Is “AMDip” Real? - AMD vs Intel CPU Consistency I’ve been seeing more and more comments about a supposed AMDip that AMD Ryzen CPUs have due to the distance and latency caused by the infinity fabric interconnect that bridges CCD CPU clusters and IOD silicon in AMD CPUs such as the Ryzen 7 7800X3D and Ryzen 9 7950X3D. Today we compare a 7800 X3D to an Intel 12900K to see if these claims have any merit. Get access to the discord: patreon.com/TheDisplayGuy

Frame Chasers going mainstream 💀

the amdip happens on 2 ccd cpus when the thread is moved to the ccd that doesnt have the data in the cache

The idea of AMDip is not really something you can catch with benchmarking. AMDip is all about fast movements with the mouse in random areas of games. It is not just tied to the CPU either it is common in the gpus as well. If you have both in your system with fast twitching movements it can be more obvious, but can be also be found in just the AMD cpu’s. What you said about overclocking AMD cpus i think really is the main point. With Intel it seems that overclocking doesn’t affect its stability it makes it stronger, when done correctly. And with AMD it gets more unstable no matter what. so that could make the dip even more obvious any why people are talking about it so much these days, they are trying to OC their AMD cpu’s and ram.

Oh man, someone’s about to whip out their note pad and make crazy faces while annunciating loudly.

The AMDip problem comes from the FCLK & CCD & IOD voltages. When you push FCLK to higher frequencies. It seems like the CCD& IOD voltages need to be tuned like a radio to find the right voltages to stop micro stutters. I got rid of mine when I did a BIOS update on my b650 aorus pro ax. Using F21 I was able to easily overclock to 8000-36-45 @ 1.5v, 1.05vsoc with XMP 6400mhz hynix a die ram. Now with 2200fclk i have zero issues& super smooth frame times using CCD @ 911mv & IOD @ 1047.

Me with my 7800X3D just blazing through games 🤷

You really should not test CPU consistency at highest settings in 4K. Also you should get the most complex difficult scenarios in a gaming title, that's where AMD goes down. If there are 10 people around you shooting, throwing grenades,... Then you'll see a big drop in 1% low with AMD when a 14700K/14900K stays stable :)

Had a 2700x and now a 5800x3D on the same socket and man owning AMD is way better than when I was stuck with my Haswell quad core waiting for Intel to deliver 😪

Yes, I can confirm the AMDip, based on the Intel (i7 13700k) and AMD (R7 7700x) builds I have. You dont see the DIP by showing benchmark numbers. Just grab a very memory intensive game and move the mouse in an open scenario and you see / feel the DIP. Very weak analysis...

7800x3d is best gaming gpu for 99% of gamers. That 1% are people who spent 5000$ on gaming rig to get every possible fps. I am still happy with 5800x3d..

Hmmm, well back on my old Ryzen 1800x I DID have these weird dips, like a hiccup almost, it really only noticeable in VR though, but it being in VR it was also really uncomfortable.

was subbed to framechasers at one point but it kinda felt like qanon of tech channels so had to amdip outta there

one of the top FPS gamers, Enders, uses AMD CPU. a 5900 series even, for gaming and content creation, he has really keen senses for any sort of dips, and says nothing is wrong with it. has won multiple tournaments for money on it. but he uses a 3090 for GPU. the way you should be looking for the dips, though is actually go play the game and look for those extreme dips while doing fast paced actions like whipping your mouse around. at 1440p or 1080p, frames uncapped

I had random lag until a bios update fixed the issue for me. The AGESA 1207 mentions this. It was intermittent and not too bad but so nice that it's gone!

I noticed the delay opening programs in windows frame chasers was on about with my 5800x3d (I was using windows 11). I recently reinstalled windows and my system is so much snappier so wondering if something has been updated that helps. In gaming I’ve never really had an issue. 1% lows were significantly better with my 5800x3d cpu vs my 5800x.

Should've reached out to Jufes to get his input. This is his creation.

if your having issues with stuttering disable resizable bar... it causes issues in some cases.

Why didn't you use the 14900k?

AMDip comes from Framechasers.

CAN I do ram memory xmp enable atleast ? 5:30

Curious why you would use a 12th gen intel? Also, when you say dont oc the 7800x3d, are you talking about not using PBO?

Frame Chasers says whatever will sell his products and services. Dude is a clown.

Why did you test at 4K and the highest graphical settings? Hopefully you realize that will fully load your gpu and not your CPU’s … the entire point of this video is to load the CPU’s … not sure why you would do that.

Perhaps someone at intel came up with "AMDip", It's kind of catchy! All they would have to do is say it a few times in the right places and gaming "experts" magically made it "exist"

When are people going to just enjoy playing games. 🙄

The AMDip doesn't happen in all games, but it's definitely real. Battlefield 4 is one of the games I found that causes the AMDip. I went from 9900K to 7800X3D to 13700K because of the AMDip.

The caveat is when frames are locked. You should lock your frames anyway when you can since it drastically improves your 1% lows on either platform, AMD or Intel. But for when frames aren’t capped & you’re pushing to their max, Intel typically has the advantage in 1% lows, albeit small. The biggest advantages of AMD x3d > Intel this generation include easier ram timings, cheaper cost, “plug-n-play” best performance (if you don’t like to tweak), much better thermals/energy efficiency & the AM5 platform which should be supported a few more years. Only way I can see Intel making sense is for high load productivity or enthusiasts who like to tweak their systems.

Hello! 5800X3D user here and I can confirm that I am able to use it with CO -30 on all cores totally stable in all scenarios (productivity+gaming). I might be somewhat lucky, but it is possible to undervolt X3D chips as well as a non-3D V-cache chip would. 👌 Silicon lottery is there for any chip, no matter the chip technologies used.

Take a look at Anthony Edwards' description of the differences between AMD and Intel design in his tech quickie UKposts channel

If there is some kind of frame dips on either company's CPU, it's due to a game specific bug, or you have some garbage running in the background, you can thank Microsoft for most of the frame dips usually.

Agree about overclocking the X3D CPUs, but I do not agree that undervolting is a problem. Obviously any time you mess with voltages you can reduce stability, but a well-tuned undervolt should be 100% stable and can get you up to a 10C temp reduction on the 5800X3D or 7800X3D. Very worthwhile.

So no all core negative CO and maxed out Loadline??

i have a 7800x3d + 4090 + DDR5 6000 cl30 with those old buildzoid safe hynix timing but i also have Asus's CPU overclocking profile turned on forgot what it's called but brings the cores to 5.2 lol might have to revisit that overclock profile. I haven't noticed an issue since the 7800x3d released so now i'ma start testing games and looking to see if there are massive frame drops with fast movements. if this only happens on competitive games like overwatch or csgo etc where people play at 1080p then yeah i'm probably not going to see a problem since im a graphics whore and play at max settings 4k lol maybe if i'm playing a game that isn't gpu intensive at those settings but i have to find one like that since im not testing the games at 1080p since i'm never doing that.

Thanks for looking into this.

Hairchaser simply is incompetent and he can't for his life do proper testing and check if IF is stable (most of his dips if they really do exist come from IF clocked higher than it should be with error correction kicking in). If anyone experiences such things, you should fire up some memory stress test (i.e. ycruncher) and play music in parralel in your browser or with your fav player. You'd almost immediately hear if something is wrong.

And what about AMD cpus with 2 CCD and without vCache?

4K for CPU test 😐🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

well at this point you should check may be if undervolting x3d's is an issue or rather mandatory😅

Undervolting X3D -30 is a godsend idgaf but I do keep expo off on my 7800x3d/ 32gb ddr5 6000 cl30 on xmp ofc

Everybody in the comments exposing themselves and their bias in the face of facts. Your settings being different may cause YOUR rig to be less stable; But the design of the chip itself isn’t inherently flawed, you’ve just seen it.

Frame Chasers claims this dipping happens in COD, whipping the mouse around also may cause dipping. No body else seems to make a big deal about this though so I wonder how important it really is to most people!

Does AMD use fewer checksums than Intel and if so, does it result in more execution errors?

Last system I built used a i7-7700k and Asus was a sure buy. Things seem much more confusing now.

Seriously I have AMD Ryzen .. online gaming since like always ... not a single issue! FPS runs at cap, no drops, no spikes, no overloads or overheat etc ...

You didn't compare with the 7950X3D which has 2 CCDs vs one in the 7800X3D

the dip is real, but its not a big deal. its only under certain circumstances in particular areas of games. if you went to these particular areas in games and hopped on one foot while touching your nose with your right index finger, you could make it studder. im on a 9900k right now, and if i had to upgrade i would probably go with a 7800x3d.

AMDIP is from frame chasers YT channel. He is comparing max overclocked 13900K at 6Ghz with 8Ghz ram vs 7800X3D also tuned at max. Intel can gain alot of performance from OC and tuning. AMD on other hand not really. Btw testing cpus at 4k not great idea.

Could be using a dodgy powerpack or one that has capacitor issues that does cause performance dip issues noticed that with a few retro Athlon builds while the chips was perfect the PSU's were aged after replacement there was zero issues with the builds also bloat ware or software like some anti virus scanning soft wares that can interrupt other software running it will drag a PC down

The dude is comparing a milked x3d cpu, with a past gen i9 handicapped by slow ram/ring. At this point it's clear you're not gonna see the full advantage of 12900K's monolithic architecture. The gain in 1% lows after ram tuning is usually even greater than the avg fps. My video with i9-9900K is a good proof of that. ukposts.info/have/v-deo/ZXSenJhoiJd_w3U.html Not like the amdip makes much of a difference, it just should be slightly less consistent on avg, that's it.

Never heard of or seen it happen with my three-month-old 7800x3d with OLOy 32GB DDR5 6000Mhz. No OC applied to the CPU (I think the max that can be gained is 5050 Mhz no matter what), only to my MSI Ventus RTX 4070 Ti, which is mildly set by MSI AB. No complaints, no dips, no errs...

I can’t believe people actually believe that lil weasel frame chasers it’s fkn wild

Nothing new. Been experiencing strange performance drops since the Athlon x2 days. My current systems are AM4 3950x and AM5 7900x3d.

Great work checking not just 1% lows but several other "min" criteria along the way. Steve at HUB also did a superficial investigation maybe a month or two ago into any potential empirical substance behind the narrative and also found nothing. FrameChasers is primarily an Intel/Nvidia fanboy appeasement channel and he's been promoting this "AMDip" narrative the most as far as I've seen. I prefer to avoid rewarding his content with views or any other sort of engagement.

Frame chasers, an intel fanboy invented this nonsense and naaf pushes it.

All I know is AMD better be prepared to stop using TSMC if rumors are true about China preparing to take Taiwan by force soon while the US is distracted with middle east stuff and the open border.. I have has a 7950X3d and see no issues gaming so I think this is some kind of Intel ruse to get people to switch to Intel.

Why is it that video existing because "waaa, I see comments" are always at least a little sus, if not entirely dogshit? Trust me brah, here are some barcharts!

Shouldn't have this been done vs intels best cpu not an i9 that had worse 1% lows than the 5800x 3d?

The Dip is real i posted video on YT, yes i have gen 1 ryzen but that makes it way worse of a problem as it means that they had that problem since 2017 and haven't fixed it still.

So called over clockers hitting power limits and not understanding what is really happening...also jedec memory timings are needed for fair comparison

In another comparison for Intel Haswell Family, a i5 4690 presenting 1% low & 0,1% low score points way better than his sibling i7 4790

Seen people mention his channel a lot recently. They forget to mention that he sells systems that mainly consist of intel. Likely just cherry picking results to sell more. Gamers nexus could resolve this

There's some truth AMD were a bit inadequate for high FPS games for a stretch. A friend was having trouble with Apex Legends - no idea why that game's so CPU demanding - anyhow the frame rate was dipping. He said people with much better systems than his also dipped in Apex. I got him to replace their Ryzen 2600 with a Ryzen 3600. No more dips. He could drop in a 5600 now or even 5800x3d, but he's happy with what he's got. The more difficult problem is if AMD keep making improvements what will we call the Intel 'dip'? Intelimping? Inteloosing? I can't find anything that flows.

audio? its not practical but imagine your favorite part of song/audio change places/tune/quantity itll become unreliable to score or recommend since idk what causes those not practical in sense most would find it no biggie, same as recording reliability, and true i can just score low its just how stage monitors work, produce sound as accurate, not as good/pleasing, pros need those

You should ask Jufes about AMD Dip

The dip their talking about happens With cpus that have the two chip infinity design 5800 &up (7×××also) because of the communication between the two chip infinity fabric design in which the problem is really in the non 3D versions. Which is why he used a 3d version with a generation behind intel. Not sure. What the problem is with this guy being deceitful towards the public is. I've seen this issue replicated on multiple test and not just in online gaming does this happen. Gamers Nexus is one site, it's the easiest testing results to find on this topic.

I'm sorry, but what does the chart mean by "Min"? How can the actual "Minimum" be higher than a 1% or 0.1% of the chart?

Little of column A, little of column B. As a hardware collector, and hardware admin that manages ~1500 devices at work. Yes. AMDip exists, but iDip also exists IMO Intel generally takes less work to alleviate the dips, short of the X3D parts. Also AMD screw you for cutting the cache in half on APUs Know what will save battery life on laptops? Not having to go out to RAM as often. Know what causes a CPU to go to RAM more often? Cutting the cache in half

I've seen this "AMDip" thing being used a lot on framechasers (pretty much every review he does on AMD CPUs). The comment section frequently points to the issues you have mentioned in the video with instability, yet he never seems to respond or do any benchmarks without oc. I'm not accusing him of lying, there might be issues somewhere at some point in specific games in particular scenarios, it is the nature of how complex these architectures and the software we run are (Digital Foundry has discussed and shown this). Both intel and AMD have their advantages but I'd love to see him or anybody else do his benchmark run on a 7800X3D without the oc to test if it really is caused by that. My guess is that the spots where AMD has worse 0.1% lows are caused by games/workloads that scale better with clockspeed/ipc or memory speeds (since intel can utilize oc memory better) or AMD's c-states/general power-saving features that run more aggressively than intel's I believe.

I appreciate the video, but I'd like to see this test redone at 1080p Max settings to ensure the 4090 is never the bottleneck, I get you capped the fps to prevent the gpu from maxing out, but at the same time that would alter the consistency of the cpus frametime performance, it would fluctuate a lot more if the cpu was always the limiting factor, plus would have been a more even comparison to try and compare it to a 13900k as I believe that would would have been the CPU to compare the 7800x3D to when it was released.

6:30 DOCP is ASUS's name for Intel XMP...AMD EXPO is named as EXPO.... I have an ASUS X670E Hero with a 7800X3D and i can tell you that XMP or EXPO or manufacturer or QVL list doesn't matter whatsoever. Buy which is the cheapest.

Look in just this short run, it shows that all in all AMD remains typical when acceptable parameters are used it's just still typical there is a better chip there's all that don't win and truly a waste of time to examine anymore, unless you just like self torture.

Amd haters are something else lol 😂

The 7700 is much better as far as non 3D cpus because of the single chip infinity Fabric design

DOCP / EXPO

DoofusJufes aka FramChasers Intel/Nvidia fanboy, fabricated this lie. He sells "tuning" services for Intel, Nvidia systems, and also sells "tuned" Intel/Nvidia rigs himself. He's the QuantumTV of techtubers.

Its has to be viewed during gameplay cod warzone usually show these results of the dip on the newer generation and the older one as well

you need to look at live frame time graphs while gaming to ascertain real stutter these static graphs and 1% and .1% lows are essentially meaningless.

This isn't how to test this.. you need to be running realtime frametime + mouse whip = you can visually see the spikes in realtime frametime graph.

Just because you didn't find it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. PC issues can be cause by one setting being changed.

yes

Benchmarking cpus at 4k 💀💀💀

Oh, and come on, no one is playing competitive games at 4k.

The people claiming "AMDip are the people who don't understand AMD's fundamental architecture and either just like to pump numbers and voltages as high as they can like its an intel chip or have an incorrect bios setup. AMD's architecture doesn't allow for that kind of tuning while remaining stable. Basically the important thing to note between AMD and INTEL is that for AMD, tune for better synchronization and less latency (while remaining fully stable) rather than the highest speeds and voltages you can get on memory, core, etc. A stable 6000mhz kit with tight timings is better than a 6400 kit with more latency. From my experience on ryzen 3000-5000, Infinity Fabric should run 1:1 with Memory. so for example, if you're running say a 5900x with ddr4 3600 cl18 kit, Fclk should be at 1800mhz to be 1:1 with Mclk. On my 7800x3d, I have found the platform to be smoothest when IF runs 2:3 with memory which lines up with tech reviewer's recommendations perfectly. This is why people and channels have repeatedly recommended a 6000 (preferably cl30) kit because any 7800x3d can run 2000mhz Fclk stock without any manual tuning. My personal recommendation for 7800x3d is to buy a 6000cl30 kit, enable expo (assuming the manufacture's expo profiles themselves are stable at this point), offset -10 to -20 all core undervolt in PBO, and leave it there. Keep in mind that an all core offset can be stable on some cores but not others (This is why a -30 might technically work but actually be less stable). Verify that FCLK is at 2000mhz, Re-Bar on, and call it a day.

Potential issue with dual CCD, non 3D-stacked AMD CPU's. Tests with a Single CCD and 3D Cache CPU. Congratulations. You have proven nothing

Okay, Mr. Shady, why didn't you use a 13th gen intel? Which is not a generation behind🤔 People who do that miss matching crap to try to get amd to look better aren't fooling anybody. We both know why you didn't use a thirteen generation 😂

Nice.

Proud owner of 7800X3d

For me, the biggest problem with Ryzen is its idle power usage. When you doing normal things like using the Internet, watching YT, or doing anything outside heavy CPU loads Intel CPUs are using 8-9W of power while AMD is using 40-50W. The only huge difference is when you are doing a stress test with 100% CPU utilization but this never happens in the real-life scenario and with normal PC usage. Also worth mentioning is that this amdip happens on 2 ccd CPUs where processes are wrongly distributed between them.

7800x3d is worst cpu to test. 2 ccd cpu needed. Especially 5900x.

Running it against an older generation is a bit of a bias in and of itself by the way. As the range will always be bigger if it scrapes the ground. So you kinda showed which team you are on so to say. Making this test not believable. Perhaps also then indicating that you handpicked the games and/or settings.

intel fanboys are not gonna like this video haha

QVL lists dont matter

who really cares both are good especially for gaming you dont need the fastest most wont use a 7900xtx or 4090 take whats in your budget, these comapnies poop on you guys

That sounds like some Intel FUD bullshit

Not trying to attack nvidia fans but a nvidia fanboy probably made this up 😂

Why tf are you taking a 12900k and compare it to a 7800x3d? 🤔😂 Atleast take a 13700k oder 13900k to make it a proper comparison..

Why are you using a 12900k instead of a 139/14900k, both of which have more cache and slightly higher clock speeds. Also the AMDip occurs on cpu's using multiple CCD's.

Should have tested Rust.

It’s real