AMD Ryzen Gaming, What's More Important: CPU Cores or Cache?
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Video Index
00:00 - Welcome to Hardware Unboxed
00:52 - Core i5-10600K vs i9-10900K [cores disabled]
04:40 - Test System Specs
05:19 - Baldur’s Gate 3
06:17 - Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty
07:11 - Hogwarts Legacy
07:53 - Star Wars Jedi Survivor
08:42 - Assetto Corsa Competizione
09:32 - Spider-Man Remastered
10:14 - A Plague Tale: Requiem
10:51 - Assassin's Creed Mirage
11:33 - Watch Dogs: Legion
12:04 - Hitman 3
12:28 - 12 Game Average
13:19 - Final Thoughts
Read this feature on TechSpot: www.techspot.com/review/2811-...
AMD Ryzen Gaming, What's More Important: CPU Cores or Cache?
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Outro music by David Vonk/DaJaVo
@DragonOfTheMortalKombat 2 місяці тому
The one thing that improves gaming performance for sure is more Cash.
@Trip4man 2 місяці тому
Nope... Because there are components that are extra costly and don't provide that much performance. And in fact, cheaper components can provide as much performance as pricier ones. So it's actually more about Finding the Best Value than just simply blindly go buy the pricier things.
@commandertoothpick8284 2 місяці тому
@@Trip4man someone didnt get the joke
@TheDarksideFNothing 2 місяці тому
@@Trip4man"uhm akshyually" lol. It was a good joke the dude made. Sure, you're right, it's not always true that spending more equals greater perf. But on average, for most people, increasing budget will allow for better performance.... And the joke was funny! So chill lmao
@Jakiyyyyy 2 місяці тому
You want more Cache, I want more Cash. We are not the same.
@Somebody374-bv8cd 2 місяці тому
More cache: This does not spark joy. More cash: This sparks joy.
@Fantomas24ARM 2 місяці тому
AMD has hit a jackpot with it's 3D V-Cache technology.
@Breakfast_of_Champions 2 місяці тому
Intel only did it as a one-off with the 5775C, never followed up on it.
@TheDarksideFNothing 2 місяці тому
Isn't it great that V-Cache was just a skunk works for funsies thing one of their engineers cooked up? Wasn't even really in the plans until the prototype was super impressive. Info from someone's AMD tour... Maybe LTT? Gamers Nexus? I can't remember now
@PhillipLemmon 2 місяці тому
Yeah but they also hit a wall with it..... Which is why they are putting it in EVERYTHING now. Cuz they know that AI chip ain't shit, LMFAO!!!
@winterscrescendo 2 місяці тому
@@TheDarksideFNothing That was Gamers Nexus. Interestingly, Threadripper has a similar origin story. AMD seems to have a company culture that lets their engineers experiment a bit and it's paid off for them greatly.
@catsspat 2 місяці тому
@@Breakfast_of_Championsi7-5775C's technology isn't even close. That is an L4 eDRAM cache attached on the side. Not only is eDRAM much slower than SRAM, it's just a standard MCM (side-by-side) module attached through a standard bus. The incredible magic of 3D V-Cache is that it adds practically no additional latency, because it's literally right there, where the regular L3 cache logic is. Any company can make a giant chip with more L3 cache, but that will lead to additional latencies (bigger == further away), and cost more due to sinking yield.
@BestKosmakCZ 2 місяці тому
I just upgraded to 5800x3d from my old 2700x.I see about 30% performance gain in average FPS with my 6700XT, and the stuttering, frame time spikes are all gone, I can finally enjoy fluid gaming in most of the games.
@tommihommi1 2 місяці тому
it really is amazing how much of a difference going from a 3600 to a 5800x3d made, even while using a measly RX480 and technically "gpu bound" 99% of the time. Those moments when the CPU slogs you down really ruin gaming fun
@fracturedlife1393 2 місяці тому
30% sounds low, maybe lower some settings if playing anything competitive. I went 38xt to 58x3d, I was CPU limited in ACC and EPIC graphics settings everywhere didn't impact max / average FPS much. Dialled back some settings that are pretty useless when playing and almost doubled FPS at race starts, average 50% higher overall.
@bigjoeangel 2 місяці тому
I went from a 2700x to a 5600 on a Radeon 6700 10G and even losing two cores I still get massive performance gains.
@BestKosmakCZ 2 місяці тому
@@fracturedlife1393 competetive games will see larger gains, Elden Ring maxed at 1440p just got smooth frame pacing now :)
@sannidhyabalkote9536 2 місяці тому
@@fracturedlife1393 from cpu bound to gpu bound :)
@KpopIsDead69 2 місяці тому
cores = muscles cache = oxygen
@71janas 2 місяці тому
Spot on 👍
@LikkleleeUK 2 місяці тому
great analogy!
@fracturedlife1393 2 місяці тому
Ha classic. Cores=allnattymuscles Cache=steroids
@weltsiebenhundert 2 місяці тому
VRAM = ???
@igoresque 2 місяці тому
More like cache=blood vessels
@QuentinStephens 2 місяці тому
When I saw the title I thought, "Haven't you already done this with Intel?" I wonder what would happen if you took the 64 core or 96 core Threadripper and disabled all but 8 cores. Would that give those 8 cores 384 MB of L3 cache?
@scamdem1c 2 місяці тому
peopIe should upvote this so hardwareunboxed sees it and tries it out
@markjacobs1086 2 місяці тому
Depends on the layout if that's beneficial or not. Accessing cache on a different CCD induces a hefty latency penalty that would reduce performance in most instances.
@scamdem1c 2 місяці тому
@@markjacobs1086 is that latency penalty worth it over the latency penalty of having to access RAM?
@MrHamof 2 місяці тому
@@scamdem1cGo check out the 7950x review, look at it's scores compared to the 7700x. The answer is no. It's at best equal, in some cases worse.
@anttikangasvieri1361 2 місяці тому
@@scamdem1cprobably, ram access penalty is hundreds of clocks.
@jrherita 2 місяці тому
Funny we forgot the lessons learned during the Core 2 Duo and Quad era. The extra cache on Penryn vs Conroe (especially 2M Conroe) mattered more than the # of cores for gaming
@user-lp5wb2rb3v 2 місяці тому
yep, this is why a eon with lots of chache is still relevant
@saricubra2867 2 місяці тому
Then Intel Ring Bus came on Sandy Bridge and made a huge improvement in perfomance.
@theglobol 2 місяці тому
I love these kinds of comparisons. Thank you for doing them.
@zJericho101z 2 місяці тому
It's allways worth revisiting these types of subjects if only to help newbies learn more about the machines they are buying. Also updated / expanded testing data is allways good.
@ScottOmatic 2 місяці тому
As someone who plays a lot simulation type games, I am continually grateful that you included Assetto Corsa Competizone in your testing suite. For people that primarily play racing sims, flight sims, and large scale military sims, like ARMA, testing and comparing CPU cache as well as core count is integral to find out what hardware is the best choice for these kinds of titles. The way these games operate is so greatly different than most other games, mostly being console ports with not a lot of instruction sets being sent to the CPU in comparison.
@AnthonyTeasdale 2 місяці тому
Cache is King.
@George_K. 2 місяці тому
Content is King, too!
@BBB-999 2 місяці тому
Well I’d like both
@Alex-qq1gm 2 місяці тому
Wu Tang said it first. Cache Rules Everything Around Me.
@beachslap7359 2 місяці тому
When it can be utilized yeah, but a brute force single core combined with low latency is more consistent in its results. That's why I'm interested to see how arrow lake pans out considering Intel is ditching hyperthreading for the sake of single core performance.
@ZaHandle 2 місяці тому
No one got the “cash is king” reference
@carllavery4442 2 місяці тому
I actually upgraded from the 5700G to the 5800X3D last year and it'd one of the best PC components I've ever bought
@tilapiadave3234 2 місяці тому
5800X3D ,, the most overhyped cpu of all time ,, and over-priced
@carllavery4442 2 місяці тому
@tilapiadave3234 nonsense
@IceBreakBottle 2 місяці тому
@@tilapiadave3234 That's why AMD is dominating the CPU market now...
@LupusAries 2 місяці тому
@@tilapiadave3234given that in Germany you can get one for 277 Euros while the 5700X3D is 253..... nope!
@ThEoNeAnDoNlYmE0 2 місяці тому
@@tilapiadave3234said no one ever
@AdalbertSchneider_ 2 місяці тому
3:10 wow, dictator Steve :D:D:D But hey, you are good dictator ! :D
@Diegonando64 2 місяці тому
3D cache also improves winRAR performance a lot, because the dictionary fits inside cache and the processor won´t go to main memory frequently.
@FateXO 2 місяці тому
7zip better
@Diegonando64 Місяць тому
@@FateXO i'm excited about zstd and FSE-related compressors
@Dankyjrthethird Місяць тому
@@FateXO You’re pushing your luck little man.
@FateXO Місяць тому
@@Dankyjrthethird what you finna do about it old timer
@gamingoptimized 2 місяці тому
Cache itself is important, but it depends on how accessible it is to all the CPU's cores. If you have 20mb of cache but a core can access only 1/8th of it, its far worse than if one core can access all of the cache. That's basically why zen 3 is so much faster than zen 2. A core can access twice as much cache on zen 3 compared to zen 2
@Syssn3ck 2 місяці тому
This here is about L3-Cache that is shared between all cores. But yeah L1/L2-Cashes also matter but are not easily comparable, because they are usually the same for the same architecture. And when comparing between two different architectures, there are more factors than just L1/L2 that are responsible for the performance gain.
@cpt.tombstone 2 місяці тому
Generally speaking, only L1-I and L1-D caches are private in modern CPU architectures. L2 cache is "on the core" meaning it's physically allocated to each core, but other cores can "snoop" L2 caches of other cores. With Zen, this can only happen inside a CCD, so Core 0 (on CCD 0) cannot access the L2 cache of Core 8 (on CCD 1). This is partly why multi CCD Zen chips are not better in games. L3 cache is again CCD-public, meaning any core on the same CCD can access the L3 cache, but other CCDs cannot. As you mentioned, with Zen 2, a CCD was 4-cores and a CCX contained 2 CCDs. With Zen 3, Zen 4 and Zen 4c, a CCD is 8 cores.
@JackJohnson-br4qr 2 місяці тому
A good example for Zen 2 is Ryzen 5 3600 vs Ryzen 7 3700X. The Ryzen 5 3600 has 32MB of shared L3 cache between cores and the other one does not. But the difference in performance is only 5%. But that can be attributed to more cores and a higher frequency rather than a difference in cache. People have learned that the cache makes a big difference in Zen 3, but then they try to apply it retroactively to older architectures as well. I don't think Zen 2 was designed to benefit significantly from more cache.
@gamingoptimized 2 місяці тому
@@JackJohnson-br4qr the cache on zen 2 was shared between 4 cores, thus an 8 core 3700x did have 32mb of cache but each 4 core CCD could access 16mb. That changed with zen 3 where each core had access to the 32mb of cache as there is no CCD anymore
@h1tzzYT 2 місяці тому
@@cpt.tombstone except that dual ccd chips are faster in games, not by much with varying results, but in general they are the same or faster than single CCD chips
@sivu2048 2 місяці тому
Excel, browser and other productivity applications' impact on core frequency, ipc and cache will be much appreciated as most of the day to day tasks are still single threaded
@antgib 2 місяці тому
Yes, I'd be very interested to see all the same CPU's tested against general apps/productivity. Especially as the much larger cache on the X3D chips usually results in lower frequency, which in theory matters more outside of games, but it would be nice to see all that confirmed.
@Ziontrainism 2 місяці тому
This was one of the most informative CPU videos I've ever seen. Good job making great content in a time where there isn't much happening as far as new parts.
@roblyc632 2 місяці тому
I had a 5900x 12 core and changed to a 7800x3d 8 core and don't regret it for gaming now.
@DungxxHen 2 місяці тому
Did you get 5900x for gaming?
@Jakiyyyyy 2 місяці тому
Does that mean cache are more important than cores?
@Mario211DE 2 місяці тому
I still have my 5900x and now waiting for the Zen5. Gaming in 4k and streaming at the same time
@DungxxHen 2 місяці тому
@@Mario211DE I don't think you need to upgrade
@Mario211DE 2 місяці тому
@@DungxxHen thing is tho im cpu bound even at 4k in different games already which is interesting
@DaveOfRock 2 місяці тому
Super useful video, as always! Thanks Steve!
@iansrven3023 2 місяці тому
very interesting, will be installing 5700X3D tomorrow from 3500X, my wife's PC ended up being a good upgrade path from 8700K PC.
@adi22121 Місяць тому
upgraded my 3700x to 5700x3d and i'm loving it. the 3700x was great for its price back in the day, but the 5700x3d is just amazing
@danield.8615 2 місяці тому
That's why I love you guys from down under. You're making videos to topics or questions the viewers would like to get answered. 👌👍
@romzen 2 місяці тому
I was running Intel for at least 4 of my last builds and was about to go for the 14700k a week ago. Then I stumbled over some information on the lifecycle and the fact that AM5 would be more future proof for another couple of years while being superior for gaming anyway due to the cache. And then I also noticed that the R7 7800X3D also was way more efficient and cooler. All that while costing less in total together with an Aorus Master mainboard. Had to reconfigure my cart eventually and go with AMD of course. Super glad right now.
@michealmeyers9789 2 місяці тому
I was on intel for a decade. My last build was 5800x3d, very efficient never regret will last at least 5 more years.
@johnfirst3986 2 місяці тому
hi planing also to buy 7800x3d AMD path, can you share me your build list ? thanks and have a nice day
@romzen 2 місяці тому
@@johnfirst3986 I went with - Corsair 7000D Airflow (Big Tower) white - Aorus Master B650E (Mainboard) - 7800X3D (of course) cooled by Noctua NH-D15 - Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB CL30 AMD EXPO (RAM) - Corsair RM850x (PSU) - MSI GeForce RTX 4080 Super 16G Gaming X Slim White (GPU) I had plenty of storage left from my older machine. And I game at 1440p for the most part. The build is overkill for what I need as I mostly play fighting games. Even the most recent games will not need the 4080 to consume more than 50 watts.
@katzicael 2 місяці тому
Love the blowing up of the "More cores/multi-tasking!" argument points. Well done guys.
@Incommensurabilities 2 місяці тому
it's quite surprising to me, but good to know!
@MaxUmbra 2 місяці тому
Really great idea for a video Very helpful definitely 🙏🏻 Love the content like always
@Morkail321 2 місяці тому
oh wow this is a subject ive been wondering about for awhile thanks for the video
@deezayum 2 місяці тому
Just got my 5800x3d a few days ago. 🥳 Long live AM4
@jmal 2 місяці тому
AM4ever!
@HazewinDog 2 місяці тому
AM4 is going to beat LGA1155 in terms of usable lifespan :)
@GodyArtDesign Місяць тому
Maybe we are Lucky And they will bring a other New cpu with x3d for am4
@KITOMERO 2 місяці тому
What about L2 and L1 cache size?
@perecatherine 2 місяці тому
I was just wondering about this with my brother yesterday, thank you for the explanation!
@mukkah 2 місяці тому
Thanks for doing a video you found interesting to do and that's why ya did it ^^ Found it intereresting too, for sure =) ~a random canadian viewer
@OtherwiseUknownMonkey 2 місяці тому
i really want to see a 1gb cache one day lmao you could cram a whole old game in there
@TheDarksideFNothing 2 місяці тому
Hell even a modern game you could fit enough of it in there to easily mask any data swapping. We already see where some games see no benefit because they've already optimized to fit in normal amounts of cache so at some point you lose the benefits. But I do wonder if a dev KNEW they were getting 1GB if they'd be able to take advantage of it in really interesting ways.
@OtherwiseUknownMonkey 2 місяці тому
Yeah the one thing I keep wondering about how one could optimize if they knew they were getting 1gb of cache. i personally wonder if it would help raytracing performance at all since that hits performance the hardest@@TheDarksideFNothing
@TheDarksideFNothing 2 місяці тому
@@OtherwiseUknownMonkey Yeah, I think a full GB of cache would be much more about seeing what new things you could do vs making existing things go faster. Right now all things are designed around small caches because that's the hardware that exists in mainstream. But some applications miss the mark, and that's where V-Cache shines.
@kingkrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa4527 2 місяці тому
Intel is apparently working on a last level cache that goes up to 8GB.
@OtherwiseUknownMonkey 2 місяці тому
@@TheDarksideFNothing i wish i could hear a tech artist talk and a programmer talk on it, with 1gb cache on cpu you could make worlds feel so much more lively eith more intricate ai routines i imagine, and if you had a gig of cache on the gpu you could keep whole lightmaps in there, like lets say the game let the gpu know where the lighting will be at in 10 seconds from now and you could smartly interpolate those lightmaps that will still be in cache the whole time making rendering sm faster
@matttiaz7576 2 місяці тому
I always follow the suggestion/raccomandation from Steve and Tim , NEVER let me down !! CPU , GPU , Monitors , I based my purchases on this channel , I did NEVER regret ANY decision. They are the best IMO.
@ShoGUN1Master 2 місяці тому
Great topic and review, thx!
@joshsousa1090 Місяць тому
This and the x3d comparison was super helpful!
@tomsun3159 2 місяці тому
Another dimension to check is Cache Size vs. ClockFrequency with similar corecount, as 3DVCache is usually lower clocked as standard Cache-CPUs
@PaulSpades 2 місяці тому
At this point, all desktop cpus run at outrageously high (inefficient) clock rates. Everything over 3ghz is mostly a waste of power. Look at gpu clock rates.
@nicholaswicks3077 2 місяці тому
@@PaulSpadeslooks over at my 6.3 ghz 14900k pc 👁️👄👁️
@pizzaparity 2 місяці тому
@@PaulSpadeswhy is that?
@Eidolon2003 2 місяці тому
@@PaulSpades Performance scales with clock speed far past 3 GHz, what are you even talking about?
@impuls60 2 місяці тому
@@Eidolon2003 Agreed, this whole test is done on cpu's starved of ram info throughput. Zen2/3 have high latency to ram and ofcourse a cache buffer will diminish that problem somewhat. On Intel one can oc ring and cache for over 6Ghz scaling. This has been true for over 10years on Intel. Only HW likes to pretend this isnt doable on Intel, rofl. On Intel no oc guy leaves ring and cache on stock speed when oc'ing.
@QuantumS1ngularity 2 місяці тому
I will be forever thankful to you guys for the review of the 5800X3D almost 2 years ago. If it wasn't for your benchmark with ACC i probably wouldn't have jumped on the X3D train and wouldn't have experienced the monster that this chip is. 18 months plus and counting and still feel completely blown away by the performance every time i load a game.
@HazewinDog 2 місяці тому
It's a shame no one ever tested it with the original AC (+ CSP). I only recently decided to make the jump to X3D, upgrading from the 3700X to the 5800X3D. and my goodness was I not prepared for the difference. I legitimately get up to 105% higher framerate. Yes, over twice the framerate. And that's with a 4060 Ti, so the potential gains with a higher end GPU can probably be much higher still. X3D is such a blessing in many CPU-heavy titles.
@MCstrickG6 2 місяці тому
Very informative, thank you. There are some particularities, but but some things will never linear.
@EhNothing Місяць тому
Really fantastic video! Great information, great data presentation, and very educational for buyers. Thanks Steve!
@skilletpan5674 2 місяці тому
Core count and mhz are linked. High cache is about removing latency issues. If your cores or high mhz cpu is waiting for a chunk of ram from system ram the it dosn't matter if you have 6 or 7ghz cpu. It will be idle. A high cache helps to mitigate this issue by guessing what you might want to load in the future and keep it closer. The P4 tried to do this but their long pipeline killed the gains from the cache. The P4 had to flush the long pipelines and it took a long time.
@BulleTinY0uRHeaD 2 місяці тому
You need to test competitive games like a BF, COD, APEX, PUBG. It is for them that people upgrade their CPU\RAM in the first place.
@awebuser5914 2 місяці тому
It's been implied by testing, but L2 cache is incredibly important as well, arguably with more impact. Raptor Lake's performance improvements are almost entirely based on in a large increases in L2 cache (not all 13th gen did get L2 cache increases, basically it's 13600K+). The nVidia Lovelace architecture also saw massive gains by increasing L2 cache sizes. At a basic level, L2 cache is "easier" and less expensive to implement than stacked dies.
@TheDarksideFNothing 2 місяці тому
L2 just has less options for blowing up majorly in size. I think even the latency of V-Cache would be too great for L2 IIRC Would be interesting if they figured a way to use all the L3 space on the die for L2 and then use V-Cache only for L3. Best of both worlds.
@awebuser5914 2 місяці тому
@@TheDarksideFNothing "L2 just has less options for blowing up majorly in size..." The "problem" is that L3 size has significantly diminishing returns in performance gains. You could probably cut the L3 (per core) in half on an X3D chip and see very similar results.
@kosmosyche 2 місяці тому
@@awebuser5914 You are probably right about diminishing returns, but I wonder if the relative ceiling of L3 cache effectiveness on Ryzens has even been reached yet. Right now it's obvious that 96MB is much better than 32MB (for games), but what if they tried 128MB, 160MB or even 192MB of V-Cache? 😁
@WayStedYou 2 місяці тому
They wouldn't just because of expense. It may even be better to just tack another 32mb on instead of 64mb@kosmosyche
@JonWood007 2 місяці тому
No, Steve did a comparison on that. Most of it is clock speed and RAM speed, the difference in L2 cache is like 1 frame.
@Dylan_Shaw 2 місяці тому
Been saying this since Intel's mesh architecture (I had a 7820x), so it's great seeing more and more videos confirm cache is so important! Great video.
@gamingbros8472 2 місяці тому
So 6 cores are fine with just gaming and more cache would be usually better . How does it hold up when u also streaming from the same pc? Would a cpu with more cores then be better, or a cpu with less cores but more cache? Dunno if this a yes or no question or 'it depends' :P
@neilparker-smith7554 2 місяці тому
"Why am I doing this. Because I want to ". At this point, the video gets a like. Because I want to 😊
@KtotheL 2 місяці тому
ive always meant to take the time to THANK YOU !!! for having such a nice channel and for all the hard work it takes to get it here !
@djhillesq 2 місяці тому
You guys always seem to make videos answering questions I've wanted to know the answers to. Cheers!
@therealad1238 2 місяці тому
A few certain UKpostsrs aren't going to like this one...
@jhaluska80 29 днів тому
I appreciate your no nonsense video titles.
@vladislavkaras491 Місяць тому
Really impressive how big changes are in fps and how much L3 cache has changed over years! Thanks for the benchmarks!
@nicktempletonable 2 місяці тому
Great video Tim!! I love it!!
@UbergamR447 2 місяці тому
I do find this interesting! thank you for the video :)
@hankblah 2 місяці тому
Very great content ! Keep it up !
@cobrakainevereverdies6940 2 місяці тому
*ABSOLUTE GENIUS WORK* As a geeky request, if you can compare the 7000 series x3d models. Please
@bingbong4745 2 місяці тому
Love this channel. Exponentially increases my enjoyment for pc tech and gaming.
@GewelReal 2 місяці тому
To me bigger difference would be cache vs frequency I am using X99 based Xeons and some games benefit so much from cache that it doubles my framerate despite running
@WereCatStudio 2 місяці тому
Just look at 5700X3D vs 5800X3D reviews. They are almost the same perf while 5700X3D runs by around 400MHz-500MHz slower.
@HazewinDog 2 місяці тому
good call to be honest. we already know 12 threads is more than enough, but frequency VS cache is a whole different animal, as some games will heavily favor frequency, whereas others will heavily favor cache.
@Darknyte82 2 місяці тому
Your more candid tone in this video made me laugh more. Thanks for the great content.
@ChrisPkmn 2 місяці тому
14:59 shots fired. Lookin at you byte size tech
@TheXev 2 місяці тому
I remember many hears ago buying a used Opteron X2 170 for gaming. It had one more core and a boat load more cache then it's Athlon 64 equivalent, and even being 200Mhz slower it out gamed pretty much any Athlon 64 because of the added cache. I was also able to sink a 1Ghz overclock on that bad boy and REALLY crank out the performance.. good times.
@shahrukhwolfmann6824 Місяць тому
More content like this, please! 💯
@craig527 2 місяці тому
cheers steve a interesting watch, i knew cache was important but not to that degree bring on the 186mb l3 cache 8 cores cpus
@jtraimundo 16 днів тому
Thanks for the video.
@tomstech4390 2 місяці тому
12600k alderlake vs 14400 "raptor lake refresh" Lock the cores and caches to the same frequency (and tdp's) and see if there's any change in architecture... because they're the same die.
@axescar 2 місяці тому
Thank you! I'd rather add as optional opponents 4600g and 4700g. They have only zen2 cores but twice less L3 when compare to 5xxxG parts, so L3 compare chain can be wider - from 8 to 96MB :)
@_0ttooo_ Місяць тому
tremendo contenido el que hace este señor, una información bien clara sobre lo que realmente importa a la hora configurar un pc, me encantó el video!
@MrAlexander100 2 місяці тому
Are you going to do another video on CPU scaling with high end GPUs at all the resolutions ?
@johnesau3694 2 місяці тому
Hey steve. Love the vid. Whould love see a vid abpit whether an ssd with dram cache makes a sense for a gaming pc. Does more expensive storage make a differnce?
@SamuelJakobs 2 місяці тому
Great video! But I feel like taking clock speed into consideration would be important
@Dazzxp 2 місяці тому
This was why i upgraded from a 3900X to a 5800x3D, despite the core deficit i mostly play games but also i wanted a single CCX 1x8 rather than 4x3 core because of the cross-talk between cores over the infinity fabric and accessing the cache. Still using an RTX2080 so while over all fps has not changed much (GPU limit) but my 1% lows has been reduced by over 50%. Also games don't like too many CPU cores as it messes up the scheduling which epic has came out about crashes on Intel CPU's because of core count.
@user-wz7bw7yk4p 2 місяці тому
Great job Steve
@Ralipsi 2 місяці тому
Great demonstration!
@donematt1862 2 місяці тому
Chiplet vs monolithic would also be interesting
@mastax1234 2 місяці тому
The 3D V-cache absolutely makes a different in frametimes too, I went from the 5800X to the 5800X 3D and the caching stutters went away, I was getting insane shader cache stutters on the regular 5800X and they were non existent on the 3D version, this is after a full driver install and the cache cleared.
@joaocrespo1065 2 місяці тому
What about more cores with background tasks running? Usually while i'm gaming I also have things like Firefox with UKposts playing, listening to Spotify, downloading stuff, etc... Would be nice to do some kind of standard test for thoose use cases.
@syncmonism 2 місяці тому
OMG! These are my favourite kinds of videos!
@FrietjeOorlog 2 місяці тому
Thanks Steve!
@kasimirdenhertog3516 2 місяці тому
It would be interesting to do a deep dive into this subject and trace the CPU operations to see how many times L3 cache is hit and how many times main memory during gaming. That would give you conclusive information.
@billwhoever2830 Місяць тому
Something that has to be noted is that cache architecture is far more complex than just adding more even if it's possible, the corecount, the cores, the task and the L1 and L2 caches affect how much L3 is optimal. In general a larger cache is slower so there is an optimal value for the cache for each task. Slower cache means it takes longer to access it but it means you have to access the even slower RAM less often. If your task has very little memory requirements (takes very little ram space) then a cpu with larger L3 can actually become slower. Games get heavier and heavier so we might get L4 cache soon in the form of HBM on the chip and the L3 caches might get smaller.
@artins90 2 місяці тому
I would appreciate a follow-up to this video covering emulation performance, RPCS3 and Yuzu specifically.
@Freddie1980 2 місяці тому
If anything this really highlights the impact of swapping data in and out of system ram has on overall performance.
@evanjames93 2 місяці тому
Can we see a cache vs clock speed video? How much do the non 3D skus make up in performance with their clock speed increase over the 3D variants? Only a curiosity of mine because I moved from 7600x at 5.5ghz to a 7800x3d at around 4.6 ghz.
@TheBenMillard 2 місяці тому
In these charts, the 5800X has faster clocks than the 5800X3D. The 5600X has faster clocks than the 5600X3D. In simple games, faster cores can be an advantage because those games don't fill the 'normal' cache sizes. (Anything in a modern engine like UE4 will be more complicated than this.) Productivity workloads are often spamming a small set of instructions on a large amount of unique data. Cores and clocks help those more than cache - if the task can be spread across cores, that is. Conversely, going from a 5000 CPU to a 7000 CPU is a change of architecture and memory goes from DDR4 to DDR5. The also doubled the L2 cache on each core. ~15% more instructions per cycle in each core and more memory bandwidth alone should give ~30% more performance for the same clock+core+L3 cache configuration. 7800X3D should boost up to 5050MHz per core. Have a read about PBO, curve optimiser and the +200MHz "Boost Clock" setting your motherboard BIOS should have. Task Manager might not report the full clock speed you are getting. HWinfo and similar tools will show it. If your motherboard has an external clock generator, ScatterBench has an article about overclocking X3D a bit. It may even have a built-in, pre-tuned overclocked profile.
@ELCrisler 2 місяці тому
The other thing not mentioned is that cache can help vs clock speed. The 5800X and 5600X chips both have higher clocks and yet are showing some serious performance difference in gaming.
@BlackHoleForge 2 місяці тому
I really like this episode. Can you guys do another episode comparing l3 caches versus speed of ram?
@dlynbake7612 2 місяці тому
love the slightly more technical videos
@m_sedziwoj 2 місяці тому
Great video, hope AMD and Intel will use this to make more cache for gaming CPU, because it is interesting how far is scale.
@gloth 2 місяці тому
To be honest, after the release & reviews of the X3D cpus we kinda already knew those results. Steve you are an absolute legend mate.... I was honestly just writing "What would be an interesting, but also almost impossible to accurate measure, is the number of cores that start to make a difference when playing games in a more real life example and not in a benchmarking environment. So, basically, what happens when you play a game on a windows pc that is not a clean installation to get accurate results for the hardware you test, but when you have youtube, discord, motherboard/peripheral background software, various tabs on a browser open, etc"... And I see you 've already covered this on 15:00
@MrExino 2 місяці тому
Hey Steve, This was a great video, I was just looking into 5800X3D as a potential upgrade path as it does seem to regularly get discounts here in the EU. I am kind of curious how it would compare against one of the 12/16-core SKUs though. All of these have 64MB L3 cache, but boost higher and are generally better value than X3Ds for productivity. I'd imagine many of us also use their "gaming" PCs as a workstation, so I wonder if the gaming performance gain is significant enough to justify a 5800X3D vs. 5900x for example. In your original review the average 8-game 1% lows came up to 150 vs. 121 FPS respectively, but the X3D got blown away in all productivity tests. What I don't get is why the 64MB L3 cache on the 5900X/5950X did not seem to make any difference in these tests vs. the non-X3D 5800X (32MB cache). The way I understand it, the 64MB should be shared between both CCDs (as opposed to 32MB per CCD), so even if games don't use multiple cores, shouldn't they still benefit from the larger cache size?
@soulshinobi 2 місяці тому
This kind of video is the most valuable where we really learn something new!
@AVPancientPredator 2 місяці тому
Would be great if you could add some multiplayer titles / competitive games to these charts. Those likely scale much less with cache, since they don't have the huge amount of game world managers, AI NPCs and such that the singleplayer games you test have. (not sure how the rainbow six benchmark compares btw) For testing those, for example cs2 and overwatch2 have the demo/replay system, so you'd only need to play one match, then compare whether the FPS in the replay are similar to the real match and then you can run the tests on the replay = repeatable test. There's obviously still issues like the games not allowing you to watch old replays on a new patch f.e. I mainly find it very hard to judge how relevant results shown in these videos are to people who mostly play multiplayer titles.
@MrDrTheJniac 2 місяці тому
Wendell from Level1Techs thought that 3DVCache is helping overcome memory bandwidth and of latency limitations. I would be curious to see how tweaking the RAM affects the performance delta between the vanilla and X3D parts.
@joejohnson8966 2 місяці тому
6:10 the point of the video. Thank you for making it.
@TheHalo294 2 місяці тому
I like your reasoning, really :)
@kenshirogenjuro873 2 місяці тому
I LOVE the “for science” videos. Extremely educational for clearing up people’s oft-speculative, sometimes wishful musings. Since there’s a decent bit of time ahead before the next gen, perhaps we can revisit these varying cache configurations (especially the X3D variants) with cores disabled down to 4, 2, and even 3 cores! As performance and even stability starts to drop off, how much does cache influence the result for what number of cores? Does a triple- of even dual-core X3D config run some games where a stunted L3 quad-core can’t? Come on Steve! Do it FOR SCIENCE!!!
@thaddeus2447 2 місяці тому
Any chance taking look at x99 xeons ? specifically e5 2696v3 40$ 18 core 36 threads beast from the past which have 45mb of l3 cache, had both 5800x and that xeon system and in most cases in gaming that xeon was very close to zen 3 cpu
@user-lm3fm4cq5i 2 місяці тому
In a span of like 4-5 years i been steadily uprading the basic used PC I bought back then. Had an FX-6100 and a 1060 3GB. Horrible but enough for me at that time to get away from Laptop gaming and over to PC gaming. Went from the FX-6100 (fried a board trying to OC it lmao ) to a FX-8300 ( black edition it was i think ), then R5 2600 with a nice all-core overclock and now a 5600x. You could really feel the jump from FX to Ryzen and then from the 2600 to 5600x. It's incredible how much more performance CPUs, even in the low and middle class, have compared to some years ago. Using the PBO + CO method for the 5600x which works flawlessly. Really nice and easy ( even though i love the normal overclocking via bios ). For my 1080p high refresh gaming it's a nice combination with a RTX 3070 as GPU. Not having watched the video, i am thinking that while it depends on the title,. more Cache might have a bigger impact than Core-Count. Next thing I could see me upgrade to, is a 5600/5800x3D. They offer an additional amazing performance jump and I dont need to change motherboard and stuff, cause legendary AM4. Too bad the 5600x3D is a microcenter only part again. It's a damn nice chip. Should get some new Ram as well. current one is not really impressive at all. xD
@solocamo3654 2 місяці тому
SOTR with the 10900k did show a substantial lead in min fps going with 8 cores, and still improved going to 10 so there are definitely games out there, especially now, that will use the extra cores.
@Mr_Spock512 2 місяці тому
I followed your recommendation (5600X) two years ago and never regretted it as it runs everything very nicely, in fact I built my whole system following your various videos on hardware components. I briefly thought of upgrading to the 5800X3D when it came out but then I realized that I don't really need it for the types of games I play (mostly strategy games @ 60 fps).
@matttiaz7576 2 місяці тому
Agreed. I did the same , always follow the suggestion/raccomandation from Steve and Tim , NEVER let me down !! CPU , GPU , Monitors , I base my purchase on this channel , NEVER regret ANY decision. They are the best IMO.
@saricubra2867 2 місяці тому
An i7-12700K with DDR5 is faster than a 5800X3D, it's similar in gaming perfomance to the 7700X while clocking 800MHz lower. It's a streaming beast as well... If i waited a little bit more, maybe i would have a 7800X3D. The 5800X3D also has an annoying flaw, it's a jittery mess for the clocks, depending on the game i even watched a Ryzen 9 5900X being smoother for the frametime graphs than the 5800X3D for Rust. I don't like CPUs with bad clocks or power limits. I feel the jitter as well for the Windows UI on those CPUs and other things.
@matttiaz7576 2 місяці тому
IMO the clockspeed masterace will be end soon (in main use) just like Intel did back in the days with the Pentium4. To much power/heat to dissipate comparate to performance. I belive ,the big and fast cache, will be the proxime future primary choice for the productor .@bra2867
@abyogairyadfaizin 2 місяці тому
15:26 performance degredation mainly caused by limitation of bandwith storage issue. I have tried installing and updating game in background with SSD 1 and gaming with SSD 2 there is no noticeable frame drop issue so far (keep in mind I am using Core i5 12400 and 2 SATA SSD)
@sinecure45 Місяць тому
For video production and rendering, would the same benefits of a larger cache also be expected?
@MaxGamingLV 2 місяці тому
Hey Hardware Unboxed. I was curious about Intel 12th gen. How does an i5-12600k with 20MB cache beat the Ryzen 5 5600X with 32MB cache in most games? There are still some other factors when talking specifically about gaming performance. I can see that cache improves performance quite a bit on AMD but how can intel cpu’s with lower cache keep up? 12:59
@dangingerich2559 2 місяці тому
I hope for future memory technologies, they work more on reducing latency rather than increasing bandwidth. That would likely have more effect on performance at this point. I really love this analysis. Great job!
@beansnrice321 2 місяці тому
Now I'm curious about cache vs clockspeed.
@kasperdavide5174 2 місяці тому
I like, that you "just wanted to" do this test. Also it is still relevant and interesting.
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