Stephen Kotkin & Orville Schell: What Drives Putin and Xi (Part One) | The Foreign Affairs Interview
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День томуForeign Affairs invites you to listen to its podcast, the Foreign Affairs Interview. This episode with Stephen Kotkin and Orville Schell was originally published on June 30, 2023.
Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin loom over geopolitics in a way that few leaders have in decades. Not even Mao and Stalin drove global events the way Xi and Putin do today. Who they are, how they view the world, and what they want are some of the most important and pressing questions in foreign policy and international affairs.
Stephen Kotkin and Orville Schell are two of the best scholars to explore these issues. Kotkin is the author of seminal scholarship on Russia, the Soviet Union, and global history, including an acclaimed three-volume biography of Stalin. He is a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies and the Kleinheinz Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. Schell is the Arthur Ross Director of the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society. He is the author of 15 books, ten of them about China. He is also a former professor and dean at the University of California, Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism.
In part one of our conversation, we discuss the early lives of Putin and Xi and how history has shaped their worldviews.
Part two of this interview can be found here:
• Stephen Kotkin & Orvil...
SOURCES FOR THIS EPISODE
“Prigozhin’s Rebellion, Putin’s Fate, and Russia’s Future”: A Conversation With Stephen Kotkin
www.foreignaffairs.com/ukrain...
“Russia’s Perpetual Geopolitics” by Stephen Kotkin
www.foreignaffairs.com/guest-...
“Life of the Party” by Orville Schell
www.foreignaffairs.com/guest-...
“China’s Cover-Up” by Orville Schell
www.foreignaffairs.com/guest-...
@dancaulfield1008 10 місяців тому
Babe, wake up, Kotkin did another interview.
@shadyberger5695 10 місяців тому
me, racing home to listen in
@MarcosElMalo2 10 місяців тому
Kotkin should be given a major league contract.
@dsadawrware 10 місяців тому
literally me
@treverblanco 10 місяців тому
Kotkin is a treasure.
@gaiusvincent9643 10 місяців тому
I agree, rather afraid he would too!
@Panzerino02 10 місяців тому
No, He isn't... .
@timty8224 10 місяців тому
It's always a great day when I discover a newly posted Stephen Kotkin presentation on UKposts. His perspective on geopolitics is always informative (of course), nuanced, and strangely calming. I've learned a great deal from this man, a true sage for this particularly tense era.
@johnmaisonneuve9057 10 місяців тому
When is Prof. Kotkin’s third volume of Stalin’s biography coming out? The first two could not put them down, they were so fantastic.
@tnndll4294 9 місяців тому
It will come-out when George RR Martin's finishes Winds of Winter.
@neidringhaus1915 10 місяців тому
Looking forward to my commute for once to listen, can't wait for part 2! Thanks to everyone involved
@gogudelagaze1585 10 місяців тому
I cannot express how much respect I have for both of these people. I never thought I'd see them in a dialogue like this. Thanks for making this happen!
@kaylidington 10 місяців тому
Both experts in their fields and articulate, but Kotkin never ceases to amaze. His understanding of issues challenges and expands any listener prepared to listen and think.
@TheDavidlloydjones 10 місяців тому
He's great on Russia, a dull thudd, right-wing barstool nut when he gets around to the United States.
@dimitrioskantakouzinos8590 10 місяців тому
Kotkin is impressive, but also a neocon.
@dannyv2468va2 9 місяців тому
@@dimitrioskantakouzinos8590 He is in no way a neocon He lays out the causes of the present situation.
@jannichi6431 9 місяців тому
Any interviewee that expands on the given question is okay by me.
@andyreznick 10 місяців тому
Fascinating. Thanks. Looking forward to part two.
@CuriousPersonUSA 10 місяців тому
Fascinating discussion. Kotkin and Schell discussing this important topic is such a treat! I am glad you decided to make it a 2 part and cant't wait for the next one!
@stephenohara3014 10 місяців тому
Amazing interview. I can't wait to hear the second half. There is never enough Stephen Kotkin content out there to meet the demand. This was my introduction to Orville Schell. I look forward to hearing more from him.
@edwardfowle2404 10 місяців тому
OMG!!! Two of the greatest intellectuals our world has created!! Fascinating. Love it!!
@KathysGuess 9 місяців тому
I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed this 2 part! Both are gems, their historical significance is amazing. I’m just overwhelmed by their knowledge of history. I could listen all day to the three of you. Thank you for moderating this conversation in such a timely manner to bring historical context for these dangerous times👍🇺🇦🙏🏼🇺🇸🙏🏼 P.S. please do it again soon. I feel we’ve only scratched the surface of this topic.
@MarcosElMalo2 10 місяців тому
A half hour is too short.
@trytwicelikemice3190 10 місяців тому
He mentions in the intro, the conversation was longer and will be released in two parts.
@6663000 10 місяців тому
Way too short.
@tonycamacho7473 10 місяців тому
Fascinating. Great to hear from knowledgeable people who, are more information scientists rather than individuals that have an ax to grind, are sensationalists, and seem to be fine people. Thank you for the segment. Looking forward to the following segments.
@MandalayMoore33 10 місяців тому
LOVE Stephen Kotkin and I say that as someone who's extremely difficult to please. Now, where's part II?
@6663000 10 місяців тому
17:05 Mr. Kotkin saying the word "youths" is great. I almost feel as though he said it with a smile on his face. I think he knows what people will be thinking. Haha
@kempfkempfkempf 10 місяців тому
ukposts.info/have/v-deo/gKVpqI5peXd1kp8.html
@KT-sl4js 10 місяців тому
lol!
@christophercousins184 10 місяців тому
Fantastic conversation, thanks so much and looking forward to more.
@dro355 9 місяців тому
I love how all these heavy-handed leaders dont ask what their people want and do that. They do what they want
@Sanctimonium 10 місяців тому
8:24 "you know the way people get tapped on the back of the shoulder at Yale to run the United States" 😂
@willdon.1279 10 місяців тому
What an immense illumination of the two leaders, so critical of where the world is today. Presented in a way my old brain could understand. I had simply thought Putin was afraid his own people would have more comparisons of how many ex-Soviets dealt with corruption - much better than his embedded Kleptocracy. Now, only part of the story. Splendid that we have minds like this to help. I remember, when our Brexit catastrophe was unfolding, a pro Brexiteer, Gove, said “Britain is sick of experts” I enjoyed one response - "well, I’m volunteering to save some money for the NHS by offering my services as his next surgeon" (from a journalist I presume?) 🙂
@stevesmith8155 10 місяців тому
Thank you all. Illuminating. Understanding is so crucial. I look forward to next parts....
@gaoxiaen1 10 місяців тому
Stephen Kotkin doesn't appear on UKposts nearly enough!
@gaoxiaen1 10 місяців тому
Lenin was anti-colonialist/anti-imperialist towards Eastern Europe, Africa, and North and South America, but was certainly colonialist and imperialist towards his own East. The eastern minority "republics" didn't and don't want Moscow's dictatorial rule, oppression, and conscription, especially the Gulags.
@kreek22 10 місяців тому
Pure nonsense. Lenin was so eager to colonize Poland that he invaded Poland before he had won the Russian Civil War. The Poles crushed his invasion.
@chrisfreebairn870 10 місяців тому
The USSR was a Russian colonial enterprise; the Ukrainians, released from Polish Lithuanian colonisation resisted it violently, but lost. They had reason to believe they'd escaped Russian dominance after 1991, but by 2014 Putin was clearly not going to let that happen without a fight. Ukraine was not ready then militarily, nor was the West politically to back them; hopes for Russia & China developing as global partners superseded concerns for Ukraine - or just the economic benefits of doing business with both. By 2022, the USA & Europe were ready to respond to Putin's continued aggression, with guilt about 2014 & frustration with China's double game, key elements in the resolve to act decisively at this time. This is in effect a proxy war between China & the USA, with Russia as the useful idiot & Ukraine the pawn that can become a king if it can survive the gauntlet & get to the other side; well a princeling, at least.
@eugeney4892 10 місяців тому
Brilliant minds! Well done and keep this series up!
@RichardRonnback 10 місяців тому
Really looking forward to the second part!
@seanmellows1348 10 місяців тому
Great stuff, look forward to the second part.
@Dogsnark 10 місяців тому
Fascinating! I’m very eager to hear the second half of the interview.
@Main.Account 10 місяців тому
Great insights…can’t wait for part II
@PC-ee7tz 9 місяців тому
The best! Thank you!
@sbaumgartner9848 10 місяців тому
Terrific. I'm looking forward to the second interview.
@williambamann1845 9 місяців тому
I could listen to these guys for hours and hours
@joannamoore4477 10 місяців тому
I will listen to anything from Stephen
@gaoxiaen1 10 місяців тому
Too short. I can't wait for part two.
@bottomhat2534 10 місяців тому
Simply exceptional. I'll need to listen to it a few more times.
@widanarallage 10 місяців тому
It’s interesting to hear the western interpretation of the data points. Thank you for bringing these options forward. Hiran
@kbone8137 9 місяців тому
What an excellent duo to have on and compare notes on their respective foci of studies. Thoroughly enjoyed. I would love to hear them discuss in more depth HOW the allure of communism was likely fashioned by each of their respective countries to make it pallatable to any extent they tried (i.e., the culturo-philosophical bent of the societies). Here, they primarily looked at the historical settings, but there would be some wonderfully nuanced interpretations that they could provide considering the in-depth and brilliant clarity on the cultures, politics, history, etc. Thank you for providing the venue. Would LOVE to hear more!
@ceceliablair9177 9 місяців тому
Claiming a victim identity succeeds both as a power-seeking move as well as a claim for morality. You get power plus the status of being moral.
@muskduh 9 місяців тому
Thanks for the audio presentation.
@istvancsorgo3840 10 місяців тому
Thank you.
@juerbert1 10 місяців тому
Powerfully portrayed, congratulations !😮😊
@martavdz4972 10 місяців тому
Good points! They also explain the rift between Russia and Europe, including most Slavic-speaking countries. Most Slavic-speaking countries - unlike Russia - have the same experience as the rest of Europe. Europe is a bunch of small and middle-sized countries who fought each other for 1.000 years. And now, with just a few exceptions, are fed up to their teeth with war. If you're American - imagine 1.000 years of civil wars and school shootings everywhere. Everyone is surrounded by neighbours whom he has wronged and who have wronged him. We know history very well but we usually don't bring it up in a negative way, because it would be like "What about what your country did to my country in the 19th century?!" "But what about YOUR country did to my country in the 18th century?" "And what did YOUR country do to MY country in the 17th century?!?!?"..... It would never end, so we just choose to ignore it and look forward instead. Russia is a younger country, it doesn't have this super-long history of wars, so it isn't tired of it yet; nor does it have the need to keep balance between neighbours of roughly the same size. Russia has been trying to use this to sew discord among European nations. But its success is very limited, because it doesn't understand that there are so DARNED MANY historical wrongs we could hold against each other. So we don't easily get emotionally involved in one particular one.
@chrisfreebairn870 10 місяців тому
Snyder says the 'tired of war' narrative is a convenient fiction, that 'Europe' is the remedy of small states that lost their overseas empires being inviable; Russia, unable to build a maritime empire, built a land one, & unable to export the communist revolution globally, the Russians colonised their own subjects instead - with collectivisation. Much of what Russia says is pure self justification, bluff & bluster; they've resented the West for centuries; their problem is geographic & political, but they can't admit that, so they invent the grand civilization & victimhood narrative as a distraction. Also, they can wage war without political consequence bc their apparatus of political repression is so effective. I think your conception is wrong.
@thefisherking78 9 місяців тому
That was SO GOOD 😊👍
@W.Khairi 10 місяців тому
Really enjoyed the insights and discussion, Many Thanks.
@mja4wp 10 місяців тому
Jonathan D.T. Ward had access to CCP documentation and writes about it in his new work, The Decisive Decade: 'American grand Strategy for Triumph over China'. Dr Kotkin spoke about digging down and finding the aims and goals of the CCP ideology and Ward does a nice job of revealing that.
@richardfox2865 9 місяців тому
Excellent, discussion.
@j.d.snyder4466 10 місяців тому
Epic intellectual discourse! Thank you for posting it on YT. I know a little about Russian and Ukrainian history and Chinese history from my graduate studies. I know and respect Schell's work but IMO he overstates the Leninist lens on the Chinese victimhood. With its millennial culture and history that is embodied in its self-reference as the Middle Kingdom, that is, the center of the universe, Leninism isn't required for the Chinese to feel victimized by western imperialism. Their impeccable kingdom was pecked at and bleeding throughout most of the 19th century. It's somewhat ironic that the Chinese kingdom demise from dry rot came 6 years before the Bolshevik revolution in 1917.
@iguana1677 9 місяців тому
An above-the-rim type quality discussion.
@wegder 9 місяців тому
Fantastic discussion
@nerva- 10 місяців тому
Interesting how Kotkin, like so many others, doesn't seem to be aware of the fact Deng Xiaoping actually TRIED both economic and POLITICAL liberalization early in his reign, but like Mao's experiments with allowing more speech, it quickly degenerated into ever-increasing criticism of the CCP, followed by a crackdown. Deng then avoided further loosening, but when Zhao Ziyang took the reins he tried his own experiment with allowing more political freedoms, which culminated in Tienanmen Square and his own removal from office. So, the Chinese actually had far more experience with this than the USSR -- Deng was far more like Gorbachev than people realize, but the difference was Deng pulled back in time for the CCP to retain control. It was Gorbachev who didn't learn from Deng's failed experiment with political liberalization.
@snslifestyleorg 9 місяців тому
That's the genius of Deng, making sure democracy was introduced gradually and not at the expense of the collapse of China like the USSR.
@HughFromAlice 9 місяців тому
Very perceptive big pic level comments that were highly thought provoking. Make sure to listen to part 2 !!!
@keesdevos4816 10 місяців тому
great references
@SafeSpaceCafe 10 місяців тому
Sweeet, a fantastico podcast this I know this will be...
@seventhapex 10 місяців тому
why two parts?
@suewong6833 10 місяців тому
My friend told me that Xi came from peasant class and hated corrupt officials. This video is quite informative
@d0lvl0 9 місяців тому
When's part 2?!
@michaelhenault1444 10 місяців тому
First Rate Discussion 😊
@Michael-tz7tj 10 місяців тому
Kotkin Nation!
@user-ky8pj1bj9o 9 місяців тому
These are still western perspectives, which are not difficult to find in the media. Although Schell is supposedly a China expert, he lacks sympathy for the Chinese perspective and only wants to see China become more like the west. This puts a fundamental limitation on his understanding of China. To better understand other people and civilisations around the world, we need more perspectives from the actual people we are trying to understand, instead of relying mainly on analysis and interpretations from western experts.
@johnd2058 10 місяців тому
21:30 I propose we call Kotkin's framing 'The Ninety Years' War' for differentiation.
@beback_ 10 місяців тому
23:33 "The Mullahs don't represent Persian civilization through the centuries." Couldn't have said it better. As an Iranian, it frustrates me to no end when westerners equate "our culture" with Islam and a fanatical interpretation of Islam for that matter. It really does play into the hand of the mullahs' regime.
@Leshic2 9 місяців тому
Iranian friends of mine feel the same way.
@rezzob 10 місяців тому
Interest and prosperity of their people
@jessiejb4684 9 місяців тому
Kotkin is a great story teller and makes a good living telling westerns that coincidentally all geopolitical competitors to the u.s. empire are uniquely bad, while we are always good. This only validates our moral right to demonize, set out to destabilize within and around other country’s borders, arm rebels, wage proxy war, or even direct war. The rest of the world sees this judgment entirely differently. Perhaps we are the baddies? Tragically, the u.s. rivals some of the world’s historical monsters in causing the death/slaughter of populations. An unpopular statement, and admittedly, an inherently repulsive idea, however, if you think critically about it, there is truth. We must look inward instead of continuously looking for monsters abroad and using guys like kotkin to reassure ourselves of our morality and righteousness.
@alanaadams7440 9 місяців тому
I would love to know the difference between communism in China and communism in Russia what are the policy differences
@steve-real 10 місяців тому
wow! that was so good. As an average dude i just can’t imagine thinking from their perspective because it just doesn’t cross my mind. I’m too busy doing my own thing.
@VincentAutos 10 місяців тому
Great interview. i like both of them. Especially, respect Schell's dedication on China study. However he has a too fixed mindset. He always complain why Xi does not do revenge on CCP. Xi has a sense of history. He do what he think is good for the country and the history, not much personal revenge. How can a sparrow know the ambition of a swan. 燕雀焉知鸿之志。I wish Schell can make great contribution in the history in the future.
@2000brettpaul 10 місяців тому
"Mao put numbers up on the board, that Hitler never put up, never mind the British". Kotkin's incredulous voice here makes me chuckle.
@chrisfreebairn870 10 місяців тому
Yep, loved that point about selective victimhood, such a pathetic self serving excuse for building nationalistic anti westernism as a political tool; "the Chinese ppl may decide not to buy Australian beef, wine, coal, lobsters, timber or barley". The Chinese ppl are far more inclined to resist authority than the Russians - hence welding doors closed during covid, bc the CCP does not provide the safety net that the Russian state does via state enterprises etc, it's work or starve. The CCP knows this well, & the anti zero covid uprising showed Xi just how far 'Xi Xinping thought' could be relied upon when shit was hitting the fan. This nationalistic manipulation of the public through fear, & the impact on government it can have is clearly evident in the USA right now too, with Fox & the GOP shit scared to alienate tRumps base (hoping while verbally bashing them that the DOJ is going to save them by taking him out). Russia & the CCP have tools available to manipulate, manage & suppress such civic emotion that the USA does not have, which may explain why they stoke that fire to greater heights. They're both shit scared of it though, hence the brutality of the crackdowns when they're deemed necessary. It's all such a damned waste of time, resources & innocent human lives, consuming the future with myths of the past.
@dkoz8321 10 місяців тому
Prof. Kotkin's side hustle is as Joe Pesci voice impersenator.
@nathanngumi8467 10 місяців тому
Word.
@Mr.Altavoz 10 місяців тому
Would love to hear what professor Kotkins has to say on what happened in Moscow 🎉🎉🎉
@yi4913 10 місяців тому
Modern identity politics is all about being victims.
@martavdz4972 10 місяців тому
For some strange reason, that doesn't work for central Europe much - Austria, Slovenia, Poland etc. I'm from Czechia and talking about being the victim isn't that common in our politics. Except for one politician, and he isn't Czech. Some Czechs watch Russia's victimizing of itself and idealizing of its "grand" past with contempt. We know history very well, but look into the future. Russia is immeasurably larger and more powerful than we are, it has potential and natural resources, and yet it looks into history and views itself as a victim? Wtf? Czechia used to be basically a colony of Austria, yet we don't hold a grudge and don't feel like victims, even though there was some persecution from Austria in the 17th-19th centuries. But our relationship with Austria today is equal and friendly. I think that's the difference between Russia and most of Europe - Europe is fed to its teeth with war. We don't bring it up while talking, because it would be like "What about what your country did to my country in the 19th century?!" "But what about YOUR country did to my country in the 18th century?" "And what did your country do to my country in the 17th century?!?!?" It would never end, so we just choose to ignore it and look forward instead. Russia doesn't have this attitude.
@kreek22 10 місяців тому
It is about the pretense of victimhood being used to attain power. This moral game originated in Christianity, but was perverted by Marxism.
@canadiangemstones7636 10 місяців тому
Nice to see Andy Warhol still weighing in on politics.
@tocreatee3585 10 місяців тому
some people want to draw conclusion from evidences, other people look for evidence that support conclusion they want.
@cymbalspecialist 10 місяців тому
To the last question Mr. Schell presents, asking what is it about the eternal culture of victimization that appeals to the Chinese, in my opinion it provides a deflection, a diversion to direct hatred at the "other", thereby "legitimizing" the Party's very existence. When it comes to the people's anger regarding the myriad of problems in China, there's only one party responsible, and that's the CCP: when you control every single aspect of people's lives, you are ultimately responsible for both the good and the bad. There is so much that falls into the bad category, due to the CCP, that it's essential for the Party to convince everyone to place all blame for all ills toward "external forces".
@locutusmdv 10 місяців тому
Seeing the West as upstarts compared to the ancient Eastern empires is a lack of understanding that the West is but a continuation of ancient Greece and then of the Roman republic and empire. Thus 2500 years old. The West not only is old, but is exploratory and curious. The East is conservative and closed.
@olivierbeltrami 10 місяців тому
The audio podcast version of this is only 6 minutes long. Can it be fixed ?
@foreignaffairs 10 місяців тому
Hi. Thank you for your question. Can you provide more details, please? What platform are you using for podcast listening?
@rymnbn 10 місяців тому
Fantastic stuff 👏🙌
@toughr1506 9 місяців тому
Who is the host?
@lucasvarela9632 10 місяців тому
Robing Hilton is very cooool…..
@p.d.stanhope7088 10 місяців тому
Both countries have a long history of antagonistic behavior toward their neighbors. They will act the same way on a global basis in the 21st Century.
@kreek22 10 місяців тому
What countries don't have long histories of antagonistic behavior toward their neighbors?
@ridethecurve55 10 місяців тому
I'll pass on this cast, to wait for the next episode which will (hopefully) include the latest event around the attempted coup in Russia. Looking forward to it.
@tb8865 10 місяців тому
If Vladimir Putin doesn't own the legacy of Russian civilization, what does that say about the United States government and American civilization? Would Peter the Great's assessment of the state of modern Russia be more or less hostile than George Washington's reaction to the America of today?
@delta5297 10 місяців тому
If Xi wants respect (it's too late for Putin) then he should undertake democratic reforms. Being an economic and military superpower means nothing if your rule is unjust.
@snslifestyleorg 9 місяців тому
Wrong. China will introduce democracy at its own pace, not by Western standard. China's main priority is to eradicate poverty rather than political freedom.
@noneone3310 10 місяців тому
6:00 since all of that are just speculation and guess about someone's mind and psyche, the description of young XI's psyche is more likely what Mir.Stephen Kotkin imagines XI to be, or prefers XI to be, or what he himself would be in that kind of circumstance, or all above. so it in fact reveals something that not necessarily about XI, but about Mir.Stephen Kotkin himself. interesting.
@melodymaker135 10 місяців тому
I didn’t know Andy Warhol was still alive
@pepsee0 10 місяців тому
Simple...no one person should control all power end of discussion!
@anwiycti1585 10 місяців тому
One more person closely ties with these two, DJT ! He comes handy if you try to understand either one or both : D
@dgib1694 10 місяців тому
My god! I just read M. Scholl's article "Life of the Party" Recommended in the description above, and its cultural bias is unbelievable (as well as being extraordinarily parochial for a foreign affair text). I understand better the interview in this video.
@jimmynickles828 10 місяців тому
“Not even Mao and Stalin…” Are you nuts?
@alvin8391 10 місяців тому
Stephen Kotkin and Stephen Cohen were both professors at Princeton's Russian department, but they were very different in their political views. Professor Cohen, who died a few years ago, was independent of the establishment represented in Foreign Affairs. His independent views presented a more honest view of Russia, in my opinion. Kotkin is, I suspect, an intellectual tool of the US effort to suppress Russia's recovery from the collapse of the USSR as a sovereign state.
@Leshic2 9 місяців тому
24:37 - Great explanation of the victimization mentality, and the "You hurt the feelings of the Chinese People"
@deandimattia4516 10 місяців тому
🎉🎉🎉
@ppprzybylll 10 місяців тому
more
@XE1GXG 10 місяців тому
Although interesting, the context of THIS conversation must be taken into account: both of these scholars emerge from the gringoi mindset.
@adrianosverko6601 10 місяців тому
What drives the haughtiness of the neocons and neolibs?
@arktseytlin 10 місяців тому
In a network, central coordinating nodes that control communication get outsize power. In the globalized ocean-based trade, the natural nerve centers of such networks were the British and then the Americans. But that is beside the point, because the amount of incompetency, corruption and sheer waste that totalitarian regimes produce completely dwarf any intrinsic disadvantages to them in such systems. If Russia invested in itself instead of letting a small group of oligarchs squander the wealth on yachts, palaces, and wars, they would be much farther ahead. Which btw China has proven.
@gregoriogurda3420 10 місяців тому
July 13th ?!? Why so looong!
@RasAlHaq 10 місяців тому
Loved the point about anti-Western rhetoric coming from a Marxist-Leninist party. 😂
@Lizardo451 10 місяців тому
Colonization was a good thing.
@daviddunn8852 10 місяців тому
First time I ever heard Orville Schell speak Chinese: 傷害中國人的感情。Hurt Chinese people's feelings. His pronunciation is quite good! Reminds me of this hysterical video in Mandarin done by Malaysian Chinese satirizing this sentiment : ukposts.info/have/v-deo/ZYKha4uHmZ5203k.html 玻璃心 - Fragile。
@sirrodneyffing1 10 місяців тому
Mass murderers feel "shut out and marginalised" 🤔
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