at all, while providing tangible benefits. For Adam's use of it on the bench drill jig, I'd actually venture to say it's a necessary addition, because there's simply no other way to preserve the action of the vise, while improving it's holding force on the object, without overtightening (in glass' case, will cause cracks, shatters and scars), or wrapping (eg. packing tape, which leaves residue and wont always be able to adhere to the surface).

Exactly. Captive (even no-longer free to rotate) ball bearings would be the ideal "grip" surfaces.

​@@AdmiralQualityyou would end up with fewer points of contact. I think the pressure from a round ending would apply way too much force in a single location.

I was thinking the same. That reduced the surface area in contact with the object being held. Maybe a vice with yet another row of half moons?

Maybe add a rubber surface that would slightly deform to grab the item better.

Yep, Adam should have talked to Hand Tool Rescue, I feel like HTR realized that issue with the lever length in one of his videos about the vice.

Yup. That extra width provided a lot of leverage to help rotate the teeth into place. Taking the corner off reduces the leverage and also allows the tooth to actually rotate the wrong way to "grab" on the beveled edge face.

Agreed. Now that the edge is gone the teeth have to reach farther to make contact.

I have used “gription” before, “sticktion” is new! Thank you, lol!

​@@beeumble6450Sticktion is a very common term in the mountain biking world. It's used to refer to "stickiness" in suspension components (forks, etc.). I doubt we made it up; it probably was used by various motorsports before we started to use it.

@@robadams1645 The word dates back to the 1940s. First used by aero engineers.

I'd personally try making the parts out of brass or bronze alternating with steel. You generally get less friction between dissimilar metals and those two are good bearing materials by themselves. That way it might be able slide without lubrication. Then again, that would be rebuilding most of the vice, so quite the effort and the material would be more expensive.

@@beeumble6450 I don't know where it came from. Every time I've heard it it was always in reference to machined surfaces sticking together. I think its really spelled "stiction". Stick-slip is also kind of the same thing.

this is where insert for jaws instead of machined grooves would've been perfect. Make some from an old drive belt.

​@@idontwantcorporateretaliat6301Hey, different inserts? Great idea.

the reason this works is beacuse the water puts pressure on the inside and outside off the glass, while also cooling it. though id imagine he dosnt want to throw his vice in water lol

Or buy a spray can of Molybond 122L…

As a locksmith and key cutter we recommend to puff graphite into locks that are sticky instead of wd40 or similar as itll clog/bind up over time with bits of grit and grime in the lube, where as graphite 'laps' the surfaces and make the lock much smoother

@@leepullon1147 Graphite accelerates corrosion on ferrous metals… A bit of caution is required regarding materials compatibility…

I would avoid graphite if it may be used around oils. graphite is great for a dry vise but when cutting oil is introduced it makes a paste that can bind once dried and restrict movement. I personally use a dry Teflon lube for my vices and screws on my cnc and mill. have to reapply every few weeks but never had a case where i needed to take apart and brush parts clean since i swapped over.

@allangibson8494 Normally you'd be correct but typically in the UK our locks are made from copper and zinc. Stainless and other materials are used for the cam and casing so wouldn't be much of a factor as the important materials are non ferrous

yeah, i worried even before he began the milling whether there was at least a mask involved. and then i kept hearing the blowing away of dust. i'm not sure whether it was the compressor all through out, sounded rather like mouth blown. adam should consider designing something that reminded him of his psa every now and then...

honing cylinders is mostly to create a surface where the oil will have space and sticks better ( you never wan't the oil film to break ). perfectly smooth can be rather different, depending on the applied forces, surface, material and smoothness. you can get stuff so smooth it cold welds together, not slippery any more then... when applying force, often you compromise because friction throgh irregularities is varying so much that you get jumpy behaviour, so you trade "not as slippery as it could get" for consistency in slipperiness

Even at 1000 grit the surface isn't going to be perfectly smooth and will still be loaded with micro surface scratches which you can see in the fact that they're not polished to a mirror shine. This should be plenty of oil-holding for such a low speed application.

They are "stickier" they suction together. That's where the grease comes in. The choice of WD-40 instead of grease actually makes this suction FAR worse. If you get two pieces of glass and put oil on them then rub them together they will stick together. Grease them next and you'll see they do "stick" but they aren't suctioned together like the oiled ones are. Take apart any mechanical equipment hat has honed surfaces, there will NEVER be oil, always grease because it has micro-particulate in it that artificially makes the surface irregular enough to slide freely. Graphite powder is one of the best lubricants because of how small it's particle size is, it's used for a lot of precision surfaces.

Makes sense--that's why mill and lathe ways are scraped rather than sanded.

I had the same thought, need some moly grease - pretty cool stuff from a molecular perspective - they form little 'sheets' of M with S on either side, so you end up with a bajillion little nano-scale springy 'plates' which prevent the surfaces from coming in contact.

graphite and oil are good lubricants on their own, but don't mix them together; over time they will seize up. Depending on how often you reapply oil you may not have experienced it yet; but it does happen.

@@ghffrsfygdhfjkjiysdz It is a very light oil, it might even evaporate over time. The joints seem dry after a few weeks. Also, I did not have to reapply on any that were not getting cleaned in between.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but graphite won't lap steel beyond a geological timescale due to the wide disparity in hardness.

​@@ExtremeSquaredunless it's pencil lead, maybe.

@@crackedemerald4930 There's not that much difference between pencil lead and a graphite brush used in motors with direct contact with copper. The goal of a motor brush is roughly the exact opposite of lapping compound.

​@@ExtremeSquaredactually there is. Pencil "lead" is a mixture of graphite and clay (silica) the ratio of which is where the different harnesses comes from.

I would probably go with a dry ceramic instead of graphite personally.

some sort of sheet metal cover that only leaves enough of the last vice head exposed would do it too if he wanted to make it look pretty

I was wondering about that. The truer the surfaces the more surface area is going to be in contact with each other. That's not necessarily a good thing. Isn't that how gauge blocks stick together?

Lube is a must for similar metals in a dovetail joint, but with a high viscosity grease, the more coplanar the surfaces are, the more freely they'll move. Any sort of lobing or nonplanar area will pressure the grease to squeeze out of tight spots, or fill voids in loose spots; this takes a significant amount of mechanical pressure, even on thinner greases. A more viscous grease will allow for a thinner film that still adequately protects, which is really what you want for surfaces that are going to vised together. I'd go with molybdenum disulfide for this application.

Invert the fasteners from the original and make them a channeled slot an suck. Them into each other. No perfect matting surface and less room for debris to be a issue and easier to produce n manufacture

Or roller pins like needle bearings

I feel a new patent coming along lol

You CAN go back and start over as an engineer, if that is your desire.I give you permission, lol. 😂

As a software engineer, I deeply resent your remark.

@@AdmiralQuality Relax, lol. Not everyone is satisfied by the same things, which keeps the world interesting.

@@wildflower1397Again, I resent the suggestion that we achieve things by random flailing. That is *not* engineering!

@@AdmiralQuality Fiddling, optimizing, and puzzling are not flailing, lol. They are the description of the experience of learning. Fiddling is learning your framework or materials and exploring what they can do, and the limits they have. Trial and error often lead to amazing new designs and adaptations. Optimizing is looking at flaws and figuring out how to overcome them, or cutting out and streamlining where needed. Puzzling is thinking about potential solutions, considering the project and it's implications overall or in specifics, and using your mind and creatvity to figure things out. Toddlers, birds, monkeys, octopi, and everything with intelligence does these things on some level, including humans of all levels and experience. Watch a toddler figure out how to stack blocks of various sizes, and you will see these things all happening at once. Resentment is a waste of time, especially when you could be busy elsewhere being delighted by something new.

The compression force of the vice is far greater than the force of gravity pulling the piecesdown

@@jesuschris9543 but it still might be a very slightly different surface. If you image the part has some (microscopic) clearance on the to and bottom, lapping it upside down will polish the top-surface and the higher-corner; but then gravity causes the part to primarily rest on the bottom surface and slide against the bottom corner. I don’t know if he was varying the upward/downward pressure while lapping, and I don’t know if this is a significant effect, but the relative strength of gravity and pressure isn’t a factor- it’s not about forces, it’s about whether the upside-down lapping mated all the same surfaces that are used when it’s right-side up.

I get the feeling that the bigger issue is coming from his clamping force when cutting those slots. He should have done more lapping afterwards.

@@jesuschris9543 that's true but you can see in the video him moving it with his hands even binds much more once he changes orientation

Umm, some of us are visual learners. Adam, please obtain three rocks for your next video...