How Different Are Shimano 105 & Dura-Ace?

День тому

Shimano brought out a new version of its 105 groupset in 2018, but how does it compare to the top of the range Dura-Ace? We’re going to show you, and even attempt a blind riding test! Can we feel the difference when we can’t see it?! Shimano R7000 vs Shimano R9100, let's see if we can tell...
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КОМЕНТАРІ: 1 200

@gcn 5 років тому

Do you think you'd be able to tell the difference? Let us know if you're lucky enough to ride either of these!

@vrushalideshpande3624 5 років тому

No. I use ultegra rim brake di2.

@gregboyd5815 5 років тому

fwiw among the N+1 collection Dura Ace is just that little bit nicer not to mention the tiny weight saving going uphill :) also braking is noticeable better, just otherwise marginal gains, unless you have deeep pockets save your $$

@weitu0 5 років тому

I ride 105 R7000. It's absolutely a good choice of its price.

@jimmythefish 5 років тому

Rode 105 for years. Loved it. Don't think I could tell a difference. I understand some pro teams will ride Ultegra components because of the UCI weight issues. Clearly there's not much in it performance-wise.

@jimbobthe2ndorthe3rd76 5 років тому

I'd be able to tell as soon as I touched the cold metal 105 levers and the warmer DA composite levers!

@UnseenSpirit 4 роки тому

Dura ace is better. I'm on 105 and my girlfriend dumped me for a guy who has dura ace

@shinrips 4 роки тому

Lol I once heard that a girl dumped a guy because her boyfriend had a Chevy 350 small block. The new guy had a 351, I think it was Cleveland. True story.

@solitaryrefinement6787 4 роки тому

Hey man, I know this is kind of awkward, but she asked me to ask you if she can get her Hootie & The Blowfish CD back? She said she knows you only kept it out of spite. No pressure dude, whenever you're ready. We still ridin' Tuesday? 😂

@user-in8lv4nj2y 4 роки тому

优秀

@SinnerSince1962 4 роки тому

She should have waited until you dropped him on the climb before she decided to do that....

@baronvonhoughton 4 роки тому

Proper funny, good work.

@howheels 5 років тому

I'm an amateur racer with a Dura Ace 9100 groupset. I am consistently beaten by my teammates with 105. I can only conclude that I need an even higher level groupset. Shimano please

@icemarkom 5 років тому

It’s such a shame bad components make you suffer so. I hope they make them better. Disgraceful. ;-)

@donmichigan8201 5 років тому

It's all those slow gears

@rafaelrodriguez2931 5 років тому

You just need to train harder!

@therealpinkyskull 5 років тому

Nope you just need higher level legs

@confuzionn4843 5 років тому

mate you need more carbon that's all, replace your legs with carbon, and save some grams.

@nikok.8811 4 роки тому

I drive Ultegra but dream of Dura Ace. My bank clerk told me drive Sora.

@rovitesh510 3 роки тому

Hahaha

@ronaldputra1177 3 роки тому

Yoo dudee 😩😁😂😂

@zacharycat603 3 роки тому

Have used both and unless you are are very competitive in races there isn't enough difference to justify the extra cost IMHO. Or are friends with someone who can get it at dealer's cost.

@nicolasribes8394 3 роки тому

I havé got thé same problème

@greenkawasemi 3 роки тому

I bursted out laughing when I understood the meaning

@fuzzymuppet1990 5 років тому

That time that you get dropped by a guy riding a 35 lb single speed cruiser bike that's all rusted out with a baby seat in the back and 10 lbs of air pressure in his tires, while he's smoking a cigarette on a hill.. Puts things into perspective real quick lol

@1Patient 5 років тому

Quit smoking those Ciggs and Smoke what Real Single Speeders Smoke, Weed ;-)

@deusexaethera 5 років тому

What you described was entirely plausible...except for the rusty chain and flat tires. Those two simple maintenance oversights will waste _so much_ energy that even a biking noob on a well-maintained bike could outpace a pro on a rusty bike. ...on flat ground, anyway. Uphill, the pro on the rusty bike would win, but they would be hating life by the time they got to the top of the hill.

@deusexaethera 5 років тому

@@1Patient: Weed smoke is still smoke, brah. Cigarette smoke might be _extra_ bad for your lungs, but weed smoke is bad for your lungs too. There is no such thing as smoke that _isn't_ bad for your lungs.

@ItsDaJax 5 років тому

Nix the rust, baby seat, flat tires, and you have me; dropping people on my built Cranbrook.

@bengrad5478 4 роки тому

I regularly smoke roadies - meanwhile I'm on a fully loaded touring bicycle using flat pedals and wearing sandals. In my experience roadies spend way too much time coasting.

@andyhaochizhang 3 роки тому

Alternative title: Man falls in love with his rear derailleur.

@palicar 5 років тому

105 for the people.

@Northwindbreeze 5 років тому

Exactly, dura - ace for the real pros. Invest your money on wheels for example.

@daicha0624 5 років тому

NorthWind I think so too. 105 is good balance between price and ability. And 105user can invest wheels.

@solitaryrefinement6787 5 років тому

@@Northwindbreeze OR...get Dura Ace AND great wheels. 👍

@Northwindbreeze 5 років тому

@@solitaryrefinement6787 we gotta agree, if money allows, invest in something that gives you a especial feeling, but if money isn't available as much as many wish, calculate the pro and cons and get your prize. You, if you can.... Great for you man! Have a great buy!

@solitaryrefinement6787 5 років тому

@@Northwindbreeze Yep. I never saw purchasing decisions as an either/or mandate. You get what you can now, then get what you can later as funds allow. I never saw where in the "rule book" it says that you can only buy a flagship groupset or an upgrade wheelset. I don't know why if someone buys one, for the rest of their lives, they can't buy the other! LOL As if they are only going to get that little expenditure once in their lives! 😆

@jirdesteva 5 років тому

The price difference for the average daily rider is probably the most important thing, I believe the best performance gain would come from loosing some of my personal weight. One less pizza slice a week should do it.

@sln9360 4 роки тому

This is my comment as well, even being in good shape, albeit not the pro-cycling body type, I weight in at 190 LBS, if I stopped working out I might be able to drop to 180, maybe. Is the 1 lbs (1/2 Kilo) really going to make a difference on a 190 lbs rider. I would say not in the slightest, even in hill climbs.

@9034833838 4 роки тому

Haven't had a pizza since march. LEt's see how far this train rides

@jshepard5840 5 років тому

This all goes back to the old saying "don't buy upgrades, ride up grades". For the difference in cost, you could literally buy another bike (gravel, cross, mountain) and have twice the fun.

@livibam 5 років тому

Why pick, do both

@jeffk464 5 років тому

much cheaper to take 400 grams off your gut.

@bishplis7226 5 років тому

take a piss before you ride, saves you a a whole wheelset in weight @@jeffk464

@andrewnorris5415 5 років тому

@@livibam Well, you could, but vast majority of people would be working all hours to get that and have no free time! That's why! It takes a lot more man hours to make a Dura-ace group set - and it also uses some rare materials that are harder to find. Some richer people (not saying you) - don't seem to appreciate money.

@livibam 5 років тому

@@andrewnorris5415 well I have dura ace on 2 bikes and sram force 1x on another. I work hard and I absaloutley appreciate where money comes from.

@ClemensAlive 4 роки тому

Imagine all these guys spending thousands of Euros on "Extra light weight" components for an 1 or 2 kg advantage. but then just have 10kg too much resting on their hips... Dont get me wrong - I definetely understand the motivation behind it. We're all men... ^^ But until I'm not super lean and highly competetive - its way easier to just lose some weight.

@HAFIZzainalHZ 3 роки тому

Or just have a massive dump in the morning before the ride. 😂

@mikehaines1403 3 роки тому

@@HAFIZzainalHZ just cut the crap

@HAFIZzainalHZ 3 роки тому

@@mikehaines1403 r u shittin me? 😂

@christiandawson5031 3 роки тому

So true

@metallusmelandril7380 3 роки тому

And cheaper and more healthy

@Gallyga 4 роки тому

The weight saving I could make off my belly, in cycling manufacturing terms, would normally cost me about £6,000.

@asisqueezylovediary6474 2 роки тому

Yes I think belly liposuction cost less lol

@BrateTebra123 2 роки тому

It is not the same

@simonrajh 2 роки тому

@@BrateTebra123 Its even better. If the rider gets rid of the fat then weight distribution is better and gravity center is lower

@BrateTebra123 2 роки тому

@@simonrajh No, you become lighter and less stronger. Lighter rider could not press on the pedals as hard and also it is more beneficial to reduce bike weight by 1kg then lose 1kg of fat.

@simonrajh 2 роки тому

@@BrateTebra123 If you burn 1kg of _fat_ (fat, not weight) then this shouldnt have effect on muscle weight/function (in ideal world).

@MatthewWalker_93_ 5 років тому

the best video yet! After 6 years of riding ultegra, i bought a pair of 105 sti's and zingo... they're great. zero difference. saved 200 bucks.

@rollinrat4850 5 років тому

As a mechanic, old school retro grouch, and avid rider of 45 years, 105 are the best bang for the buck and work just fine. The weight probably wont make a big difference to the average user. If anything, splurge on shifters, hubs and wheels. That being said, if you value quality, taking the best care of your kit and long lasting durability , the higher end components use better bearings, materials and are manufactured to closer more exacting tolerances. That means they last longer and are sometimes easier to maintain. Stay with steel cassettes. I have 25 year old Chris King hubs with the original bearings. I have 40 year old Campy Record hubs still ridden daily on my fixed gear commuter, still smooth as new. I still have a Dura Ace 7400 7 speed bike that works practically as well as it did in the 80s. its the fastest most solid shifting bike Ive owned, Due to the short cables and 6” of housing! I still regularly ride 1st and 2nd generation XTR and Saint that work great and has been used really hard on mtn and ‘cross bikes. XTR are the best cantis ever made! Shifters still working perfect! I see no reason to replace any of this stuff. It performs in a completely satisfactory manner. I get to test, wrench on and demo all the new drool worthy bikes and kit, lots of nice stuff but I see no practical advantages to replace any of my old stuff. I still ride hard at 57 and Im not too much slower!!

@treygray2817 4 роки тому

I was told that 9 speed is better because the chain is thicker. Any truth to that?

@rollinrat4850 4 роки тому

Seymour Gray Maybe the chain is a little stronger under heavy loads during gear shifts, but it wouldn't make a difference with a properly installed chain. Much less for someone who knows how to shift. Chains always break at their weakest point, which means either someone didn't connect it proplerly and or theyre forcing shifts. 7, 8, 9 speed are really easy to tune and they dont require ultra precision. I use Shimano XT or XTR 8, 9 or 10 speed drivetrains now. Even on my 'cross & touring bike's with friction shifters. Old XT was made in Japan. It was definitely better quality than the newer versions produced elsewhere. Sram makes the entry level 12 Speed SX Eagle drivetrain and its so Cheap and imprecise it hard to get it shift well across the entire cassette. Never buy Sram. Just isn't worth the money.

@treygray2817 4 роки тому

@@rollinrat4850 I have 9-speed Ultegra 6500 on one bike... It shifts better than my 11-speed Campagnolo Potenza! I'm probably building my next bike with 9-speed Sora R3000. Never ridden it but heard it's great. 9-speed chains and cassettes are absurdly cheap and I can use my old wheelsets that aren't 11-speed compatible.

@treygray2817 4 роки тому

@@rollinrat4850 Hahaha about SRAM... I knew an old guy who was phenomenally knowledgeable about cycling. He despised SRAM!

@MrChippinator 3 роки тому

I just “settled” for a Tiagra cause I couldn’t get the 105 version (COVID problems), honestly that might be the new best value groupset. It’s phenomenal value for money.

@TriRussell1 5 років тому

I would like to see a comparison between 105 and Ultegra since I’m definitely not a pro so I will never be buying Dura-Ace.

@HeatherSpoonheim 3 роки тому

Thanks for this - you've convinced me that I made a shrewd choice in going for 105. I'm not interested in electronic shifting, not worried about a few hundred grams - I have kilos to shed from my own frame before worrying about my bike frame - so given the price point, 105 is exactly what I should be riding.

@MRDTBOSS 3 роки тому

I feel the same!

@oldmate86 3 роки тому

This is such a good point. How many riders out there go for the lightest/most expensive gear without first looking to their own physical weight

@poeryudo Рік тому

Exactly

@chrism5433 5 місяців тому

Me too .cheers 🍺

@Gryffes 5 років тому

How about a generation comparison? 5800 vs 8000. 8000 vs 9000 , 9000 vs 9100 etc.

@gcn 5 років тому

That's a corking idea!

@milanbabic92 5 років тому

@@gcn Maybe but that's too much work for a minuscule differences.

@francislai5270 5 років тому

I think you mean 5800 vs 7000, 6800 vs 8000, 9000 vs 9100?

@jonnelsonjdn 5 років тому

I had 105 5700 and it shifted quite poorly. My oldest road bike with Sora 3300 from 2003 shifted more reliably. With their refinements in 5800 and 7000 I would find comparing those generations to 5700 very interesting. Like what mechanical improvements in just a few years have made it so much better that now performance really is on par with Dura-Ace?

@francislai5270 5 років тому

@@jonnelsonjdn I agree, riding 5700, 6700 and 7900 10 spds vs beyond generations had noticeable differences. I would even say the previous gen 5600s shifted even better than 5700 gen. I think mainly This was because the shifting before was external from the handlebar and housing were exposed in the front. Cleaner routes, simpler, better leverage, less friction. 5700 gen was the first gen that shoved cables inside handlebar tape and shifter grip area diameter was massive. It took more force to shift IMO, especially when the cables got dirty internally, my bike was literally almost stuck to shift. 5800 gen IMO was a massive improvement with the smooth shifting as smooth as 5600 gen, yet shoved in handlebar. To tackle front shift friction they came up with long arm leverage front derailleur and the lever size shrunk significantly. Over time smoothness didn't deteriorate as well. 11 SPD too. They did sorcery with the lever design in here. 7000 has all of the above but lever size shrunk even more. Crank stiffness per weight improved, rear derailleur comes stock with semi long cage to house up to 30t cassette. And front derailleur had complete redesign (although harder to route) had easy leverage and a integrated cable tension option on the mech. This was the gen that 105 has the least difference with DA. There is not a better time to get 105, it's pretty darn sweet.

@404nobrakes 5 років тому

5:20 The "Shadow plus" designation applies to derailleurs that have clutches (ie Ultegra RX and mountain groups). The road derailleurs are just "shadow".

@peterhansen1106 5 років тому

To quote Lance Armstrong: "It's Not About the Bike" ...it's about the drugs!

@9034833838 5 років тому

Gonna start injecting EPO for my daily commute from the next week on. Thanks

@deusexaethera 5 років тому

Yeah yeah, everyone else was doping too, Lance only got busted because he was _also_ the best racer, and thus he was subject to the most scrutiny. I mean, he was so good he actually got tired of winning and started trying to build a complete collection of medals.

@archiezulueta 5 років тому

No matter how drugged you are, if you don't have it, you're nothing. Everyone at that time is juiced. So playing field is level. They just zeroed in on Lance.

@recyclespinning9839 4 роки тому

@@deusexaethera I think his body just reacted best to drugs. Not the best athlete or rider. Just the best after drugs , which seems to be the trend nowadays. Very sad..almost every sport is tainted. 😔🙄

@deusexaethera 4 роки тому

@@recyclespinning9839: Drugs can't make you perform well if you don't also push yourself as hard as you can. People think drugs make difficult things easy, but drugs only increase the maximum difficulty your body can ensure.

@richym2020 5 років тому

There's GCN España, soon they'll be GCN Italia. I think there's clearly an opening for a spin off series, 50 shades of GCN.

@williamkeys5701 5 років тому

I have 105 and Ultegra and can honestly say that I feel no difference in the quality of shifting. This result was not a surprise to me. Good on Shimano for giving you carte blanche on this video.

@michaeljbrennan3728 5 років тому

William Keys I saw a interview with a Shimano exec in their R and D department. He said they want to maintain the same level of performance across their group set line. The only differences are the higher the group set the better the materials used in manufacturing, the lower the weight, which leads to higher cost. He said the average cyclist most likely could not tell the difference in performance between Dura Ace and the 105 group sets. The only difference I have found is the latest group sets have a shorter shifter throw. I have a Dura Ace set on my bike from 2004. And Ultegra on my gravel bike (2017 Cannondale Slate). The newer group set has a much shorter shifter throw.

@trekimpossible2850 5 років тому

I have 105(5800, including crankset) and Ultegra(6800, including crankset) too, and average 100 miles/week. In terms of performance, I don't feel the difference. In stead, I have more PRs with 105 on climbing(> 6%) because of its compact chain rings. Ultegra does feel better in shifting, but very marginal.

@karl8805 5 років тому

105 set up perfectly like mine Vs my ultegra set up perfectly like mine 105 is way off being as crisp Ultegra is just next level in comparison

@edo153 2 роки тому

I agree and I have mechanical 105 and electric Di2 ultegra. The Ultegra shifts slightly smoother and slightly faster but I’m talking very thin margin. Not worth the price imo

@simonknowles4267 5 років тому

Nice job guys. ( hoping this makes the comments section of the next GCN show)

@cup_and_cone 5 років тому

You can't do this with SRAM Red and SRAM Rival... Thanks for making 'the working man's groupset' so awesome Shimano!

@jamesporter5630 5 років тому

Auto rolled into this episode. You made, what I thought might be, a dry subject entertaining. And I learned quite a bit. Damn. Have you ever considered an episode explaining...retirement investing? I’ve eff’d that up pretty good. Maybe an Ollie/Si tutorial on compound interest?

@pibba 5 років тому

Brilliant! Gotta say I'm still running 105 on my '80's Colnago and have never been disappointed. Thanks to Si for keeping it in his nickers!

@petinka721 5 років тому

Great show again GCN! I can not say if I would feel any difference between them since I only ridden with Sora and even hot had opportunity compere with Tiagra.

@Phaidrus 5 років тому

GCN's Dynamic Duo! Nice one, guys!

@TheJackKWhitehouse 5 років тому

Ollie always looks so happy. Brightens my day 😎

@rigger8722 3 роки тому

Just ordered a Triban RC520 Gravel. Glad it's got the 105 shifters and derailleurs. Looking forward to getting in the saddle again after too many years off it. Getting far too podgy in my middle age. Last proper bike was a Dyna-Tech 400, also with Shimano mid-range groupset.

@blaireasdon 3 роки тому

Between Si's attraction to rear derailleurs and Ollie feeling the girth, this was something else!

@EagleKeeper86 5 років тому

Makes me feel better about my 105 group. I honestly couldn’t imagine shifting getting much better, and now I see that it really doesn’t.

@40datboysha 5 років тому

I am a Dura Ace fan, but that 105 is pretty sweet looking.

@jvmccracken 5 років тому

5 years with Shimano 105 on my Trek Domane including cross USA: Perfect.

@markoneal9677 5 років тому

My experience on several bikes has been that the 105 rear derailleur doesn't hold it's shifting performance over time nearly as well as Ultegra or DA. My recent experiment was on the 2018 gravel bike. Came with the 105 groupset. Shifted terrible. Replaced the rear derailleur with an Ultegra RX-800 and now it shifts perfect

@gabkoost 5 років тому

You can either spend 1000+ USD on a Dura-Ace groupset or save 20$ every week on one pizza and 2 beers less. Either way, you'll save those 400 grams and still end up dropped by that 70yo dude who rode his old bike his entire life to commute 20k back and forth. Let's be real. The real upgrade here are the looks and the good feeling accomplishment that only ostentation will give you. Get it if money isn't a issue for you or if you are really competitive and 1 minute gain on a 50k ride is that important.

@briantruck2284 2 роки тому

Exactly

@tsc4842 2 роки тому

not everybody is fat.

@gabkoost 2 роки тому

@@tsc4842 If you are not a competitive rider you don't need Dura-Ace. In fact, you actually don't need anything over 105. For people with budgets it's much more important to invest on decent wheels and tires than on a groupset slightl lightery but that will give you literally 0 performance gains. Wheels and tires, on the other hand. will provide MASSIVE gains. Performance gains trump by far weight gains. Example: - My first decent road bike was a Decathlon Triban. As i have a budget to manage myself around, i could either upgrade the groupset or the wheels and tires. Had i spent money on the groupset i would have gained a few hundred grams that would have helped me in virtually nothing. Instead, i chose contract points and it took off MINUTES from my routes.

@narcolonarcolo 5 років тому

If you're not too concerned with bling factor or you're not racing at a super high level 105 is all the group set you'll ever need. It can't be beat in terms of value. I'd say dura Ace is not better, it is nicer.

@albr4 5 років тому

the main reason is because it's lighter. I've built my own cheap and lightweight groupset with sram force 22 shifters, derailleurs, a sram red 22 crankset and casette. These parts weigh 1,215 grams. Just buy the cheaper groupset and look to see if there's a big gap in weight on a certain component (crankset) then just swap that part out. This way you get both value and performance.

@CanIHasThisName 5 років тому

@@albr4 The problem is that unless you're into stuff like TT, weight is so greatly overrated parameter. You're shaving off a fragment of a second every hour. And if you're not racing at all, it's negligible.

@HaldunSay 5 років тому

It is just a lovely episode 🤣🤣🤣 May the force be with you then 💪🏻

@antonXPS 5 років тому

great duo work!

@sandgroper1970 5 років тому

When I first got into road cycling as an adult, I tried several bikes with shimano 105, then I tried one with Ultegra ( all mechanical ), Ended up buying the bike with Ultegra ( felt the shifting was better) after some years I got a new bike and got mechanical Dura Ace ( I felt things were a step up again from ultegra - This was the year when Shimano first offered electronic Dura Ace). I now have a bike with Ultegra Di2 and the shifting is fantastic and the braking is great ( rim brakes only). If I was to get another bike with Shimano gears I would spec it with Ultegra Di2.

@lexvandewal8856 5 років тому

I had a bike with sora and that was really crap and with buying a new bike i had the luck that i could take a few for a ride and the ultegra is in my opion also better shifting than 105 and now i have a ultegra 105 mix drivetrain 105 rest ultregra amazing shifting and cheap to replace

@S1zx6r 5 років тому

I've got 105 5800 rim brake at the moment and although I've tried DI2, the performance isn't worth the extra outlay to me. New bike will have new 105 hydro, but I have specced the DA rotors because the black centre looks so much better!!

@bishplis7226 5 років тому

well duh, how COULD it be better?

@solitaryrefinement6787 5 років тому

If you stick with rim brakes, go with SRAM Force. They come with stock SwissStop pads and you're getting Ultegra-level braking performance for only $100 while knocking 100g off your bike. And they stop great. Nice positive feeling. The only reason is that I passed on disc brakes is because I don't ride in the rain really which is where discs really beat rim brakes.

@nikolajkotz5269 5 років тому

Love these videos, thanks!

@awesomexistence 5 років тому

Could you follow up on this comparison with comparing the chainring-chain-cassette metal types/treatments concerning durability please.

@M47H383R7 5 років тому

The secret, drop an Ultegra cassette, chain and cables on 105 everything else and enjoy.

@beaterbikechannel2538 3 роки тому

That's exactly what I did, I saw how a 105 cassette will dig into an aluminium freehub. I Ultegra'd my Hope Mono RS hub straight away before I even built my bike up.

@rami1985 3 роки тому

Thanks for the tip

@richardhudson4649 5 років тому

My road bike is 105. And I can't imagine ever needing more than 105. When I upgrade my road bike, it will be to a new 105 7000 groupset bike. My triathlon bike is 105, but I am planning to upgrade to a bike with Ultegra Di2 simply so I can have satellite shifters on the horns. I can't imagine ever needing Dura Ace. The easiest way for me to lose ~500g is to not go for nachos as often.

@asdfasdf-hk2gi 5 років тому

ultegra carbon STI grips are a super nice upgrade. They are a lot warmer when it is cold outside

@markstengel7680 4 роки тому

Hi Guys, Started looking for new road bike. You answered my question re: 105 vs Dura Ace systems. I remember 105s were tops. Bye Guys & Enjoyed Presentation 🚲👍

@tbear4291 5 років тому

Great addition of Olli to GCN. JUST like 105 upgraded to Dura Ace!

@JBroms64 5 років тому

I would honestly love to see GCN's perspective on the entry level groupsets. I put thousands of miles on my Claris bike before upgrading to the new 105, and I thought Claris held up surprisingly well compared to the 105.

@bonzobanana1 5 років тому

I think Claris is all most cyclists need or at least casual cyclists. Obviously if your a competitive cyclist then it may be worth going higher but the difference in speed is ridiculously small but the difference in cost is huge. Tourney is terrible but Claris is a huge jump up from that. The difference in weight is clearly unimportant if you are carrying extra weight yourself. Why worry about 500g on the bike if you weigh 15kg more than your ideal weight. I'd say Claris is the groupset for the people not 105.

@ForTsz 5 років тому

Claris can be the groupset for people if you live in a flat terrian. But once you live in a mountain terrian you will unterstand why more sp do effert your ride. 8sp and 11sp in 11-28 is really different when you can climb more effortlessly in right cadence with 11sp

@CanIHasThisName 5 років тому

@@ForTsz You do realise that Claris supports 11-34 cassettes, right?

@J4J0 5 років тому

11sp means having 11 rings in the back, not just having an 11 tooth ring.

@CanIHasThisName 5 років тому

@@J4J0 How stupid do you think I am? I'm talking about range.

@Outsideville 5 років тому

The tricky part comes in that the groupset is often set with other options on a bike build. It's much more expensive to buy a frame and build up a bike, so you go with the overall objective. For instance, I wanted hydraulic discs, not cable, and that meant that I would get Ultegra rather than 105. I really have no need for Ultegra since I don't have Di2. I actually prefer SRAM double tap, but wasn't an option. I assume many folks in the mid-range market end up following a similar decision tree.

@jamestillotson8307 3 роки тому

Thank you so much have watch many GCN clip while deciding which new bike to get. Love these guys and thank you for saving me £700

@fh5102 3 роки тому

0:09 "But, how does it compäääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääh"

@SergioCristancho 5 років тому

Nice Video, feel more tech than ad. I can see maybe there is a purpose in each group set... what about and endurance test how many km or miles can develop each before starting to develop 'failure,' or show us performance in different terrain... just saying maybe 105 can be smooth on some climbs and terrain and durace well has the flats... maybe, maybe it won't ?

@tomast9034 5 років тому

air resistance is our biggest enemy :D have the 105 set for 5? years now im happy with it...

@HeatherSpoonheim 4 роки тому

I plan on buying a Cannondale 105 Topstone this winter. The 105 gearing would have been well beyond my capabilities when I started this year but should provide a great workout for me next year with room to advance for several seasons. For the amount that I'll be paying, I sure hope I get several years out of that bike.

@andrewdoig4034 5 років тому

A blind test of 105 vs ultegra vs dura ace would have been great but I appreciate complicated. From the previous generation I concluded ultegra was the best value for money groupset for a fit amateur cyclist. 105 components wore out too quick, dura ace is strong but expensive. I found ultegra components to cost little more than 105 and much less than dura ace. Suited me.

@syresynth5778 5 років тому

Pls do a Deore XT vs XTR comparison in this channel or on GMBN pls!

@nunocosta1060 5 років тому

The two channels could join for that test. Mtb vs road indoors

@moi7748 5 років тому

I have Deore XT on my BMC hybrid and I honestly cannot fault it. I really don't think any upgrade would be worth it.

@scottc9630 3 роки тому

Andrew James I love it when people say, xtr shifts smoother than XT. My thoughts are; you’re going up or down a bumpy ass trail and you are able to discern the smoothness between the two?

@TabletopUpgrades 4 роки тому

Got to say the editing is spot on. Just as I was thinking this vs weight thing is getting boring....you swapped to the immediate side by side style. Good skills team!

@josephtan5037 4 роки тому

Thank you very much for this comparison

@nathanmarineau3993 3 роки тому

I've got 105 on my Canyon Endurace AL and I love it. I don't compete, I just love to ride hard. And, you know... budget. Great bike too, by the way.

@tomahoks 3 роки тому

Nathan Marineau I just got me a 2019 Canyon Roadlite AL 7.0 Love it.

@QuickQuips 5 років тому

Sora and up are quite solid for everyday use. Though iirc 105 and Ultrega are more durable than DA. I'm surprised Shimano didn't send identical components.

@darinsteele7091 5 років тому

I have the 2014 version of Sora and it seems pretty good.

@glennoc8585 5 років тому

Well the cassette might be too close un weight ifvthey sent two cassettes at 11-28

@indorock 5 років тому

Indeed DA sacrifices durability for performance and lightness. If you want durable and high performance, Ultegra is the best choice. Having said that, my daily commuter has Sora and it's still very very capable!

@minuteman4199 5 років тому

I have Sora on my cross bike and 105 on my road bike. I got a really good deal on the cross bike and figured I would upgrade to 105, but I have been perfectly happy with the performance.

@lexvandewal8856 5 років тому

Sora is trash if you ride longer distances short distance is kinda okay

@jeffr119 5 років тому

This past summer (2018) I ordered a full R7000 105 component kit to upgrade a 2002 road bike. I got the entire groupset except for the crankset/chainrings at the end of June. Shimano kept pushing back the release date for the cranksets (in the US) so in mid Sept I ordered a Campagnolo Centaur crankset + bottom bracket so I could get my bike upgraded. This new generation 105 groupset is very good, but I do have one complaint about this set. When Shimano announced this new generation 105 groupset they claimed that it was just as good as Ultegra, but with a slight weight penalty. I have a different road bike that is equipped with an R8000 Ultegra groupset and the new 105 set does fall short of the Ultegra in one area: the front derailleur. The Ultegra has half-shifting which comes into play when you have large chain angles, but the new 105 front derailleur does not have the half-shifting capability. So for anyone who is considering upgrading an older road bike with a new 2x11 R7000 105 groupset I would suggest that you might want to purchase an Ultegra front derailleur and use that over the 105.

@theylivewesee1674 5 років тому

I wish you guys review sora r-3000 when it first came on the market, the groupset looks fantastic even better then current tiagra and it's perfect budget groupset for recreational riders

@jacksquat2067 5 років тому

0:28 Perfect placement and angle. Thought Si had Mickey Mouse ears on for a second. 🤣

@arthurbown-mazzoni 5 років тому

Can you do a Campag Super Record vs Campag Record next?

@IronAngel8775 4 роки тому

Great information. Can you guys make a video listening the difference type of road bike from the worst to the greatest and what's different about them also can you include the name of the bikes.? Also is bike set height important when you're riding?

@aldrinclementina4297 3 роки тому

Hi there Olli and Simon. I know this is an old video. But I have to share this with you guys. I have a Bianchi 928L with 7800 Dura-Ace components. And they are still kicking. I invested once and never had a problem with them. The left shifter malfunctioned once but it was because of the cable. The cable was replaced and the lever serviced.. and it's still working. I thinks for the next bike I will go for the Ultegra Di2 with disc brakes. Thanks for the video.

@johnnyloco11 5 років тому

Did you mention the RRP difference? That's kind of a key part in deciding on a groupset...

@Bad_Science_Channel 5 років тому

John Matthews the prices vary a lot, but dura ace is roughly 3x the price

@Travelakad 5 років тому

I just started watching the video. Already clicked the like icon just for the Star Wars reference. Well done lads! Well done!

@chrischupp9760 5 років тому

Great comparison. The Dura Ace crank does look sooooo nice

@Stratulax 3 роки тому

I've never ridden Dura Ace, but when I purchased my Bianchi Aria (with 105 groupset), I had the opportunity to ride a Bianchi Sprint (with the Ultegra groupset) and was amazed at the difference in shifting performance between the two. Therefore, I can only imagine that the difference between this two groupsets would be fairly pronounced, where as the differences between Ultegra and Dura Ace might be allot harder to determine. Either way, nice comparisson, an thanks for the information/entertainment. Need to go for a ride with that wig on! Maybe on October 31st? LOL!!!

@zacharycat 4 роки тому

My impression was that 105 = weekend rider, Ultegra = more serious everyday rider, Dura-ace = hard core racer or someone with deep pockets.

@DSRT888 4 роки тому

I ride every day on Claris R2400 8 speed. Where muh dura ace.

@fluffy13bondjames92 4 роки тому

DSR_T-888 just don’t be poor

@Digi20 5 років тому

I would say get a tiagra or 105 instead of ultegra and buy yourself some nice wheels for the difference. or a whole other bike when considering the price difference to dura-ace.

@krnone8057 5 років тому

105, as it is 11 speed and compatible with higher groups. Tiagra is compatible only with itself.

@Digi20 5 років тому

@@krnone8057 depends if you plan to upgrade or not.

@CanIHasThisName 5 років тому

@@krnone8057 Actually, current Tiagra 4700 is compatible with 11 speed derailleurs (albeit only as a 10 speed system), so you can run Ultegra RX derailleur.

@thelawnet 5 років тому

Tiagra is old, don't buy it now. Maybe new Tiagra (next year) will be a good buy. Now not so much.

@krnone8057 5 років тому

@@Digi20 Sure, but it's always better to have options.

@atsright4293 5 років тому

This video is great. You guys are informative and entertaining. You’ve also made me feel better about being a lumpy rider forever stuck in the mid level reaches of cycling componentry. Putting Durace on my bike would be like putting a dress on a pig.

@bdelmotte 4 роки тому

Great review, so funny and professional 😀

@richym2020 5 років тому

What about non series 2300. Had this on an older bike. Still going strong.

@cliffordromina3527 5 років тому

Nice one calling non series. I just call them generics..

@gehrBehr1 5 років тому

Test them in one years time after a race season and you'll feel a bigger difference!

@ryantan9447 5 років тому

Thk for the guide

@markclements1509 5 років тому

I used to ride 9 speed Dura-Ace on my GT and then moved to 10 speed 105 on my Wilier and I must say I preferred the 9 speed, better shifting and brakes. I haven't tried the new-ish 11 speed as I have jumped ship to Campagnolo

@simonstucki 5 років тому

you are really doing an awesome job considering the whole being sponsored by manufacturers situation, I'm sure that is not always easy. Of course I would prefer if you weren't sponsored at all but there's a lot of things I would prefer that are not going to happen either (like paying no rent, getting a new free bike every month and so on). everyone has got to eat...

@Bad_Science_Channel 5 років тому

simon stucki thanks mate! 👍🏼

@CanIHasThisName 5 років тому

This video being sponsored means that Shimano gave or lent them the groupsets. It's normal practise - a brand gives you a product and wants you to make a video about it. Of course, in that case you're legally obligated to admit it's sponsored content. If you watch some tech channels, you may notice that lots of these sponsored videos are entertaining and ton of fun, mainly because the brand typically just wants to have a video done about the product but doesn't care what you do with it. It's a win for everyone. The viewer gets to see something interesting, the creator gets free stuff and makes content about it that will earn him money, and the brand will get publicity among viewers who actually are interested in it. As for this video, I think that Shimano wants to support the sales of their mid-range and lower end components, especially since the upgrades they've done to the very lowest groupsets. They're basically reassuring people that by buying the cheaper things, they're not really getting a sub-par riding experience.

@HughDWallace 5 років тому

Love my 10 speed Tiagra!

@MrChippinator 3 роки тому

I just bought a Tiagra Trek Émonda ALR because 105 wasn’t available due to COVID supply issues. Honestly, it’s amazing! Trickle down tech has made spending more money nonsense. I took the 500-1000 I have saved and put it into new kit.

@HughDWallace 3 роки тому

@@MrChippinator I was riding my 9 speed Sora today. Smooth as silk. Lovely group set.

@MrChippinator 3 роки тому

@@HughDWallace A guy from my LBS told me that the Tiagra is basically the Ultegra from 10 years ago. Basically that other than weight there’s nothing between Tiagra and up.

@HughDWallace 3 роки тому

@@MrChippinator I'd be interested in a 105 groupset or GRX but anything above that is just playing with numbers.

@MrChippinator 3 роки тому

@@HughDWallace Yeah and the higher you go the more expensive the parts. Eventually the returns are diminishing.

@twertygo 4 роки тому

I want to see this for Sram Rival/Red and Campagnolo's equivalent to those!

@chickenpoodle 5 років тому

after seeing all these recent comparisons, its pretty hard to pitch a sale the higher end group sets. i'm 99% sure that the vast majority of riders should be picking based on availability of the cassette rather than the rest of the group set however. since most of us will REALLY only notice a 11-28 vs 11-32 or 11-34. coupled with obviously the compact or subcompact rings up front depending on needs. don't think most riders would push the groupset far enough to notice the performance differences in the overall weight, the braking, or even the even more minor differences... I've been running 6800 ultegra on my allez for the last 4 years now and I've been more than happy with it's performance. I've always played with the idea of going electronic, but just never felt the need for it. if I were ever to change group sets, it'd come down to mechanical vs electronic. if it were mechanical, i'd probably grab a 105 and put the $ savings elsewhere (such as swapping tires/chains more often, instead of compromising for cost or trying to push for longevity.., etc). if I went electronic, i'd obviously go for ultegra again.

@lisapet160 5 років тому

Is Ollie a Benny Hill's relative? The Tiagra/105 is my choice: I am riding for myself, not for mechanics, photo-finish and thiefs at coffee brake and mid-ride meal spots.

@luismedeiros7139 5 років тому

This is the only place where trickle down economics actually works.

@synsynsy 5 років тому

Ha ha... excelent point!! Riding a bike is like living in utopia. I am greatful. :)

@osimnod 5 років тому

Yeah, because it certainly doesn't apply to racing car technology trickling down to passenger cars or in computer technology where SSD drives are only available in high-end desktops rather than mid-level laptops or ... name nearly any other industry where manufacturers compete to gain market share by besting their competitors through improved value. / sarc. You might want to define "trickle down economics" so everyone knows what you mean and can be accountable.

@deusexaethera 5 років тому

You're right! Trickle-down economics is much more effective when you're the one paying for it! It doesn't work so well when you're expecting other people to pay for it. Seriously though, this is trickle-down _engineering,_ not trickle-down _economics._

@austinshoupe1506 4 роки тому

@@deusexaethera correct on engineering and economics. Not sure what the hell the rest of your comment is saying. Trickle down economics has been a big drag on the US economy for almost everyone.

@deusexaethera 4 роки тому

@@austinshoupe1506: Yes, I can tell you didn't understand my comment, because you apparently think we are in disagreement.

@jayshockey5461 5 років тому

Great stuff guys! 👊🏻👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻💪🏻👍🏻👍🏻

@mgapagnolo4476 5 років тому

Would be nice if you spent a little time on Campagnolo as well. I have done a search for Campy on GCN and there are no product reviews in all these years. I own Campagnolo Chorus and would love to see a comparison of Chorus, Potenza, and Record.

@ciaphascyne8866 5 років тому

shimanos been runnin this same ad for 30 years. 105 is just as good as dura ace minus the weight. we know. yes, its pretty much true.

@WHERESSS 5 років тому

I've had 105, Ultegra and DA. I can't tell the difference among the 3. I however only have DA now and will only ever buy DA. I don't really care about the weight. But that feeling of knowing that I have the best available while on the bike is worth the money for me. I admit this reasoning is nonsensical. And it looks better.

@solitaryrefinement6787 5 років тому

Buy once, cry once. The beautiful thing about owning Dura Ace is that once you buy it, it's your's forever and you'll always have a premium groupset to use on every ride. #ZeroCompromises #ZeroRegrets #MoreSmilesPerMiles

@WHERESSS 5 років тому

@@solitaryrefinement6787 Other than death in the family, I cry every 4-5 years because I need the latest and greatest DuraAce and eTap.

@bike-how-to-fahrradwerksta9921 4 роки тому

Thats a very good comparison. I've been working in a Bikeshop for a few Years and had been asked for this many times. I'm riding Mountainbikes instead of Roadbikes and slx and xtr feels nearly the same too.

@richard7059 4 роки тому

Fantastic comparison

@lazyremnant380 5 років тому

This is what I've been waiting for! (almost) exact same performance as their very highest top-end product, less than 500g of weight difference, but THREE TIMES cheaper? Should be a no-brainer if you're even a slightest bit conscious about budget! It's almost scary how incredibly good the price-to-performance ratio for 105 is, Shimano must be using some black magic in their factory, LOL

@scottcockburn9112 5 років тому

I would choose 105 due to the fact that the Dura ace group set cost more than my bike

@SwiftTelly20 4 роки тому

Wish they would do an updated version of this. I didn't check the date before watching.

@madmick9205 3 роки тому

I commented previously that I wasn't overly impressed by the step up from claris to ultegra. I do stand by that but since then swapped the rear cogs to a 105, 11 to 32 and the shop set the angle of the mec. It's a massive improvement for sure and so yes I'm finally getting the benefit of ultegra. However I think the point is that the lower range kit is really good and the step up isn't so huge for that reason. Of course the weight difference is there and that matters, but cost to benefits of the upgrade isn't so obvious at the less intense type of riding. Still I love my carbon and full ultegra kit immensely. Stig

@SM_525 5 років тому

In a practical sense, everyone who's really passionate about cycling, realizes 105 is all you'll ever need. However, what fun is that?

@williamkeys5701 5 років тому

Agreed

@Swampster70 5 років тому

Need... ... or want? I like the durability of Dura Ace and the nice little ball bearings where 105 has bushings... Does it make it faster or does it make it more serviceable or reliable? Maybe it's due to the fact that I'm like a magpie and like shiny things - once every decade I buy a new bike with Dura Ace and get the bling parts at a much discounted price due to the bike build - and then have parts that are easily serviced for the next decade: a strategy that's served well since 1987.

@SM_525 5 років тому

@@Swampster70 I've used Dura Ace, Record, or Red on all my "special" bikes for over 15 years. On my rain/winter bikes, Rival/105. There is a difference and I can tell very easily, but the differences are small. Still, I'd never ride less than say Ultegra on my nicer bikes.

@andyhaochizhang 3 роки тому

So in a world where everyone is blind, most people can just happily ride with 105.

@anju2606 3 роки тому

Great video! 105 vs GRX? I’m trying to choose between 2020 specialized diverge comp (2x 105) and 2021 diverge comp (1x GRX600). I ride 80% road 20% trail but mainly road focused. It’s my first and only bike so I wanted a road bike with versatility. Thank you!

@superalexpedroza 5 років тому

Please make a video comparing Ultegra Vs. 105!!!!

@neisseriagonorrhoeae 5 років тому

You're right. The only reason why I chose Ultegra instead of 105 is because there's no 105 Di2

@gcn 5 років тому

Di2 is so good eh?

@chinboy66 5 років тому

Global Cycling Network For a middle aged man with Rheumatoid Arthritis it is the difference between riding and not tbh

@MrYap123456 5 років тому

Dover Ben looks like you got yourselves a market!

@jeffk464 5 років тому

@@gcn nah, I don't want to have to plug my bike in.

@BPoweredLove 5 років тому

Give it time...

@kochka22 4 роки тому

You didn't talk about durability, how many km you can do with each parts ?

@antred11 4 роки тому

Agreed. To me that would matter FAR more than a few grams of weight difference.

@Max__apex 4 роки тому

Lubricate it and they will last a lifetime

@ronsmith5572 5 років тому

The Shifting on the 105 was quite loud which is not right sounded like the tuning was off . You could hear the chain dropping in the rear with each shift on the 105 where the shifting on the URA ACE was much quieter . I have 105's on my Bianchi and Tiagra's on my DIAMONDBACK Road Bikes and both are very quiet during shifts . Its only when the need for tuning do I hear loud shifting and chain dropping on the rear gears .

@christopherharmon9336 5 років тому

My Synapse came with 105 (10 speed), and I have been very happy with it. It has worked flawlessly for 6 or 7 years now. I say save your money, and stick with 105 unless you are competitively racing or you just really want the higher grade components.