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A boycott is not the same as cancellation. Chris is conflating the two. One is a person choosing not to give an entity, business, money. The other is a person demanding the entity or person be stripped of the ability to do business, be employed, etc.

Thanks for having me on the show, can't wait for the full episode to drop!

I'm tired of people comparing the follies of a single person getting them in hot water to the blunders of multi-billion dollar corporations. These two are not the same and should NEVER be treated the same.

The Bud Light incident was not just one thing, it was the tipping point of a constant onslaught of that idealogy. Bud Light, Target, Hershey, and tons of other companies have bent over backwards to appease this tiny minority while demeaning anyone who doesn't agree.

Bud Light was just the tipping point. I don’t drink beer but I think people were also more upset about the insulting demeanor and comments by the female exec along with the Dillon thing, and this controversy also made a lot of people realize/learn that Budweiser was no longer American owned. I don’t think they will ever come back from this.

It wasn't *just* the Dylan thing with Bud Light. It was the public comments by Alyssa Heinerscheid that were very critical and demeaning about the people to whom it was her job to sell beer. She called her customers "fratty and out of touch" with such sneering condescension that it alienated 25% of their customer base.

Chief Marketing Officer here - that wasnt just "some intern". That went through execs and they messed up.

Konstantin may be a comedian, but man hes one of the most balanced, intelligent, articulate thinkers and voices out there helping to turn society back to a place where both sides can debate and discuss without being persecuted and 'cancelled'. He's very respectful and graceful, while critically analysing the arguments of the opposing views. He doesnt demonise the other side or fight fire with fire by resorting to hatefilled rants & insults. Its all very calm controlled and balanced. I really appreciate him.

In Finland we live in arctic you know.. Probably not... but anyways, we have recently had in all advertisements about half of the people black. How strange that is considering the ethnicity here. It's like it's all decided somewhere. And mainly there is no white men left in ads.

The bud light thing was more than Dylan Mulvaney. It was also the fact that the head of marketing came out and basically shit on the consumers of bud light. Calling them outdated and fratty. I don't have a degree in Marketing but Im sure insulting your customer base was not apart of the lesson plan to increase sells.

A quick recap on what Harris said would have gone a long way towards clarification of the discussion.

Chris you should look into ESG scores and how a lot of this ideology is forced upon large corporations in order to access credit lines. The ad with Dylan Mulvaney was no accident, they were trying to improve their ESG. ESG was not exactly the cause of the backlash against Bud Light but it is the reason these ideologies have become so pervasive with large corporations

I don’t understand why no one discusses ESG scores when they discuss Bud Light and WHY these companies are doing it. It’s because their investors are making them do it, not because they care about any cause.

Chris considering she was the VP of marketing not some " small person " and was GIVEN Bud Light to keep it going from a man who had built up the brand for 20 years into the #1 beer. She had no respect for her customers, wanted to change it to appease her sensibilities and got burned to hell and back. You also forget that Busch had a window where they could have just apologized and walked it back and this is where you mess up Chris: The company had time to fix what happened, but as the weeks went by, the people who was their customers came to the conclusion that they was not going to do anything or give the usual half hearted approach (which did happen) and people was tired of it, so Busch paid for their "we will outlast the customers and they will come back". Also it was found out later on that this was to be a major push using Dylan as a face for the beer. They walked into that partnership with both eyes open, but didnt realize it would make people so mad that it was worth breaking habits which had been done for decades. Most Americans are forgiving on most issues and mistakes, but you have to own up to the mistake and walk it back. But doubling down on a mistake of that magnitude just cemented their fall.

8:58. Konstantin is exactly right on the Bud Light situation. This was not like a comment taken out of context. The company explicitly and deliberately decided to poke its customers in the eye and tell them they were unworthy of their business. Chris falls back on an unprovable hypothetical to suggest that the public “would have been unfair.” If that’s true, then it shouldn’t be hard to find an actual provable example. I can’t think of one. Without that, it’s not the interesting point that Chris thinks it is.

With the bud light thing, people felt like "the message" was being crammed down their throats from every direction in a way that could not be resisted. The Bud light incident was crossing a line far into their territory where for the first time that demographic was the primary supporter, so they had the means to resist that incroachment for the first time.

Giving grace to people is different than companies. People speak off the cuff and naturally make mistakes. It makes sense to forgive missteps and look at the whole person. Plus, criticism deeply affects (most) humans so that is generally enough. Monolith companies make intentional decisions to advertise and attract your business. If you don’t affect their bottom line, they don’t hear you.

When they gave Dylan Mulvaney a sixpack of Bug Light, the whole united right-of-center said "All you need to do is say you fucked up. Just apologize and take some responsibility." Instead what surfaced was in-depth interviews of absolute wokism and backpeddling cementing their distain for not only the existing customers but also the new people they were trying to cater to turned their back on them. I just find it odd that they lean into politics (and always on the left) when they know for a fact that you will alienate approximately 50% of people who are your potential customers.

Konstantin is a diamond in the rough. He is sincere, principled and only taps into criticism out of serious frustration and does not diminish people if he can help it. @samharris should be extremely appreciative and step back and think about his own preconceived notions.

Konstantin and Francis were beyond fair to Sam. Throughout their interview they constantly asked Sam if what he was saying was what he really meant and pointed out the weak points and Sam continued to double down.

Grace, space, good will...coherence and decency. We can definitely use more of these. Thank you both for helping to keep open discourse alive.

I can respect what Chris was doing, almost playing devil's advocate with his questions, really pushing and pulling on Konstantin's thought process with his questions. I really enjoy your podcasts, Chris.

Looking forward to the full episode. Looks like a great meta analysis of various conversations and experiences.

Sorry I don't feel bad for Sam. It's because of people like him that life sucked for 2 years.

My view is that he holds himself to be a great mind on many things, pompously so, and in public statements he ate a knob so wholly and completely that any other word out of his mouth is now tainted. His exposed his biases that could not be dissuades by facts and showed he is no better, and possibly worse, than those he rails against who hold onto religion so deeply it blinds them.

Konstantin is right. You can’t look at the individual events in a vacuum, whether it be Bud Light or Starfield. It’s the entire oeuvre of this movement, and we’re just starting to see the first breaking points

I simply love Konstantin Kisin - he is so centered in truth and yet so very kind in his deep understanding. He does cut through the crap. He does see the point and gets right to it. Thank you, Konstantine.

Chris Williamson and Konstantin Kisin are rapidly becoming two of my favorite listens.They are both amazing interviewers. They listen closely and don't interrupt and at the same time they hold their interviewees accountable for the words they say. They don't let their personal bias interfere. Keep up the great work

The "imagine if the decease had a 100% mortality rate for ... " argument is meaningless. You are basically changing one variable while locking the other - assuming people would respond the same way to a decease with a noticeably higher mortality rate. On top of that, there is a delay between a decease appearing and new vaccines being developed, tested, and shipped to the population, so it's not like everyone needs to make a decision the next day. With proposed mortality rate, the biggest nowadays skeptic won't be able wait to get vaccinated. Though, I agree that the next time anything like it happen, there will be a lot more information pollution that will lead to more skepticism and hesitancy to act timely.

The reason it is the Sam Harris embarrassment tour is that he used to take logical stances and cultivated a logical audience. But now he has lost all logic so his original fans turn against him

It's the betrayal. Bud Light was a company that was supposed to be on men's side. Who would expect a beer company to go woke? The gamers experienced the same betrayal back in 2014 when multiple gaming publications (9) all published at the same time articles saying gamers were over and needed to step aside. It's a stab in the back from people who are supposed to be on your side and represent your interests.

We live in a consumer culture, the companies are the ones creating that culture, and we the people need to make our voices heard on what we want to consume and don't. I originally saw the Bud Light boycott as childish, but I now realise how important it was and for further boycotts, because we need to bring this culture back into normality.

You could’ve started with a recap of what the controversial tweet actually was. I have no idea what happened so this was exasperating.

Sam is such an interesting mix of a human because he is so overtly logical about most topics, while being wildly emotional about others. At the beginning of the pandemic, I actually sought Sam out for that reason. Everyone was losing their minds, and I thought Sam would be a calm rational voice in the void. But the opposite was true: Sam was truly scared, and his views got swept up in that fear. He is human,after all. I think people (myself included) forgot that.

For the budlight thing, it was mostly that they adamantly refused to aknowledge they made a mistake and apologise. They ignored the controversy and attempted to distract the public with other campaigns, instead. Heartfelt apologies work for everyone except the woke. This was not the time to be stubborn.

Absolutely spot on. I think it is also a reason why there are so many men left sour comments online and the rapid growth of red pill communities. When the narratives in mainstream media and every entertainment media are forcing one side of narrative, it is hard to say something else and it builds up frustration and anger.

Another thing that the beer company had going against them is that not a lot of people actually care about them. They are the McDonalds of beer, everyone already passively dislikes them as the cheap watered down swill for the poor, even if they buy it themselves. It's always been fashionable to hate on brands like that, so when they crossed the line the public didn't have to move much at all to end up at righteous fury.

How much more obvious information does one need to say it came from Gain of Function?? And we’re still doing it. More deadly and more contagious.

Great discussion, excellent and thought-provoking points, thank you! Subscribed!

I like Konstantin very much. He is a voice of reason and he and Francis do an excellent tandem. Congrats Chris!

Konstantin articulated what I was trying to figure out why Chris was making a false equivocation with Rogan and Budweiser. Very nice

When I hear someone refer to Dylan Mulvaney as “she” or as a woman I am immediately skeptical that I am talking to a rational person.

I was looking for the full interview and was about to ask why I can't find it. Can't wait for this to drop.

I’m a 60 + aged woman…. I’ve been saying for decades the need to respect our men! I can hardly watch a sitcom where the woman isn’t demeaning the man A reason why she’s many men 25 - 40 are single these days.

Regarding Chris' comment about latent resentment towards Sam, it wasn't latent resentment at all that was blowing up in Sam's face. It was the fact that when confronted about his controversial statements, he doubled down on them. He wasn't wrong. All of us were wrong in his eyes. The reason all of this blew up on him is he exposed himself for who he truly is. He's an ideologue who will wear the mask of having principles and integrity as long as it benefits him but the minute his "principles" might lead to an end he doesn't want he's totally okay with violating every principle he espoused.

I think one of many things in the bud light thing was the refusal to admit the mistake and apologise. If this had been done quickly it could have been saved

Bud light was not about the ad, but about them not backing down no matter what and pushing the non apology apology. They still have not apologized and are actively doubling down to this day.

Oh my goodness it's been a while since I've clicked on Chris's channel (followed him at 30K and watched him grow to 500K+, and stopped youtubing hard about 6 - 9 months ago) and I was pleasantly shocked to see he's well over a millon subs. ) I'm SO GLAD to see how much this channel has grown Chris! You deserve it so much!!!

Concerning the principle of "You can't judge someone on 1 thing they say". That is a good principle. I think in terms of the Bud Light cancellation it was a combination of the sense that it's not just "1 person", but global corporations all pushing in a direction the majority of Americans don't want the country to go in (regardless of what specific view anyone has on the Trans debate). It also came with the now typical non-recognition, followed by non-apology, followed by ultra-American commercials as a cheap way to placate the public back into buying their beer and forgetting everything. The problem is that anyone that's payed any attention has seen this pattern unfold in other places over the past 15 years or so. Another factor is the recognition that people we don't vote for are having more direct control in our personal lives. Bud Light was the one vector that people could control something more easily (not buy their product) vs. the amount of control they had on potentially losing their job if they didn't get vaccinated, discovering ESG scores and realizing their own 401k accounts are being used against them, Being forced to attend DEI seminars and being told every way they think is wrong, etc. They don't seem connected on the surface, but they all stem from the distain of unelected elites attempting to control your life. People refer to the 2016 Trump victory as "a middle finger to the American politics", Bud Light was a middle finger to elites.

The bud light thing is absolutely true. A public facing executive mocked her prime demographic. In a commodity high elasticity market.

Man, either you or Konstantin need to interview Dr.John Campbell when it comes to all things covid. Would be an amazing interview IMO

9:33 There's a MAJOR difference between judging a person you don't know based on one thing they've said... Vs companies pushing woke propaganda and citizens finally being able to voice their opinion on it.

Chris is such an amazing podcaster He really knows how to ask the right questions and drop some wisdom between topics

There's a funny quote from one Asmongold, something like "looking for hipocrisy is the terminally online people's porn, but ultimately everyone is hypocritical whenever it suits them". I find that the mere presence of conflicting views or claims in a single person is no cause for criticism, because often the person isn't even aware of the contradition between them. It's much more useful to look at people's reaction when you ask them about it in good faith.

Konstantin is a class act. Makes me wanna up my game. Keep it up, Sir.

Can’t wait for this full episode to drop.

Williamson is pushing such a bad line on Mulvaney. Thankfully Kisin kicks ass by the end. Their protracted defense of Sam Harris is preposterous though. Sam very obviously meant what he said, in context, as that has been the major text of his OCD for 6 years now. Kisin struck a little bit at Harris by saying "If I shared his view of Trump..." but that very adroitly elided just how insane Harris has become on the subject to other minds. I'll grant Kisin has tactical reasons to not go further, but it's obvious Sam is psychotic.

Once again, Konstantin provides the voice of REASON.

Love this chat. Really good. ❤

Exactly - the "boy who cried wolf" effect is a major concern of mine. A part of me wonders if this effect was produced intentionally. I can't think of a better way to neutralize all opposition to the authoritarianism than to deploy something actually dangerous in the near future. I'm very concerned about this.

Multi-million-dollar international corporations pushing mental disorders, disorders which can result in genital mutilation and literal castration of children in the US, is not really in the same universe as understanding that people make mistakes. I am really concerned at the number of prominent public people who seem to claim "all ideas are equally valid and need to be treated with equal respect". We can agree sexual exploitation of children is deeply immoral and act accordingly. Lines do need to be drawn somewhere for any social order to exist.

The thing with Harris' statement is that it merely confirmed my opinion that he's needed to get his ass off his shoulders for a long time now. He never should have stuck his nose in politics. It ruined a once great thinker.

Even in this hypothetical 40% killrate covid scenario, I still don’t see the logic or justification for forced vaccinations. People who wish to protect themselves can go get the vax, and people who would rather risk it can choose not to. I’d even say the people who are most afraid and really want a vax would benefit if vaccination was not mandated, because that means their own chances of getting a jab are higher since there’s less competition.

This is one of the very best interview clips I’ve ever watched. Both Konstantin and Chris perfectly articulate the opinions I share on SH, Trump, Covid, and Gillette, and Bud Light. I’m looking forward to the full episode.

What did Sam Harris say at the Triggernometry podcast that was so controversial? I missed that one :(

Great clip. Konstantin is a treasure and nails it IMHO. My father (RIP) fled Hungary during the 1956 "Rebellion" against the Soviets and he instilled in me the hatred he had for Communism and he was the reason I served in the US Military during the Cold War. Further, because Konstantin came from a Communist country I always pay attention. He knows and it resonates with me.

Two of my favorite podcasters. Such a great conversation to listen to.

Having just come here from scrolling Twitter - one thing I really appreciate is the level of civility in the comment section. Not just here but on UKposts in general. I don't know what it is, maybe it's the kind of people that are attracted to long-form conversations versus the total dumpster fire that is both Twitter and Instagram.

Great clip, well worth the time.

It's crazy that ppl think that in order to champion women you have to demoralise men and vice versa. We are different, we are complimentary to each other, let's celebrate each other's strengths and help each other with weaknesses, we need each other to be the best we can be, not fighting to be the other....

It wasnt a pebble in a stream. A serious thought leader exposed himself as being not just unreasonable and clumsy but as a manipulator who sees his worldview as more important than what is true. The backlash he got he earned. He should have got what he got. Stop making excuses for the man.

I can tell that Chris does very thorough investigations of any topics he covers. And by that I mean that he is on twitter all day

Chris is wrong about the Bud Light scandal. Far from a single incident, the boycott was a reaction to an issue that has been ongoing for years. Bud Light is far from the first, and the reaction to that movement is becoming stronger as an increasing number of life aspects are taken over by it. I was surprised by the lack of reaction to the Miller ad. The claim of the ad is that somehow the ads produced in the past by Miller itself and advertising companies are filled with unacceptable content and that is entirely the fault of people who had nothing to do with the production of those ads in the first place. It's an insidious claim and it deserved far more backlash.

I've been looking all over for this "viral" clip with Sam.. would have been great if you guys could have linked it in the description section.

These guys are way too nice to Sam. What Sam said is evil, morally abhorrent and disingenuous. What made it even worse is that It came from a person who a lot of us respected - Then he doubled down.

Taking things out of context is a real problem. I think we need to give each other more space to be human, and stop jumping to the worst conclusions about things. Remember nuance?

Good podcast, thank you...

I don't think Sam Harris was "canceled" by the right. He's still doing fine for himself. For many on the right who actually respected him, Sam used to be someone who was left wing, but still reasonable enough to engage with. I think the Triggernometry interview was simply the last straw. For a long time during the Trump and Covid era there were clear signs of his derangement. That interview was unfortunately the final definitive proof of it.

As a long-time listener of Sam, his TDS became a HUGE obstacle to his thinking. I don't care about Trump, and don't want to hear others drone on and on about their inability to handle their TDS.

great podcast

Great camera work btw, colors pop up so nicely

A woman who made the marketing decision to engage Dylan mulvaney was a VP of marketing. Not some random isolated low level executive.

Having watched Sam for a decade, there is something that has changed in his manner and thinking. I feel we owe him the space to work it out until he finds his voice. He just seems to have turned his back on relationships and his commentary was always fenced with humor and sarcasm. There is an edge to his comments today that is somewhat bitter. I hope he is well.

It's a whole shift of culture. Sam is a part. Bud is a part. Chris mentioned an iceberg. These 2 examples are the tip and people pointing to the tip is all we can do knowing there is a massive issue beneath the surface.

Imagine that..two people openly exchanging information in a reasonable manner. Then having that info cause small changes in perspective that makes everybody better for the experience. In 2023 this is crazy talk

There's something great about the way that Chris interviews when he says things like "Really? Have you looked at this?" in such a direct way that he puts interviewees on their toes in a non-combative way and it makes me think you could never bullshit your way through an interview with him. I feel like a chat with him could really let you know what you do and don't know about strong opinions you have. A really great interviewer.

People's strong negative emotional reaction to anything Sam Harris is ironic since their primary criticism of him is his strong negative emotional reaction to Trump.

0:49 You can feel sorry for people who are overwhelmed with shit, but at the same time, you have to consider the possibility that they have earned it.

Glad to hear kissin adequately educating someone about a point of view that he doesn’t necessarily share.

More folks need recognize a thought being explored to highest level capable. Free to find your way, and exhausting reason, we live with our choices until new info arrives. These fellows seem capable of this. Learn it, live it.

Concerning Bud Light, many voices had called for them to make a statement acknowledging the mistake. They didn't, not sure if they have even to this date, and that seemed to some to support the marketing campaign.

"Sell them the beer and shut up"😂

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:12 🧭 Konstantin felt terrible about the Twitter storm generated by Sam Harris's controversial comments, emphasizing the unpleasantness of such experiences. 00:27 💭 Quantity of negative comments on social media can become overwhelming, affecting even strong-minded individuals, emphasizing the need to avoid reading comments, as highlighted by Joe Rogan. 00:53 💌 Konstantin's primary concern during the episode with Sam Harris was for Sam's well-being and how he would experience the aftermath of the controversial Twitter clip. 01:49 🔥 Konstantin disagreed with Sam Harris's views on COVID-19 and Trump, expressing concern about overestimating threats leading to drastic actions. 02:28 🎙️ The interview aimed at giving the guest an opportunity to reveal themselves positively rather than exposing or "gotcha" moments. 03:25 💉 Evaluating the risk and reward of COVID-19 and vaccine mandates influenced perspectives on government intervention and public health decisions. 03:53 🦠 COVID-19 was seen as a vaccine that exacerbated vaccine skepticism due to its impact on society and medical systems. 05:17 🦠 Konstantin stressed the importance of investigating COVID-19's origins to prevent future pandemics, questioning the origins and potential for another pandemic. 06:53 💭 Konstantin emphasized the need for an honest conversation about the origins of COVID-19 and the risks associated with gain-of-function research. 09:12 🍺 Analyzing Bud Light's marketing controversy, Konstantin highlighted the tension between corporations pushing certain narratives and the public's reaction to being lectured. 16:46 💥 Konstantin connected the anti-woke sentiment to the perception that major institutions project a specific worldview onto the public, contributing to the pushback against narratives demonizing masculinity. Made with HARPA AI

One of the best podcasts

I have listened to Sam podcast for years. In my opinion he is heavily influenced by the Atlantic and NY times. These companies have scary long from narratives about Trump and Covid. Sadly, I think Sam falls for them.

nice job bro

Rosanne Barr is famously Jewish. She had a hilarious bit about growing up in Arizona and her dad embracing the cowboy culture walking around with a belt buckle that was a turquoise star of David.

Great conversation

Chris. I love you. I love your show. But it wasn't that people were waiting for Sam to fuck up. He fucked up hard throughout covid and continues to torture logic to this day on the subject.