What do you think about the Blue Wizards? Think they’ll show up in the Amazon series?

I know what happened to the Blue Wizards!: One made a sword for a scrawny kid called Arthur, and the other one bought a castle and started teaching high school.

I really like the second version of the Blue Wizards. Because not only does it make them better people who succeeded in their mission, but it also makes the easternlings or Middle Earth more human as well, having not all of them fall to evil.

I like how Tolkien talks about his works as if he was a part of them. I'm not sure what happened to the blue wizards, I heard from a guy who heard from a guy etc etc.

I think you're one of the blue wizards that is still helping us to know more about middle earth.

I like the idea that that did work against Sauron, but also got a little distracted with their own interests. Also, since they're the only two wizards to share a colour, I think of them as being close friends and working together, which would have helped them both not to fall to evil.

Out of all the Tolkien lore and characters, the blue wizards are the ones I wish we had more stories about.

I love how Tolkien spoke as if he was channeling this other world, rather than wholly create it. It's a good practice for fantasy writing, I think.

I think a whole new movie series could be produced about the blue wizards in the east without it interfering much at all with the events in LOTR.

You know you're a very beloved author when you can openly admit "lol I have no clue what happened. Never thought about that, guess I missed that while writing." and people still respect you or even more.

The Kingdoms in the East might have had a struggle as epic as Gondor and Arnor.

You said Gandalf was the only wizard who remained faithful to his task and the sole Istari to return to Valinor. Gandalf actually returned twice, the first time was when he died and the second by ship. Maybe the Blue wizards also died performing their tasks and returned to Valinor the same way Gandalf did the first time but remained there because they weren't needed anymore.

I generally wished that the eastern and southern parts of Middleearth would have received more attention by Tolkien. But maybe it's good as it is because it pokes your imagination and fantasy.

The idea of the Blue Wizards being successful in their mission to spread disunity among Sauron's followers seems like a more meaningful way to go to me. This way not only do they stay loyal to their initial cause, but, what's more important - they actually have important influence on the world they're a part of. It makes the world feel bigger and more alive knowing that there are forces at play that directly influence what is going on even if we never actually see them. It also makes Easterlings more human, the idea that there are at least groups of them that would not follow a "dark" lord and choose to oppose him, forge their own destiny without a cruel master whipping them into obedience. That would also makes the fate of these people even more tragic, since the very beginning of time, they were left unprotected from the threat of Morgoth, not only did they have to deal with the world they came to inhabit all by themselves, while Elves had Valar taking care of them, they also had to suffer dominion of the cruel demi-god and even after thousands of years of bleak and grim fate there were still at least pockets of them who'd still hold their head high and refuse to submit to the will of a being the power of whom they most likely couldn't even comprehend.

Easily the number 1 Lord of the rings UKposts channel. Easily.

Who else thinks nerdo of the rings is the slayer of darkness?! This is the best blue wizard video ive ever seen by far

I’ve been playing Magic: The Gathering for so long I instinctively clenched my fists when I saw the words “blue Wizards”.

Just from the names I could see Darkness Slayer being more militant and trying to arm the men of the east against the forces of Sauran while East Helper was trying more to support their well being and lead them away from the evils they had been taught. One was a crusader, and the other a missionary, but both had the same goal of helping the eastern realms, just each in their own ways.

One possible reading might be that the second version of the story is the more accurate, while the first version is a reading made by some scholar inhabitants of middle-earth. They knew the blue wizards came to middle earth, and assumed they came along with the others. When the blue wizards brought "help to the few tribes of men that had rebelled from melkor-worship", these western scholars with their biased view of the easterlings, assumed the blue wizards were evil or malicious and interpreted this as them creating "secret cults".

I like to believe that they were the eastern versions of Gandalf, bringing hope and support to those who opposed Sauron. Perhaps they stayed behind after Sauron was defeated to continue to aid them? After all, there must have been great confusion and strife in that region after Sauron's fall.

I have seen a particularly fun fan reconciliation of the two fates of the Blue Wizards, with the suggestion that one of the two fell to Darkness, whilst the other remained loyal, and that the two killed each other in the East. A tragic end for two who were imagined often as twins.

I love the idea of Sauron pouring over maps during the Siege of Barad-dûr, trying to think of a way to escape looming defeat. And he looks at the east and sees all the markers representing the countless Easterling forces loyal to him, but knows he can't call them to Mordor or else the Blue Wizards and their followers will sweep in and liberate those lands, and then he'll be even worse off than he is now.

I think that the second story is a lot more realistic, since the forces of the east don’t overpower the armies of the west in lotr. Since Gandalf is the only wizard to complete his goal, my theory is that the blue wizards somehow died before the time came to return to valinor

Hm, I've never heard the second version of the tale, but gotta say I like it a little bit more. Although I always somehow assumed that they played more positive role in the east. Also, I really like their Orient-like portrayals at 0:10!

I find it very intriguing that Tolkien wrote about these matters as if it was not something he created himself, but instead that it was a separate world that already existed, and he merely tried interpreting. He really was one-of-a-kind. If only he was an elf and could live forever to keep writing about this phenomenal world...

It feels like Alatar was of great power while Pallando was of great knowledge, more like the classic image of the brute and the scholar in ancient Greece.

Really hoping the stranger in Rings of Power is a blue wizard.

The last few sentences when you talk about Tolkien and the mystery, even to him, of middle earth are what to me puts him on a par with Shakespear. They both tapped into something that was beyond them, and thereby comes the greatness of their work.

I’ll tell you this my fellow Nerd, I’m almost positive after watching this that The Stranger in the series is one of the blue wizards

The line saying the ensured that the easterlings did not outnumber the men of the west proves they did have success in causing a rebellion or a war at least

Given that Tolkien for real might have inspired himself with the history of Europe, I would say that history of two Blue Wizards seems quite similar to the history of Saint Cyril and Methodius, or 'Apostles to the Slavs' as they are referred to. They did bring knowledge from the West to the East and helped develop alphabets that greatly influenced Eastern Europe's culture.

Make a video on Cirdan. I love that he is the witness of the whole middle earth history.

In LOTRO Easterling has two magic orders: Brotherhood of the Mind and Brotherhood of the Spirit. Both wearing blue clothes. Also when talking about East of ME always worth to mention two "lost" dwarven tribes Ironfists and Stiffbeards. In LOTRO history of these two tribes are interlink with the Easterling story. And one last thing: Great Plague started east of the Mordor and I presume this event was devastating to people live here, even more then in Eriador.

For many years i've avoided this type of speculation because i fear it will lead to despair 🤣 i have always wanted to know more about the wizards and their journey east. Thank you for this. I enjoyed it.

I only very recently gained interest in the lore of the Lord of the Rings. A month ago, I didn’t even know there were blue wizards or of their order or the Maia or anything. This was the best video I’ve seen on the Blue Wizards. Very informative and cool.

Love your channel. My favorite are the “travels” videos because reading the books/movie, it’s easy to forget where certain characters are at certain moments.

I really feel like I'm alive and in Tolkien's world just watching these videos. The art pictures the map the music everything fits so fluidly. Amazing work dude keep it up ☺️👌🏻😋

To me it seems like none of the wizards failed except for saruman. Blue wizards trying to stop dark worshippers and while radagast protected nature, even if it seemed like he was distracted, I don't think he was since one of the valar had him go there and it seems like radagast was protecting nature because no one else was. Gandalf just had the most active role.

Great channel and a brilliant video. Not only am I having my knowledge of the legendarium of Tollers refreshed, but I am also learning things that I didn't know before watching.

Hello, just found out about you and your amazing channel. I come from watching 4 videos in a row (sauron getting the one ring, gandalf taking it, the istaris' and now this one), I can't get enough of it! Marvellous work, greetings from Barcelona.

Awesome video 🤘💚

Love the map videos.. blue wizards have always been a awesome mystery to me 💙 hope there featured in some form on screen at some point

Man thank you so much for all your hard work! You have such wonderful content and exposition.

Thanks for showing the reference book covers in the meantime as it's very helpful.

A blue wizards tv show about their adventures in the east would be awesome.

I think the way they are so mysterious would allow for an interesting game or TV series. Again, awesome video!

This channel is giving me life. Thank you for diving into lore and history

Your videos are so interesting thank you! We'd love to see one solely focusing on the history of the Haradrim and the Easterlings one day 😊

By the way, speaking of Saruman's reference to the Blue Wizards, he mentions "The crowns of the Seven Kings" Which kings are these? If he means the Kings of Men, there were nine, not seven. Did he mean the Dwarf Lords? Do some of the Nine Kings not count, as I'm fairly sure Khamùl wasn't a king? WHO DID HE MEAN?

I love your videos, i watch pretty much all of the Tolkien community and yours unique. 🌌

Loving how deep into detail you are going with these videos. Just discovered your channel a week ago and already one of my top Lotr channel! Thank you.

I love the way you interpret the characters. Awesome video. What is the song used in the video, at the end especially? I love it so much. It's so comforting. I wish I could listen to that in a playlist

I really really hope Amazon will take the route that the stranger in the rings of power is indeed a blue wizard and not Gandalf.

We're almost assuredly getting them in the Amazon series, I hope they aren't just Gandalf in blue. Spending all that time in the East they should be more rugged, more Machiavellian, more cynical. Cycling through losing and regaining their way amidst all the evil as well as cults being set up for them in spite of instead of by them would also help reconcile their two depictions.

I just got into your videos (I just found them) but I have learned so much and every one I find is more amazing then the last! Thank you for these! Your amazing!

Always found these two characters very fascinating. Wish we had more on them although that leaves us room to dream I guess.

It would be interesting to see a movie about one of the wars that Aragorn and Eomer faught later against the men of the East and bring in the Blue Wizards in that kind of movie set mostly to the East of Gondor etc. Would be great fun.

Beautiful video, man!

Just found your channel, found my tribe. Thank you so much, 48 years old and have been passionately engaged in Tolkien’s work from an early age and never had an outlet to express the passion I have for the subject. You cover all the details I’ve always wondered about. I look forward to watching your body of work here on UKposts. Thanks again.

Many thanks for such amazing and high quality content!

Very interesting! The Blue Wizards have always been so mysterious to me... Thanks for the video! I also love the music you used around 04:40, very atmospheric! Where is it from? Cheers =) !

Dude, you run such a brilliant channel. Thank you very much!

This is a great contribution. Thank you for the video.

I JUST ASKED FOR THIS IN YOUR LAST VIDEO AND HERE IT IS!!! I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!

What interests me is that Tolkien himself considered his world to be unfinished and had hoped that others would come after him and write these stories. These "plot threads" would be a very easy way for someone to do just that; maybe that was his intent. I'd have to say it would be an incredibly talented author to do Tolkien's legacy any justice but I'd be excited for some to try. There are so many untold stories just waiting to be found.

I absolutely love their depiction in the second Image you've used with them having Sikh and Vietnamese headwear and it perfectly fits with the inspiration of "Eastrons and Southrons" peoples from Middle East/Southeast Asian. I know the topic of diversity in LOTR is highly contested and I never knew why, because Tolkien has explicitly made a world really diverse. I would love to see the Haradrim, Rhunic, and Khandish peoples. I play a lot of Third Age Reforged and I always liked the idea that perhaps there would be a rebellious speech mirroring Aragorn Speech at the Black Gate only with the Men of the East, with the Blue Wizards aiding them.

Thank you. This is the most I’ve heard about the 2 Blues. It would be fun if they showed up again, with some of there allies from the East.

Great video, the blue wizards and their (variable) history is fascinating. Since you mentioned Saruman's quote to Gandalf, I wonder: can you also make a video about the infamous "seven kings"?

It's by Tolkien's brilliant design that he has characters like this to give the story such depth. By giving us so little knowledge of them, and shrouding them in mystery, it creates this perpetual intrigue into the story....

Maybe the Amazon show will have them

During the years when I was heavily invested into Lord of the Rings Online, I played a Lore-Master (Wizard) and modelled him after what I imagined of the Blue Wizards. I've always been fascinated by those characters and the mystery that surrounds them. Great upload!

Great channel, I'm binge listening at work.👍

The Blue Wizards succeeded in the Second Age, leaving in the beginning of the Third Age to return to The West. It is decreed by Eru through Manwe and the remaining Valar that the Blue Wizards will make their own choice whether to or not return to Middle Earth with the others intending to be sent. While Alatar originally wanted to, going with Saruman, he then convinced Pallando to join him, continuing their tasks, upon which, he agreed. Because of this it was determined that Radagast would go, serving Yavanna. Lastly, because he knew fear of Sauron went Gandalf. When Khamul began to discover his strength of power from his extensive use of the ring bestowed upon him by Sauron, the Blue Wizards in unison with those they guided to overthrow Khamul which sent him west to Mordor fleeing his kingdom at the hands of Morinethar and Romestamo. While he was not the first corrupted King of the East that had fled from them, Khamul was the most powerful of those whom joined Sauron in Mordor. Later, When Sauron fell, the Blue Wizards whom were in the FAR East had far to travel coming home, the distance of the east being greater than that of the the west may have returned Un-heralded as all had left before. With the "Magic" that existed in Middle Earth failing, any means they may have previously had of expedited travel was gone. They joined their brother Olorin in the West, returning to the Valar as they previously had unlooked for but ever welcomed...

Another cracking video, great work again buddy 👍🏻

Your videos are absolutely amazing, thank you and keep it up :)

My theory is that the two blue wizards were a couple, Orome, the hunter chooses Alatar, probably because he is a great hunter or fighter. ( Probably Tolkien was inspired by the greco-roman mythologies and in the same vein as Alexander the Great with Hephaestion, a warrior that will not go to war without his other male partner, in which case they were also lovers, like David and Jonathan in the bible.) Alatar did not want to go without Pallando, he is the one who insists on Pallando going with him. In your other video on the Balrog, you mentioned that there were 3 or 7 of them, Sauron could have kept them 1 or 4 remaning in the east until the last fight. But at the fight of the Black Gate they were not there, they should have been there if they were still alive. So I think that the blue wizards might have 'helped' out the last battle by getting rid of the Balrogs and might have done it with the Silmaril that was thrown in the water. To fuse Tolkien's idea that they did not find Sauron and failed but then later in his letters he says that they contributed, my stance is that they did not want to find Sauron, maybe by fear that hey would end up like Saruman eventually, thus failing to their mission, which is why they did not cross over with Gandalf. Instead they sacrificed themselves in the killing of the last Balrogs, which would have greatly changed the battle of the Black Gate if the Balrogs had been there. Being in the east they knew that they could not find and kill Sauron themselves, and the east was many times the refuge of Sauron. I believe that their love between each other must have played a role in their choice. Similar to the story of Moses who did not get to go into the promised land because of the time that he made water come forth from the rock. Their sacrifice was the only way to get rid of the Balrogs and other daemons Sauron had. Similarly it killed them like Gandalf, but in their case they did not come back because they refused to find Sauron, failing in their mission, but at the same time had a huge role in getting rid of Sauron's biggest assets. (anyway something along those lines, I'd be curious to have your opinion) 🙂

Love how Tolkien writes his letters as though he's a historian finding this stuff rather than making it up

I wish they would do a series specifically focused on the Blue Wizards. And have them played by Patrick Stewart and Derek Jacobi.

Excellent point that the fact that there are mysteries and questions that remain unanswered gives Tolkien's creation the feel of reality. It's the same with the multiple versions of stories and the incompleteness of others, making them like real-world texts that have survived serendipitously in fragments while others have not, leading you the the "real events" behind the stories and fragments...that's a powerful evocation of a real world lost in the mists of time, which was exactly Tolkien's inspiration from the study of philology.

This is by far the best UKposts channel! In fact, I'm just opening UKposts to watch your content! Congratulations! keep going

I usually dismiss Tolkien's later changes and writings as just polluted of over-thought. The first account of The Blue Wizards is the most in line with the spirit of the original pen. As far as what happened to them? I think they were slain during The 3rd Age around the time Sauron declared himself in Mordor. At that point in time I imagine them being Councilers to competing Kings and getting swept up in that region's politics. Pretty much forgetting their original purpose or at least holding it off. That's total head canon and my theory needs more fleshing out, but it's what I imagine happened to them.

The greatest story tellers leave room for their stories to grow within the minds that shall soon find and love them and then they too shall plant the ideas of the world and the story for future generations.. It is the greatest wish for the greatest story tellers for their stories to never stop being told.. even if they are off the beaten path from time to time it is a form of Immortal happiness to those that create these stories..

I like what the video game Third Age Total War did with the blue wizards, which is closer to the second version you talk about. In the game the Blue Wizards return from the far east with an army of the nomadic peoples they recruited. With this army they try to turn the people’s of Khand to fight against Mordor and the other Easterlings.

I love these videos so much thank you!

I like to imagine them having much the same role as Gandalf. Maybe each of them had a favorite people like Gandalf with the hobbits. I like to think of them giving wise counsel to good kings and queens and gathering knowledge. Maybe they were also pilgrims like Gandalf and moved humbly from place to place doing what good they could. Maybe they started a wonderful character, a woman this time, off on an adventure.

They would be perfect villains in "The New Shadow" :D

Darkness slayer.... just imagine a warrior wizard... how badass you has to be for being called that way

@Nerd of the Rings Always love watching your videos and intricate explanations. your telling is only improved by the beautiful music you put in your videos. Do you have the names of the pieces of music you put in this video?

I always wondered what happened to them, but I know why Tolkien left them a mystery, as to keep them more mysterious and interesting. Also, will you be doing one on Saruman? Great job!

I’m going with door #2, lol. It’s more hopeful & I like to think not every wizard (except Gandalf) failed in their duty. With this story, only Saruman fell into evil. Radagast simply lost sight of his task, but was never wicked at heart. I’d kind of like to see Rings of Power have an plotline that includes them causing trouble for Sauron out East at some point in the next 4 seasons, lol!

Absolutely love these videos, binge worth to say the least - amazing work!. You have an illustration that contains a map that includes Beleriand - I am having a hard time finding where to buy 1st age maps before the sundering - can you make any suggestions?

came after the last episode of Rings of Power. Well I thought the stranger was gandalf, but I think after watching this he is for sure a blue wizard and the best thing is there is not much details about them as you mention in the video, which gives the writers a chance to use their imagination, and I hope they don't ruin this.

I like to think they’re still out there in our modern world (given how Tolkien thought of Middle-Earth as a potential history of our world). Unless something incredibly powerful killed them I doubt they perished. The same thing goes for Radagast.

I think Tolkien came up with the later ideas not by changing his mind, but by actually more or less "researching" within the history of middle earth, which has been a rather common perspective of Tolkien regarding his work. He didn't necessarily want to redeem the blue wizards personally, he simply concluded that SOMEONE was obviously getting in Saurons way in the east, otherwise it couldn't be explained how Sauron was unable to overrun middle earth thousands of years ago. He then concluded that it makes sense that the two wizards were more successful than Tolkien initially wanted to give them credit for.

One of your best. You’re a true lore master!

What I like about the two blue Wizards is that they seemingly stayed together through their travels. Whereas each of the other Wizards broke off to focus on their own tasks the blue Wizards (who were friends to begin with) decided that they could do more good staying together as a duo. I'd love to hear stories of them journeying through the East as comrades with a millennia old rapport.

I think that a combination of the two versions would be a very interesting and tragic story. Perhaps they held true to their quest until around the time of LOTR, and got separated. Not being able to support each other and keep each other in check, they got corrupted by Easterlings. Maybe the easterlings worshiped them and they got filled with pride and decided to make their own cults, not working with Sauron, but no longer trying to stop him.

I prefer the idea that they "failed" in some way, as it makes their stories more interesting and bittersweet to me (and I like the idea of them being founders of cults of magic and/or spiritual traditions). I also like the idea that they were successful in swaying people away from Sauron and aided rebellions against him, yet I do not think such successes are incompatible with the idea that they were still not 100% true to their mission like Gandalf was. I also like to imagine that their colours are not the same hue of blue. One of them could be indigo and the other could be azure, for example.

Thank you for this video. They're 2 very intriguing characters about whom almost nothing is known for certain & you really managed to pull all the info together. All Istari are/were Maiar so, whether they travelled to Middle-earth at the same time or thousands of years apart, I guess they would have been known to one another in Aman. Perhaps Tolkien had the 2 blue wizards - or at least their lingering influence - in mind when he started to write "The New Shadow", which included revolutionary plots & secret cults?

My personal head canon is that the second version is the true version, and that the reason their names "darkness slayer" and "east helper" are so comically different is that they had very different approaches to saving the lands to the east. Alatar "darkness slayer" chose to stay in the near east and fight the cults of melkor, meanwhile Pallando "East helper" traveled to the far east to combat servants of sauron's attempts to corrupt the governments there (I would assume some sort of culture similar to ancient China). And thus they succeeded: Alatar by fighting the evil men amongst the Easterling and haradrim, and pallando by convincing the nations of the far east (most likely the most populous in middle earth) to at the very least stay out of the war (if not help by attacking the Easterling eastern front), ensuring the significantly more populous east wouldn't outnumber the west.