Can we all agree though that the actor who played Stannis is frigging great?

"I'll not become a page in someone else's history book" - Stannin the Mannis

I loved Stannis and Jon's interactions at the wall. Both frustrated at each other for following their own sense of duty, but also respecting each other for it.

An even more interesting aspect of the tragedy that plays out, is that Renly could possibly have changed it all and still ended up king - had he decided to back his older brother instead of going against tradition, with the promise that Stannis would name him heir unless he got a legitimate son. It's highly unlikely the latter would happen, and his daughter could not have been named Queen in her own right under the current laws. With Reny being heir-apparent he could probably have formed a marriage-alliance with the Tyrells. Their combined forces with Stannis' would probably have triumphed at King's Landing and what's more Rob Stark might even have sided with them, if there had been less confusion about who was in line to the throne. So two major turning points that led to the utter chaos of civil war was Cat deciding to kidnap Tyrion, and Renly deciding to proclaim himself king.

By Right Of Conquest, All Hail King That Big Boar That Gutted Robert!

I love Stannis' speech to get the troops ready to take Kings Landing: "Come with me and take this city!" That's it. That's all. Perfect for his character, no fluff no BS. Just the facts.

Best line.... The hound: 'whilst im standing on it, its my land.'

Is it weird that i like reading Stannis more than anyone else? He's done a lot of things "right" held the fort during the war to the bitter end, gave up on the throne to help the people, tried not to execute the innocent and hand out the laws fairly. But he always gets snubbed and screwed over. I have given up thinking we'll ever get the full story from George but i hope we get the battle of winterfell to wash the tv shows ending for him out of our collective mouths.

Man, 11 Minutes, that's a long yes

Not only is he the true and rightful king, he's The Mannis

9:12 - There's only one quote that needs to be said about it: 'He could hear the birds quorking in the rookery, so he put the papers away and climbed the steps to feed them. Three more ravens had come in, he saw with pleasure. "Snow," they cried at him. "Snow, snow, snow." He had taught them that. Even with the newcomers, the ravenry seemed dismally empty. Few of the birds that Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared.' - Sam IV in A Storm of Swords: I tear up a bit whenever I read that line.

In our hearts? Always.

STANNIS THE GOD DAMN MANNIS, I hope he wins the Game of Thrones!

Robert gave Dragonstone to Stannis, following precedent that the Targaryen dynasty did in appointing the heir to the throne there. Stannis always saw not having Storm's End as a slight and was almost blinded by that, missing that Robert, in an unwieldy show of affection gave him Dragonstone instead as a recognition of Stannis' efforts in the war and subsequently being his heir.

I always liked Stannis and thought he would have made a great king, particularly for the fact he was the only one to take the threat from Beyond the Wall seriously.

"Fewer." --Stannis the Mannis

Stannis Baratheon is my favorite character (after the Hound). And what the TV show did to his character and arc is a CRIME.

I love the fact that Stannis loyalists are still going strong ♥️ Mannis is our King 👑

Yes he is

When I saw the title, I thought to myself, this is medieval society, true kind is one with the biggest army to claim the crown. I love that you at least recognized that, because a lot of people miss this.

I think he’ll die heroically defending Winterfell from the Others. He will realise at the final minute that he is not Azor Ahai, but is merely buying time for him (for Jon Snow and Daenerys and Aegon)

Robert if he had to choose his own successor. “Trial by Combat single elimination tournament!!!”

Would you consider making a video on why Illyrio gave Dany the eggs, not fAgon? A video explaining how the eggs hatching affected Illyrio's plan would also be cool.

Stannis isn't the king we all want, but he's the king we all need. He just needs to settle down with the burning children thing.

Just commenting to also highly recommend IDG Live! - this guy is a pleasure!

In this universe the "true king" is who can take and keep it in the end. Any monarch is potentially vulnerable in this universe / construct. In the petty king era we saw kings wipe out competing monarchs / royal lines and take their lands. Aegon I had no claim but he took the realm by overwhelming force. As did Maegor again to an extent not long after him and Jaehaerys take it back and the Dance fought over who each thought was the rightful heir. Blackfyres as well, whether or not they even believed their claims were legitimate if they got the support , won the throne that would be the end of it. Bobby B was not born expecting to be king of anything and yet he , Ned / their forces overthrew a three century familial dynasty and Robert ended up being king of the realm for almost 20 years. Thats what it comes down to , any monarch can be challenged if one believes their claim , gains enough support / forces and actually pushes the issue. Keeping the throne can be just as challenging as gaining it in the first place. If you can take the throne its yours. Stannis if he wins the throne it will be his. Perhaps more the important question is would be be a good king ? i personally suppose he would. Probably more so before Mel / R'hllorist corruption. But he is a "do the right thing" type , seems quite fair and just. Not the most charismatic or popular , certainly wouldn't have masses clamoring to install him. But compared to Robert's disinterest and neglect and Renly's lack of seriousness or suitability , Stannis would be more the king you need compared to the other two who might be the king many might want / have wanted. Let alone compared to the awful Lannisters. Plus SB's current overall approach , feeling it is his right and duty to be king (rather than simply wanting it) and trying to save the realm to facilitate that is much more honorable and noble than most other claimants we've seen thus far.

Let’s go stannis the king

It all revolves around oold Nans kidney pie. With the peas

Credit where it's due. Stannis and Jon Snow were the only ones who tried to do anything about the white walkers.

Power resides with those that men believe it resides. It’s a trick a shadow on the wall.

Haven’t hit play yet, but the answer is yes and will always be. Stannis will always be my rightful true king. ❤😎

This topic never gets old.

Wow, that wasn't what I expected! It was much better! Well done Robert! A thinkpiece, if you will ...

I think the point of the story is to show you that no one is rightfully owed rulership by virtue of blood. Stannis himself seems to only fight for the throne because he believes he is obligated to by the letter of the law. In his mind the throne has been burdened on him.

Yes, he is. It's not even a question.

Excellent, as always❤thank you IDG

King: I am Arthur. King of the Britons. I am your king! Peasant: well I didn't vote for em.

I personally think its a pretty fun exercise to go over all the potential claiments: - Stannis (Via Blood and Conquest) - Dani (Via Blood) - Aegon (Via Blood) - Potentially (and probably) Jon (Through Blood AND potential Legitimaization through Robb's Will) - BloodRaven (Via being Legitimaized by his dad) - Bran (If BloodRaven chooses him and House Stark to be the Targ Heirs, as heir by monarch's choice occurs alot in House Targ.) - The Others and/or The Forest Children (if they manage to win via Conquest... though if that is the case, I doubt there is going to be a need to argue it lol)

Another great video. Stannis was a great character. Great as in unique. Great stories are not completely comprised of all the main characters being successful

man ive seen this channel grow so much over the past year or two. im so glad. you put in so much work, have such interesting takes, keep such an open mind, and you read as though youre an english professor but not a pretentious one. i hope 2024 sees you double your numbers!!

"STANNIS, STANNIS, STANNIS!"

I feel like Robert would have left the throne to Ned. Just like he did until his "son" came of age. Robert considered Ned his true brother and shared his childhood and went to war with Ned.

Yes. Bend your knees or lose your heads.

Stannis could try to claim the throne by the divine right of prophecy, being proclaimed Azor Ahai by Melisandre. The king, chosen by R'hllor to defend the Seven Kingdoms in the Long Night against The Great Other

Aegon I Targaryen, also known as Aegon the Conqueror and Aegon the Dragon, won the iron throne by conquering the six kingdoms. So Robert's claim to the iron throne is based on Aegon's initial claim: by right of conquest. Given the history of Westeros, whoever sits on the iron throne is the king or queen. Nothing else matters.

Stannis was indeed the true heir to the Iron throne however George RR Martin is the writer so we basically see why he invented the Lannisters and Cercei. And Cercei becomes a central theme of the show and probably the novels for every opportunity to expose her illegitimate actions and remove her from power are basically told to her like videogame cheat code so she's able to just order her minions and cronies and those she corrupted so everything falls apart. Meanwhile Stannis comes off as a very hard working man who gets some unfortunate things happening his way and unfortunately he also made the alliance to Allisandre and gave her too much credibility and power.

I think we’re given to see Stannis as more honorable and purer in motives than he is because our main pov on him is Davos, who desperately wants Stannis to be the man he believes in. But the man Davos believes in wouldn’t have now killed or helped kill four different rivals by blood magic, and Edric Storm wouldn’t have needed rescuing from.

The case is pretty clear, from a purely legal standpoint: Westeros, like every other, real life or fictionnal state, works with laws, and those laws are clear and well established, especially when it comes to the transmission of power in a monarchy. The basic principles we can find in real life history are here the same in Westeros, and they are as follow: the power is hereditary, meaning the descendants of the current ruler will inherit their rank and status once said current ruler dies (or much more rarer, when he abdicates, note that actually, in most monarchies in history, the monarch was not allowed to abdicate because it was considered to be not a right, but a duty, a sacred burden he had to carry until his death); then, comes the "who exactly will inherit among the descendants?" and there comes the second part: in most real life cases, it is the principle of primogeniture of the male heir that applies, a French term that means that it is specifically the eldest child who will inherit the power, and specifically the male heir, in short, it means women cannot inherit and cannot become the ruler, if the eldest son dies before becoming the ruler, then it passes to the second eldest, and so on; if no son remains, then the succession line goes back to the brothers of the current ruler, first, the second eldest brother after the current ruler, who then begins his own dynasty, and power will be transmitted to his own descendants following the same rules, and so on and on. In Westeros, it seems women can inherit power, and only the principle of primogeniture apparently applies. Now, that means that after Robert's demise, his eldest son Joffrey should become the King, and in case of Joffrey's death, his sister Myrcella should become Queen, and so on until Tomen. Note that in all real life monarchic system, as the entire system was built around religious beliefs, the law of succession and transmission of power was specifically something that the sitting King did NOT have the power to change, it was beyond his control and he had no say in the matter, and, since Westeros' system is also heavily influenced by religion, it stands to assume that the rules here also have this permanence attached to them, as the fundamental laws of the kingdom, that not even the ruling King can modify, so it is most likely that Robert, even if he had wanted, would not have been able to not recognize Joffrey as his successor anyway since it was something that was set in stone by the laws of the kingdom regardless of his opinion on the matter. Now, of course, we know Joffrey is not actually the son of Robert, and in that case, not being the legitimate blood son of Robert would instantly disqualify Joffrey and his siblings from any claim to the throne (said siblings being not the kids of Robert either, they are disualified under their own merit), but of course, such thing would need to be proven before a special court of law who would pronounce for or against it. Admitting it is publicly proven that Joffrey and his siblings are not Robert's children, then, according to the laws of succession, Stannis, as the second eldest son and brother of Robert, would legally be the rightful King, and his children after him would succeed him and found their own dynasty. Now, comes the dispute about whever Stannis or Daenerys should be the rightful ruler, based on the opinion about whenever Robert's Kingship was legitimate or not, since he effectively rebelled against his then King and overthrew him. Legally speaking, Robert committed a Coup, aka he illegally seized power from the current legally reigning King, and as such, all his actions ever since as sitting Monarch could be ruled as null and void in a court of law, and Daenerys should be instated as the rightful sovereign of the land according to said laws, as she is the eldest known child of the late King who is currently alive, so in this interpretation, Daenerys is in all intents and purpose THE only legitimate Queen of Westeros, and Stannis' claim is invalid because it is based on his late brother's reign which was illegal, and as I said, null and void. However, that was the legalese interpretation, now, let's look at the facts, let's take the example of the French Revolution: the revolutionaries overthrew King Louis XVI and declared the end of Monarchy, legally speaking, it was obviously illegal, in reality, a whole new set of laws was drafted to make it legal in the first place, the Monarchy was legally dismantled, and the Republic was instated, with a Constitution, and all that comes with it; and in the case of Robert's reign, it can be argued of the same fact: the fall of the Targaryen dynasty and the sitting of Robert on the Iron Throne has effectively brought for a new legal order, where while the fundamental laws of the kingdom remained (the succession laws among other things), the legal legitimacy of Robert to be King of Westeros has become de facto the new legal standard, backed by the power of the State, just as with any other regime change: the current ruler, who commands the military might of the State, is the one who has the physical power to make the laws or back his claims, therebery making it the new legal standard, just as with the French Revolutionaries who took down Monarchy by force and then used said force to back their newly made legal claims: a new legal order simply replaces the old one. So, at the end, from a purely legal standpoint: Stannis Baratheon is the legitimate claimant to the Iron Throne, but, since Daenerys Targaryen obviously doesn't accept this claim and believes the old legal order where her father was the KIng still applies, she evidently needs to win this war to then back up her claim and make it the new legal state of affairs, also by necessary extension, making Robert's previous reign null and void so as to also deny any of his surviving family members the legal claim to the throne.

As Stannis said: "they'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them" and that goes for everyone

"Few of the birds that Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached STANNIS, though. One found Dragonstone, AND A KING WHO STILL CARED"

WOO! LETS GO DEEP!

I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him? My knees are bending instantly

Yes, and Rickon is king in the north. The north remebers and oaths were sworn before the old gods and the news.

Your voice is so good! You really get your point across by using the lanuage and your voice. Good stuff!

*5:51* It doesn't matter whether Robert would have "stuck with Stannis as his heir". It matters that Robert died without true-born children and so Stannis was next in line.

One of the main themes, and I dare say the point of the story, is that divine right to rule is a stupid concept. Technically you can skew the logic of Westeros succession to make patchface the true king.

Robert was King by right of conquest. Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were all bastard born. Therefore, Stannis is the rightful heir. It's not that complicated. Stannis has not been conquered (yet) when he is, his claim will die with him, but until then, All Hail Stannis Baratheon, The First of His Name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm.

Being king is sort of like being a champion fighter, you're only really one if you've defended your title. Abtaining it through inheiritence is like becoming champion by the prior one retiring.

A nice and simple yes or no question to which the answer is YES. Long live the one true king! 👑

There is no "right of conquest", Robert was Aerys' nearest relative who was neither disinherited (Rhaegar, Maegor Brightflame) nor illegitimate. If the rebels had staked their rebellion on "right of conquest" then Jon Arryn would have become king, but they needed a legal backing. The "right of conquest" argument is only ever used by people with somehow less understanding of medieval procedure than the average GOT fan.

One realm. One God. One King!

Great video!

Stannis the Mannis will always be king in our hearts

One Realm! One God! One King! Stannis! Stannis!! STANNIS!!!

The way I look at it, Robert got to establish a new dynasty by right of force because he lead a just rebellion against an oppressive ruler, but once the new dynasty was established the righfull kings should be in accordance with the line of succession, which given what we know as readers makes Stanis the rightful king.

In Varys's wise words: "Power resides where men believe it resides"

Robert definitely did consider Stannis his heir aside from Joffrey because Stannis received dragonstone which was in theory a more prestigious title granted only to the heir of the king.

Elvis is king.

I'm a republican, yet Stannis is my king

Stannis is so hugely underrated

Stannis truly is "The Mannis!" It's just a pity we will never see his destiny fulfilled, in the books that shall never be written.

Not only is he the true Baratheon heir over Joffrey/Tommen/Myrcella, even by the laws of succession in Westeros, he’s also the Targaryen heir over Danaerys, because his grandma was a Targaryen. He’s the one true king twice over

Luv Stannis the Mannis. Luv me Onion Knight. ’Ate the Lannisters. Not raycist, just don’t like them. Simple as.

GAARRMM ain't never finishin' this s**t...you're killin me man! I get the feeling that he's just going to write the ending he thinks will disappoint the smallest number of people. Still thinking of who (like Brandon Sanderson) would finish the s**t for him.

One other point: Mel uses Stannis to summon the shadows (implied in the books, explicit in the show). This requires 'king's blood' which you could argue suggests that the metaphysics recognises Stannis as a king. (also burning his daughter, as having the king's blood of her father)

GRRM: all kings are tyrants, all monarchies are inherently broken & a martial society ruins everyone in it ASOIAF community: yeah but is Stannis' claim better than Dany's ? GRRM: you don't deserve another book No, Stannis is not the "rightful king". There is nothing "rightful" about being a king, or a queen. The author could not possibly be clearer about this.

I'm pretty sure had Robert known he would have named Ned his heir..

I think there's something to be said about Bobby B naming Stannis to Dragonstone as well. Stannis saw it as a slight, but Dragonstone IS where, historically speaking, King's shoves their heirs.

6:36 I think Viserys II was the one who solidified it and they went with it. He got sick and tired of all the ridiculousness, and made it clear that Male Primogeniture is the way of succession for the Iron Throne. 2:52 As far as House Baratheon goes, yes he is the heir. Robert had no trueborn children, and so it goes to his brother, Stannis, then Renly. If Robert had his succession in line with Edric Storm (legitimized) then yes he's got the higher claim. And so, with that said: Robb didn't want the Throne, just wanted to rebel against what Joffrey had done to his father. Renly wanted the Throne because... well, he's just a fool. He's kinda just doing his own thing 😅 The Ironborn are... always looking to rebel so, I dunno, they're just there to be a problem. Joanna Lannisters after the Dance was right, she wanted them dead and gone and I agree (maybe not with the Genocide but...) As for 5:00 The Targaryens are the ones who created the Iron Throne, and were the royals of the entire continent. Not a Westeros of 6 or 7 King's, but a Westeros with one King. The Iron Throne is a Targaryen-placed position of power, and so I'd argue that until all the Targaryens are dead, then it belongs to any member of their family remaining. But then again, this is my own interpretation of how it works I'm sure plenty will agree/disagree, and I'm all for it 😅

Well the throne belongs to whoever has the power to take and hold it. Whoever has the biggest and most powerful army wins. No one has a “right” to the throne. Legitimacy is a concept we humans come up with to justify why someone deserves power over others. Usually after a dynasty is established and successors to the original founder of said dynasty wish to consolidate power. A Targaryen loyalist would say Daenerys is the rightful Queen of the seven kingdoms. Robert Baratheon is just a usurper and Stannis and Joffrey are also usurpers. A Baratheon loyalist who believes Stannis that Joffrey is a bastard will follow him. And a Baratheon loyalist who believes that its lies will follow Joffrey.

The day has finally come

Didn't need the whole video to say "Yes," but it was a good watch anyway.

YES Next video

Sorry I’ve missed some live streams, I finally started reading the books (listening to the audio books) because of your videos and it’s very time consuming. Just returned Storm of Swords to the library today! I’d love for you to do a video about your thoughts on the audio book narrator and his pronunciation lol

Perhaps the greatest reason to have a line of succession is to determine a successor to mitigate turmoil when the king dies without declaring a successor. So in lieu of Robert choosing an heir you defer to the line of succession. What Robert might have done doesn’t matter. Stannis was next in line. None of Robert’s bastards had been legitimized. So all of this is moot, particularly given we know Joffrey and Tommen were not legitimate heirs. Doesn’t matter an iota whether we thought Ned was doing the right thing or not. Ned did what he did to spare Robert more agony on his death bed. Ned was motivated by his love for Robert. Not to choose the successor. And Ned’s duty was to the realm and as such he did what he did out of the rules of the realm. Not because he had some preference for Stannis. I guarantee you, had Robert’s new heir been someone he despised, he still would’ve done what he did. Meaning Ned adhered to the rules of the realm. You can quibble about whether it was the best choice or not, but by the laws of the realm, Ned did exactly as he should’ve.

I’m always been a kings man. Stannis is the true king. He’s the line of the userpa but he was the best of them

By the Baratheon line of succession, yes, but not in any general other way would Stannis actually be in line for the iron throne

He's the king of my heart.

He's my king til this day until my last day!!!

He's not the King we wanted, but he's without a doubt the King that Acted. Actions speak louder than words, and while the other Kings spoke of birthright, he acted on the Kingdom's best interest. Because of this, he is the rightful King in my books.

The king of our hearts indeed)

Stannis was a good guy blinded by power but he did come out of that and tried to do the right thing; I believe that's why Davos liked him.

If Stannis wasn't the rightful king, he wouldn't say he was the rightful king.

Jon is the Song, the Song of Ice and Fire.; of Lyanna the Stark, and of Rhaegar the Targaryen. He is a young pup, immature and half-grown. The Song sings of his mentors, of: Ned Stark- the man who taught Jon the meaning of Honour, Jeor Mormont- the man who taught Jon perspective, and Stannis Baratheon- who shall teach Jon the true meaning of Kingship. Two mentors have perished in their duties. Stannis still has a part to play, as Jon has not yet grasped the true meaning of Kingship. Stannis shall defeat the Freys and join with the Manderlys, and Jon shall be revived by Melisandre. Then an army of Freefolk shall rush upon Winterfell like cascading snow; and the North will be reclaimed.

There is precedent for Stannis being heir in the event of Robert's children being illegitimate, Stannis was given Dragonstone and named as heir before his children. I don't think saying "well he might have legitimised a bastard" when he showed no inclination in life towards doing so, and it's completely fair to revert to a previous decision made by the king with the revelation that whatever prompted the king to make said decision is proven false.

Short answer: Yes Long answer: Absolutely Effing Yes

Yes

I feel like the central theme of the Iron Throne is that the "rightful king" is that which the common folk believe to be proper. In essence, power comes from the people. Stannis never had that support, due to a combination of schemes, propaganda and sabotage.

3:02 And when deciding who would get Storm's End after he became King (effectively 'inheriting' his former status as Lord of Storm's End) Robert chose Renly over Stannis.

Robert had one son with Cersei (mentioned in the books) and Jimmy threw him among the bastards. So one of Robert's bastards is the legitimate son and true heir to the throne.