See the problem is that in Grant Morrison's Here Comes Tomorrow, the comic you're referencing, it talks about Jean's pure connection with the Phoenix and the she's the one one who can attain that power, but in X-Men: Hope it's established that Hope can as well and is destined to. Everyone overlooks that for some reason. Not sure why.

I believe they told us this because the original intention at the time was for Hope to be the reincarnation of Jean, but for some reason, that plan was canceled. @@comics_explained

@@avelandra. I would believe that. AFAIK Hope was supposed to be jean reincarnated but they changed it. I’m not gonna swear to that.

@@comics_explained yes but she never did, Jean was in the white hot room as the wpotc watching AVX unfold, therefore Hope never became the wpotc. She was def supposed to be a Jean clone/reincarnation, but thankfully Jean Grey is back. No matter what new comics come by, Jean Grey as the Phoenix is the single most powerful being in Marvel omniverse after Toaa (assuming toaa is still the creator lol)

Dude, literally the phoenix five, until harassed by the Avengers, were doing good things and in control, the Avengers literally made everything on their power to make them freak out and turn villains, and once the damage was done, it was all Cyclops fault. Cyclops is the hero of the story, the rest the villains, they could had helped him transfer slowly the entity to hope and train her, like they did in the end, but not, they had to push the entity possessed people to the brink of insanity, call it "Cyclops villain ark" is wrong, he was the hero of the story. The bad guys won by corrupt him forcibly in the end.@@comics_explained

I thought that too, but maybe it was Phoenix fire?

@@4boydad Both combined! Concussive Phoenix Fire!

Gail Simone says they are fiery heat and not concussive.

They are only concussive when he lowers his output

Kind dumb when you think about it. How can a concussive beam that strong ignore all thermodynamics? Even bullets are hot.

If i remember right, he blamed the phoenix force soon after he was broken out of prison in the following arc as he, Emma and Magneto were on the run. Cyclops said something along the lines of the phoenix made him do it. But lore wise, the phoenix force amplifies what was already present. Including emotions, so... cyke had that resentment and hate building up for Xavier for how many arcs? 🤔

It's probably because he was already a tool.

Not like Cap and Tony wasn't trying to warn them. Did they listen?

Did he feel remorseful or sad when the Phoenix force was removed?

I swear everybody holds Scott accountable but everybody else gets a pass it’s hard being a cyclops fan😂😂😂

Did wolverine die? Thought he’s bones were strong

Apparently, he did. There was an event. Lame way to die, too. But then he got brought back with the ability to create heat in his claws and make them hot pokers.

@@Ishowpounds The kicker with Wolverine is he does die often, he just doesn't stay dead. There was an event where he ends up being encased in adamantium and dying for real (for a while), but healing factors heal and can kind of resuscitate? I mean, Wolverine literally lived through being turned into a skeleton. I just think major healing factors include an innate CPR factor haha.

@@thisisabackupemail2264 There was a story where Nick Fury had his head put in a vacuum and Wolverine went into suspended animation and he still came back to life when exposed to oxygen again. Nick Fury said that his power isn’t healing, his power is simply survival.

​@@gezenewsorc lifes matter

Exactly!

​@@asssassynexactly

Every bad thing that happens in this story is the Avengers' fault. They've never stood up for the X-Men and mutants. They didn't listen to Cyclops at all. The whole "Hosting the Phoenix will drive you mad" thing was disproven by Rachel Summers, who WAS IN THE STORY. The Avengers shattered the Phoenix, then kept attacking when the X-Men were doing good things. They forced the fight. Had they trusted the X-Men, Hope would have still wound up with the Phoenix, with Cyclops watching over her. HE knows what it can do, and would have likely guided her through restoring mutants, then sending/sealing it away. Same ending, much less death and destruction. The Avengers are the villains here. Not the X-Men. Not Cyclops.

@@RabidMetroid exactly

yep this sounds very similar to the jedi council and their blind twisted ways that never seem to achieve anything. and to top it all off most of the dark side users in star wars came from the Jedi side. so clearly Yoda and the "jedi way" was a complete and utter failure lol. seems like the avengers are following in the footsteps of the jedi lol

😂😂😂

😁 they really tried their best to make cyclops a villain. It must've irritated them so much to see people side with him even more.

​@@censorthispuertoricanCycclops is now Donald Trump 😂

​@BOSOMOFABRAHAM77 no. You mean Malcom X

​@@kiknos No Donald Trump.

​@@kiknosclown

Yeah lol

@@GhidorahFan64 He brings a spare to every battle

He is very talented

Captain America too I suppose

The phoenix gave him new clothes. So powerful

Oh c'mon that only made him more badass, they tried so hard to cancelled him but it just made him better 😂

@@theoutlawking9123 how is he a badass here? he's only powerful, but as a character he's insane and a complete loser, the complete opposite of the character most people like

@@EmilianoAC1 Insane? Are you fucking stupid or something, what TF brought you to that conclusion?!

Hopefully he gets done Justice in the x men movies this time instead of just getting cameos

@@EmilianoAC1 It's called character growth, he wasn't the pushover boring ass boyscout that people was accustom to. Plus he wasn't a villain, every fan with Half a damn brain saw that the Avengers were the real bad guys, everything that happened with the Phoenix force was their fault, especially Tony Stark.

Cant understand the double standards scott was protecting his child his race mutants and he is the villain and Logan is hero who can kill anybody even children

The sheer hypocrisy of this particular arc is astounding...The avengers, Wolverine's, Xavier, Stark's....its a hypocrisy fest and the only one who got to be judged was cyclops...And if he didnt get to be so much more popular because of it,.they would have simply cast him as a villain and forget him. Even tried to kill him in Inhumans vs Xmen...

@@ryusuken973 exactly

This is pretty much marvel's cup of tea, just look at the recent Punisher run. Frank got demon powers but only use them to punish the guilty, ONLY the Guilty. But once again the Avengers couldn't stand that someone was doing their job better than them so they went after Frank. And look who Cap had on that little team: Wolverine and Black Widow, one's a former KGB assassin that use to kill for Castro and the Russians, the other has lived for so long he's killed more people that the black plague. Yet both of them lectured Frank, marvel is just full of Fucking hypocrites.

​@@ryusuken973 Jokes on them because that whole arc just made me love him even more. I love Rebel/Revolutionary Cyclops, the best he's ever been!

They were the "police" that shutdown minorities fighting for their right of existing. So yeah, they were villains.

Then you really haven't done your research

@@jamman9569 nah you are the one that never read that shit right, the avengers clearly only think about themselves

@@jamman9569 I don't think it's unwarranted criticism of the Avengers. Captain America goes around representing and standing by the United States, while doing nothing to stop the rampant genocide of mutants by the US. During this Avengers vs X-Men run, yeah the Avengers were the bad guys. They show up to the mutant island apparently interested in peaceful negotiations, and yet they brought a helicarrier stocked with missiles and guns. Then they turn around and criticize Cyclops for "putting the childrens' lives in danger". The Avengers' attempts to stop the Phoenix Force from ever meeting with Hope (and possibly saving the mutant race) is the entire reason it was split up and given to people it shouldn't have gone to in the first place. Maybe the Avengers aren't outright villains to the X-Men, but they are at the most charitable willful bystanders in the constant anti-mutant terrorism and genocide, while also defending and upholding the institutions that inflict that terrorism and genocide in the first place. If I was a mutant, I would absolutely view the Avengers in a negative light.

@goticogordo Nah you never read it to begin with. The Avengers think about the whole world, and prior to this, helped the Xmen numerous times in team ups.

Naughty

Dragon Ball Z abridged? 😮

lol

Ok gooner

He regained it again only to have his neck snapped by God Emperor Doom.

Marvel have to sell toys lol

100% Both costumes were, when he was part of the 5, and as dark phoenix

The Phoenix is everyone's business

It must piss you off something fierce, cyclops got so much more popular after this arc...he came out as not only being right for a lot of Comics readers, but a true hero for the mutant kind a its greatest leader.

​@ryusuken973 It annoys me when people are wrong yes.

mine will now be to be better than @Pestsoutwest could ever hope to be in fiction or reality" XD

You'd like your superpower to be super narcissism? Your fav comic book villian must be Doctor Doom 😂

​@@TheWerttyFilesrofl! Roasted

I hope @@blackmage665 realizes that they will be a mediocre cook and lover if they makes that wish.

To be fair, Doom is a lot of peoples favorite villain @@TheWerttyFiles

naw, Cyclops had turned his back on everyone, he bought into the same rhetoric Magneto had been espousing since his moustache-twirling days in the 60s.

@@pmaestro when was that? Was it after his closest allies (Avengers) invaded the island of Utopia or was it before another human led attack on the remaining 198 mutants?

​@@RemmyCromwellwho's your favorite dictator Injustice Superman Or Cyclops

Cyclops saved his people he is the un song mutant hero

@@The-Endo-SymArmor the dude who killed the least amount of people

Exactly. Also, dumb fanboys took that "no more Phoenix" out of context, and that's why for years we have this Scarlet Witch vs Dark Phoenix comparison, which in reality, Dark Phoenix (any version) destroys Scarlet Witch instantly lol

@@resulnaki There is not a version of Wanda that holds a candle to Dark Phoenix, let alone White Phoenix of the Crown.

@@mrvocal21 exactly. In fact, a full powered Jean Grey would beat Scarlet Witch as well.

​@@resulnakiI'm glad she's back.

@@jasondavis2995 we all are

It doesnt matter...The narrative was made to push Cyclops into the character of a villain...even when he was freaking RIGHT about everything. The avengers hipocrisy, their stupidity and arrogance to say they were doing the right thing aboht something rhey NEVER FACED BEFORE AND KNEW VERY LITTLE ABOUT or had very biased informantion sources (aka ultra jealous and hypocrite Wolverine...) made THEM the villains. But the avengers could no wrong! Their MOVIES were making big bucks and their, nearly unknow until said movies, characters were at all time high in popularity...while the xmen were in a severe decline...then you add that Disney and Marvel wanted to KILL the characters to screw Fox over....its pretty obvious the reasons for the sheer BS of the whole arc. Push forwards the avengers,.screw over the xmen....And when it FAILED? They tried again with the cheap mutants made by space gas from the moon....Just to fail again...

Exactly

Well said but to me Cyke is more like Malcolm X: "By Any Means Necessary," and I love that!

@@theoutlawking9123 He didn't even start that way. He really was peaceful at the start, and didn't even want the power to begin with.

@@ClockworkGearhead Oh I know, he wasn't trying to get the power, it was Tony trying to play God that split the damn thing into five parts and Cyke got one of them. And even after he got it he did nothing but good with it, saving the world, ffs, he and his team literally ended world hunger, but the Avengers just couldn't stand that the X-Men were doing their jobs better than them and kept pushing, well the Phoenix doesn't like to be pushed, that what's turned Scott "Ugly," and Xavier fucking deserve it for threatening to Lobotimize him.

@@theoutlawking9123 Yeah, I really _really_ don't get it. Worse thing is that the Avengers and Xavier both knew Cyclops had a better plan from the get-go with Hope and _tried to kill her._ Even Wolverine was on board with killing her. I really do not get how anyone can't look at this and think how any of them weren't corrupt or egotistical af. By the point Cyclops goes mad, they deserved a Dark Phoenix. I'm not even joking saying that. He was basically at Punisher level by then, and they were acting criminal.

Same! He's probably my favorite Marvel character, I just hated how they treated him after that, both in-universe and out. People were such hypocrites, as if nobody was ever mind controlled or got their mind twisted to kill people in Marvel. Also, they all conveniently forgot what the Dark Phoenix was.

​@@Xainfinenexactly

Uhhhh yea with the Phoenix Force…that’s kind of the point. The Phoenix Force in any of these people would get goated

That was borrowed power

I know. I read the book. He's still the GOAT of Xmen.

@@BlackMarvel25 Yea but nothing on Magneto

​@@od4407 yep.Granted, I always liked Magneto.I also felt that Charles Xavier was holding Cyclops back for awhile now.

Logan tried to kill Hope lmao!

​@@semaj06exactly if they make scott character dark and grey Logansport character is even moore extreme

You're delusional

They even tried to kill her.

Same. As a kid, Wolverine was my fav but for some reason over time I start to like Cyclops more. I still think Gambit and Iceman are badass though.

Because once you realize how one note Wolverine is he gets boring VERY fast. Scott has layers upon layers even down to his mutant gift and the trauma he has from it.

They're both cool but Wolverine got overused and Cyclops got underused because of their relative popularity.

@@Healthy_Toki I was pretty one dimensional and only like wolverine back in the day but in all fairness his writing did get worse over time

@@josephsmiley1 Wolverine hands down has more layers than Scott Summers. What are you talking about?

"Who need argument when you can punch someone at face?"-hulk.

Onhhh

They did all the characters dirty in this comic. Captain America would not have tried to even attack in the first place, and he would have told Wolverine to kick rocks.

​@@ClockworkGearheadyeah.

Xavier have always been duplicitous, you seem to forget that he made teens and children that turned to him for help and guidance to his personal child soldiers.

@@haroldcruz8550 you are right in pointing out that training teenagers to be a paramilitary force with political ideas isn't something that someone sane in his mind would do. All adults with common sense would think that way. However, that's a comic to entertain teenagers, so you can push the laws of realism into the superhero genre only to a certain degree. Actually,a man jumping from roofs in a bat suit being a vigilante with the help of a masked minor would be deemed crazy and outlaw in itself. Same for Bucky and Captain America... Bucky wasn't adult when he was fighting as a soldier. But that's superhero comics logic. The point in this case is another thing though, that is: assuming -based on comics logic- that Xavier was a good guy because of a dream that was needed to avoid the worsening of the world, the writers in the end made him spiral down morally through the years. And now the first Xavier isn't the Xavier we got today.

This!!!

Yup. Yet the writers made everyone hate them and it makes no sense to this day.

​@@ryanbradley9383exactly

Just Marvel's shit writing.

Yeah that annoyed my soul. Cause when hope gets the phoenix they’re like oh wait and she essentially fixes the things cyclops was already doing before they poked the bear

Good question.

Curiosity and interest in human emotion

it loves the drama(intense human emotions)

It doesn't. It just seems that way because its multiversal. To _their perspective_ it seems like the Phoenix is focusing on them. To the Phoenix, it's just waving a finger.

Nah

Not in this here instance, no. But in general? Yes

Nope

It's more like Xavier's way wasn't realistic. Why did they have to alter the House of M reality again? The world was at peace with mutants and vise versa.

😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

The bias of the guy that made the video is quite clear. There were quite obvious nuances to the whole arc and nothing was black/white but a lot of shades of grey. He happily forgets the hypocrisy of certain characters and their screw ups, but keep pushing his narrative that cyclops was going crazy by power and doingbad things when REED FUCKING RICHARDS SAID HIMSELF that the Phoenix 5 were doing GOOD THINGS FOR THE WHOLE OF HUMANITY AND NOT JUST MUTANKIND untill they were pushed into insanity and lost control of the Phoenix...something that was DONE ON THEM BY THE AVENGERS INTERFERENCE...its a pity, unbiased view on the whole history would show both parts had reasons for concern and were right, that working togheter would've been better, but under the people whon had experience in dealing with thr Phoenix...and those people WERENT the avengers...who didnt given a fuck about the mutants unless one of their mutants members screwed up...its a hipocrisy fest anyway you see it.

same same

Sounds like Injustice Superman before he went crazy Remember?

The same people clapping for "Iron Skull" also derided him for Civil War. They straight up lost any cohesion in their morality.

Like really, Sacramento of all places?

That's just bad writing. Regardless of how powerful Thor is he's no match for the Phoenix

@@bmars250 he has been stated on a different comic that he is one of the few beings in the universe that could delete the Phoenix. I think this was stated by the Watcher.

@@cedbar738 like I said it’s bad writing. There’s no consistency in comics these days. How does Thor even defeat the phoenix? I can understand him defeating a phoenix host but even that would not be easy for him and would also depend on the host. You face him off against the full power of the phoenix itself and it won’t even be a fight if the comics are true to their own power hierarchy

​@@bmars250although I agree with you, it's hard to dismiss what was written. Marvel has some awful continuity going on or lack thereof.

@@bmars250 Nope. As Stan lee once said powerscaling doesn't matter. If he wanted the Spiderman to whoop Hulk's ass, he'd write it. Go watch the view. He doesn't give a shit unlike how these powerscalers froth at the mouth over who can beat who's ass.