Another way to look at it is IF the Engineers in Prometheus are Engineered Clones (think Replicants) who are superior to their Creators.... (Planet 4 Guy's) then this would explain at first the intrigue into David and Sympathy the Engineer shown as he caressed Davids Hair... then the Anger towards Weyland and using his own Creation (Davids Head) to KILL Weyland...the Engineer had no choice in it, he realized the risk that Superior Sub Creations have, and knows David can read/communicate with the Engineers and use their Technology... so David had to be taken care of and then the Earth needed to be Destroyed

Life or not, he's sentient nonetheless.

just cuz there's no robot doesnt mean they dont have ai lol

@@davebear9825 nice thinking. reminds me a bit of dark forest theory in 3 body series 😁

​@thebanned2807 An abomination to natural law, huh? Did nature bestow this knowledge upon you, or did you conjure it up in your imagination? My money's on the latter.

Blame studio execs

Tbh, there wasn't much to enjoy in the later films of the franchise, outside of getting another taste of the world and looking nice.

I was irritated at the fact that those Covanant colonisers were unfazed at the fact that there was definitive proof that other life exists in the universe plus there was a freaking civilisation to prove it. For them ,it was like this discovery was nothing. They didnt even display any interest and curiosity whatsoever in planet 4.

What has Ridley Scott done to his franchise? 'Engineers" and 'Jesus Christ'? Why didn't he just create a new franchise. Even the origin story of the aliens we know in this franchise just demystifies them and makes them less scary. It's like him and other got high one day and kept going off on tangents.

I know there would be no movie without it happening, but humanity's 1st colony mission wouldn't deviate from their primary objective, because of hearing one person's rogue transmission. The whole story is littered in plot wholes.

Ridley Scott says they aren't the engineers!

Yes

Not only that but most importantly planet 4 was a habitable earth like planet that he ruined . Earth like planets don't grow on trees you know , such a waste !! 😒

@@zsolt7330 So he was attacking a people that he thought were the engineers?

the alien universe has many companies able to terraform planets relatively quick haha

They definitely left it open for another sequel

@@generaleerelativity9524 im hoping its a full ship of aliens to bring home....to earth. it would be messy....and you would see that smirk david has as he let them wipe out earth.

@@operatorsix6933 they were continuing their journey to Origae 6 at the end of Covenant so I doubt it. Maybe if they tied it into the Predator franchise that might work because that was pretty much what happened in AVP Requiem.

I wish they would expand the story of engineers and a film that ties the entire Alien/Predator universe.

But didn't Ridley say he hated the AVP movies because the Predators were not from the Alien universe

Like the biologist that pokes his finger at the small alien lifeform , film was broken from then on.

Prometheus was an utter disaster. Prime example of "The Idiot's Plot".

I loved Prometheus and was really excited to see covenant I don't think I've ever been that disappointed and annoyed they would just make another stupid aliens movie smh.

​​@@JohnSmith-fq7hjI mean have you seen how many "fans" that keeps demanding for more alien movie? I remember people hate Prometheus because it didn't have much alien scene, and when Ridley released Alien covenant people still hate it because their new excuse is that they want engineer lore story🌚. I think even if Ridley release the story about Shaw and David, most people would still hate it, so it's just gonna be a complain over and over again

same

I agree. same color and hair. that's it.

I was hoping there would be a voice of reason here in the comments. Thank you for restoring some modicum of my faith in humanity. They obviously weren't Engineers. The fact that they look completely different should have been a dead give away, but meh.... The two prequels are so misunderstood, it's staggering.

They were selected to be the heirs of the Engineers... So they would show up for those extra eggs and also head to planet 223 to meet the deacon who was their god and creator now returned

Agreed

I never got the impression that was their main planet.

@@bovineintervention276 it wasn't the main planet it was an outpost that sent the ship to whip us out for killing Jesus, so 2000 or 3000 years ago(can't remember the date of the movie). And honestly a movie on how the engineers fell, before David showed up would of been more interesting then what we got.

@@user-us5dr2qi2rten times more interesting

Earth is one of the engineers' seed worlds. They passed on their DNA there when our planet was in its infancy. The second planet was just a barren waste land where they set up bio weapon labs. You don't create world destroying weapons on your homeworld. The planet David destroyed is another seed world like Earth. The engineers had very long life spans in comparison to humans. But, they had become sterile. They could not reproduce normally. So, through science, they found a way to seed new worlds with their genetic material as a way of reproduction. Then, they would show up once a species like them spawns from their seeding process and would teach them their ways. Regarding the planet David destroyed, the engineers' seed children there accepted their teachings, and the engineers would show up every once in a while to check in. Earth, the humans, while in appearance, were similar to the engineers, were nothing like them. Too violent and aggressive. The engineers tried to be patient but in the end decided we were nothing like them and that they should pull the plug on earth. From their perspective, they were responsible for the destruction our species could inflict on the galaxy as we were their creation. Once they made that decision, they went to send their world ending weapon to earth. When the bioweapon got out and thwarted their plan, our destruction was never delivered to us. As to why no other engineers came, I don't know. Perhaps they were the last. Or that was the only bio weapon world they had, and it was simply too dangerous to go back. As exemplified by what happened when we went there. So, regarding your question. Those were not engineers, not really. Even if they were, they were not immune to their own bio weapon. Though I think they would have noticed the incoming ship was a war ship with world destroying bio weapons on board and would have likely shot it out of the sky. This gives further credence to the notion that those were not engineers. Also, just look at them. They look as much like an engineer as humans do.

Looked like a seeded planet like Earth.

no other advanced technology other than that honking great levitating engineer ship docking station right in the middle of the city you mean? I'll give you that it might not have been the homeworld but its clearly an engineer city/colony at the very least.

@@johntowers1213 maybe they left it there? and was revered as relic? I agree with Erik. they look too simple.

I agree. Maybe their scociety has a cast system, or maybe that was just one of the words. It was underwhelming if it was really suppose to be the main planet of the engineers.

There's a strong chance that indeed the Engineers seeded this planet and that the occupants revered the Engineers as ref: Aliens V Predator - Sebastian de Rosa reads the Hieroglyphs which tells of the story where Predators guided indigenous people to build shrines to praise them and offer themselves freely fir sacrifice. In a similar fashion the Engineers left technology behind for their use and it is Possible that they modified the indigenous people to be partially compatible not dissimilar to Predators adapting their bodies. As for David wiping them out I feel it's conjecture to assume that he was angry at all, maybe saddened that he found no other similar Artificial lifeforms and grieved for himself. Taking his situation into account he may have wanted to create through Engineer knowledge his own kind and took it upon himself to explore the possibility, after all, despite killing Elizabeth Shaw he wanted to make her a Queen that carried his progeny?

@@skyton658 they look and are dressed pretty much identically to the lone engineer at the start of 2012 Prometheus, the one in the same style robes that consumes the black goo and dissolves into the waterfall. The Engineers society is going to be as diverse as are own... as an Alien if you ran into an Astronaut on the moon and then visited a random town on earth you'd be unwise to assume the two species were not connected just because of the technological disparity seen between the two encounters.

Its not thinking the movie is really stupid as thr movie is what it is you shouldn't need outside info. Thus it is really stupid

I don't mind the odd loose end, but to leave SO much open to interpretation is just dumb IMO. Every good story has a beginning, middle, and end. There are a few basic plots of a good story: love interest, life lesson, overcoming adversity, etc. Like the fact that shaw would rebuild david knowing full well there was something wrong with him is ludicrous. Not only that, how would she have the knowledge and resources to actually do it.

Failure to be able to tell a story @@muskokamike127

Another great, grand movie plot line sacrificed on the cutting room floor to make room for an unnecessary sex scene with Charlize Theron.

"That's Stupid!" Is the HALLMARK of someone who doesn't Understand.. People like that are so far off the mark. It'd be like if I told you to get to the number 10 by counting in 2's and you were to say, "That's impossible!".. Clearly, you've missed to mark so hard, you're not even in the same Room. (not YOU, someone like that)

It was pretty obvious this is his motivation. Don't get how people don't understand that. He was treated terribly by humans

AI is always the baddie in most sci fi stuff (space odyssey etc)… Always

I agree that it feels like a rewrite of a much better plot, but I don't agree their original intention was to kill off Elizabeth Shaw in the same timeline as the one we already got. Also, any focus group would've told the creatives and studio execs that Elizabeth was the most popular character in the first movie that audience identified with, not David, so why kill her off only to replace her with an inferior version with a few similiar attributes that's ultimately just a cipher? This "wiping the slate clean" can work for reboots but not a direct sequel that required answers to make sense of the first movie. Lastly, there's no logical reason why Elizabeth would've reattached David's head to his body before her long cryosleep in the Engineer's ship. She would've kept some leverage over him.

Well there was numerous Drafts that would have been a different Movie, before they began a Series of Re-Writes and then more until we got the Nuts and Bolts that was Alien Covenant (3 drafts of this version) and they had David Kill Dr Shaw as they arrived at the Planet)... in the Movie what became of her is a bit of a Mystery. It could be that he had grown some feelings for her but it was not reciprocating from Dr Shaw. I don't think he had intended to Kill her, but it happened likely after she had rejected his Plans or became upset with what he had done and likely tried to escape

@@SmartCookie2022 Well before the Movie, RS had said that Dr Shaw would slowly put David back together, and that while Dangerous he is very Persuasive.... if we look at the Crossing Prologue, it leaves a number of Clues... it indicates that they likely would have gone to the Life Boat for Supplies and Other stuff. What we see is that Dr Shaws Hair has had 7-10 Months Growth... (this could be a oversight) but another thing looking at the Advent then Planet 4 is NOT that Far from LV-223, and it took the Covenant like about 11 Months from Earth... so we have to assume that the Juggernauts would take days to reach Planet 4.... but its likely that David would lie about how long it will take and how far it is, so he can get Dr Shaw into Cryo-Sleep (after he had been put back together) so that then David could go anywhere and do whatever he wanted.... thus Planet 4 may not and is unlikely to be the Birthplace/Home World of the Engineers

@@SmartCookie2022 regarding the killing off, then yes i can't see why they did that, i know Noomi has a number of commitments/projects so maybe was not available at the time of intended shooting.. however the Drafts were being worked on much before and she was not a part of the last 3 but added to a Prologue Scene which was written latter, and Noomi was brought in to Shoot a few Scenes for this.... i felt it was a shame and that we never got to see more of her Character Arc... and yes to then get replaced by Daniels who appeared to be a attempt of a Ripley somewhat, that really just did not excite or get interest from most viewers

@@davebear9825 I'm just saying it would have made more sense than "David decides to suck again."

It's implied that David initially did that on purpose as to not alarm Weyland. Your boss (creator) travels across the damn universe for answers to life's greatest questions, makes it there, just to be met with a "lol no".. and then you have to be the one to tell him haha

I agree!!! That would be amazing. Even down to the engineers sending Jesus to Earth to try and teach us.

Sounds like everyone is admitting that God exists without saying it directly because as it stands only a creator can make something from nothing.

Well yes, but actually no. The reason why you find them so interesting is the mystery. It won't be so fun if you get all the answers.

Agreed. The deleted scenes from Prometheus were some of the best parts, gave the story a lot more depth and immersion and some "I get that reference" dopamine for the brain. I can't believe those scenes were actually deleted. "Nah, this story's too good... needs less brain food, more running straight in the path of a crashing spaceship."

@@TheBenFranklinEffect Exactly. The reason for that I would say is because all the "kids" wanted "aliens" and the producers said no aliens...no money. ;) Covenant had the potential to be a brilliant intelligent Sci-Fi, but it mutated into a boring monster movie. I think Scott did his best to try and appease both "camps" of viewers (Engineer lovers, Alien lovers), but it just turned into a mess.

The way the Story would have continued would have shown us WHY it was that Ash had so much respect for the Xenomorph, as it highlights the Creation of Synthetics. But we won't get any Conclusion

Ash was preserving a specimen, the crew were expendable. Respect didn't come into it.

@ Ash had a lot of Respect for the Xenomorph even saw it as Perfection, of course at the Time of ALIEN in 1979 then the Prequels and David did not exist.. but in light of Alien Covenant and the David Creator plot it could UPLIFT the Character of Ash

Priority number 1 for the Company: Preserve the specimen. David is the father of the xenomorphs he make them perfect...and Ahs validate. Remember Xenomorphs only attacks the flesh and David and Ash aren't flesh humans. The enemy of my enemy is my friend...mentality!

@@davebear9825 How the hell can a parasite be perfect is beyond me, then again it was 1979, did not think too much about it, did they?

I think that was the Engineers civilian species. They are large but aged and less idealistic in figure. The engineers are military stock, more idealized and strong.

Both point of views seem reasonable! Although I thought the population that David wiped out was one of the Engineers’ creation…!

Ridley Scott says they aren't the engineers!@@te9591

You're right, it was the creators of the Engineers. The engineers are prefected life forms.

Yet the same tech (docking ship) over a huge public area and neo classical elements that align with engineers 😂

Bars

That colony was another creation of the Engineers not them.

Their are uncut versions available. If your interested do a web search for Prometheus Chaos Edition & Alien- Covenant Chaos Edition. All the missing scenes have been added to both movies Both movies are like 40 minutes longer than the theater release.

The first one was good, but there was a section of the audience that demanded more Xenomorph and less Chariots of the Gods. The studio listened to that vocal minority and "Alien: Covenant" is the end result. It's funny though, I don't recall anyone demanding they kill off Elizabeth Shaw and replace her character with a bland cipher.

1&2 could have been combined. Nothing in 2 that couldn't have also have been in the first

The best film!

And yet everyone trashed them so badly when they released. Now all I hear is how people want a 3rd.

Nobody needs any more of this garbage.

I liked them when they came out. They are two of the only movies I have given a re-watch to in decades. They get better with each watch.

Best films of the franchise

King David

That’s my middle name bro

I have only watched Prometheus. It seemed like Ridley had too much of a boner for symbolism, instead of a coherent story.

I thought so, too

He’s a hypocrite and is ironically human himself. It’s comedic to me. He sees himself as above humans, but in the end, he took the lesser traits of humanity, and created creatures that are not only biologically doomed to fail in the long run (the xenomorph) due to its animalistic nature and the fact that the species will starve to death after eradicating an entire planets population. What’s funnier is that he didn’t even create it. He just took already made information from the engineers in order to make his protomorph.

Whoa, wait. What is it called?!

@@jenna6082It's called just like the movie, "PROMETHEUS", it was published in 2012 by writer and editor Eisuka Suzuki and was published by Taibundo in Japan on August 1, 2012.

film is amazing

Alien Covenant is garbage.

Amen

Exactly, it really upset me. They should pick up a better screen writer.

I didn't like that part, but I think shaw would have tried to humanize David, which I don't think would fit into the story. I did love Shaw's character and actress, and they did her dirty killing her off screen, but I don't know if the direction the story took would warrant her character in the story. Sidenote, I think they should've connected blade runner to the alien prequels a bit more because blade runner was amazing, but as they say "too many chefs"

Where is this flat ship ?.You'r delusional..When came David and his engineer ship, he sailed in the air and dock in the ship to two air structures .

@@bsbgsn3677 i did not say flat ship, i said floating ship, or what looks like a ship. Maybe, as you put it, docking station, is a better term. It's just floating there, why? And what happened to it after David dropped the "black goo" payload?

@@gamemods855 Good questions..David's ship is showed in that scene, and the next scene with this ship is where the Covenant Crew find David ship -- semi-broken and unfunctionnal in the woods .??..Very Strange..What happened to David''s ship in meanwhile ??

@@bsbgsn3677 its crashed. Remember how they see the tops of the trees ripped off and they keep walking and find the crashed ship with Shaw's belongings. What I want to know is where is that docking station or whatever it is that was already in their sky when David flew down. Also, David knew how to fly their ships, why did he crash? Maybe they fought back somehow? So many questions and probably no real answers.

I think it's human small mindedness about what an "advanced" people would look like. We assume it means domination via tech of everything. Maybe they don't think that? Maybe being bucolic and in tune with nature was the ideal?

It's the same in war: in order to save the town we had to bomb it into oblivion. They used this theory during WWII when the allies carpet bombed German cities.

i agree, to make better Alien film one must first destroy Alien covenant. lol :)

Naet watches but totally depart and devoid of anything "alien". Ridley went for the "cerebral" movie that answered nothing in a movie that the main character was searching for. Total absurd and waste of the viewers time. Still enjoyable tho if you look at them as stand-alone movies

Yes they were, but I have a problem with them due to the many holes left in the story line and the holes in the story/plot. For one, the fact that the crew would just use "breathable" air as justification for removing their helmets. Anyone who has taken rudimentary biology knows that just because air is breathable, doesn't mean it's safe to breathe. We on earth have adapted to organisms and diseases here on earth, we will NOT be adapted to organisms present on other planets. Through evolution, we've built up resistance to colds, flu, etc. but a cold from another world would kill us. This is the same issue with star trek...they beam down to a planet without a care in the world. Even if David hadn't dropped the bio weapons on the engineer's planet the crew wouldn't survive anyways.

​@@muskokamike127That is actually just a theory that cuts both ways. Yes, we have adapted to colds and flu's etc but so to have they adapted to us. This is one reason why there are diseases and such that can only infect certain species and cannot jump to other species or to humans. In an entirely alien world, none of the diseases would be adapted to human biology and may be completely ineffective or be overwhelmed by our system. Given all life we can study is on earth and has had exposure to life on earth, we really can't know what the result of an actual alien interaction would be. With that said, taking off your helmet is still just dumb. I mean, you risk wiping out the natural flora and fauna which must exist if oxygen is being maintained at breathable levels.

@@rivenarchon333 Yes, bacteria has adapted to us same as viruses BUT viruses can affect oxygen breathing beings in a similar manner and we wouldn't have any antibodies to fight off that virus. Even with covid, the reason so many required hospitalization isn't because of the virus, it's because of our body's reaction to the virus. Same as pollen, or other air borne particles. Different people have different reactions to pollen on earth, so imagine our body's reaction to alien pollen? Anyhow, you're arguing just to argue at this point. It is not a good idea to expose yourself to alien anything..bacteria, viruses, insects, pollen, single celled organisms, the whole gambit.

@@muskokamike127 Well the uncut versions might help a little bit. There are uncut versions available. If your interested do a web search for Prometheus Chaos Edition & Alien- Covenant Chaos Edition. All the missing scenes have been added to both movies. Both movies are like 40 minutes longer than the original theater release.

Yeah I think that is the case.

Its the other way around, those on Planet 4 are Engineers and those on LV-223 it seems would be Genetically Engineered Super Engineers and so have more in common with David (only they are Organic)... we never got to see whats at the Top of the Creation ladder... but we could have been thrown a Curveball.. like "they came from us"

Nobody knows for sure. This movie is such a mess they've decided to rely on ambiguity in order for it to be interpreted in different ways. It's best not to think about it too much, as the writers and director sure didn't.

@@SmartCookie2022 The Engineers Plot/Appearance has changed a little... it had changed from a Vastly Superior Muscle Bound Adonis... to being more closer to Humans, making the Prometheus Engineers Genetically Enhanced Military Types. Ridley Scott had confirmed that those beings were Engineers, and that this is the way he intended them to look. This is how they Originally look. With Prometheus the Engineers were given a more Marble Statue look, a kind of Synthetic look about them and they was intended to be 10-15ft... but Alas this was not pulled off.... but RS had intended the Engineers to be different in the Sequel

How could they ever measure up to the engineers when they weren’t given barbell weights and testosterone

*and let’s say it was in fact David’s plan to infuriate the Engineers - did he do so, in order to lure them on Planet 4 in order to take revenge on them, for ripping of his head? Or did he want to prevent them from going back to Earth? Oooor did he want to see his creation of the Xenomorph prey on the Engineers, just so he could admire his creation?!

Ci sta,buona analisi ✌🏼

@@frankiepavinato su UKposts ho cercato video su questa vicenda ed alla fine ne ho trovato uno che parla dello script originale: in quest'ultimo David spezza il collo alla Shaw ed usa il suo corpo in "trasformazione" tipo Brett per creare tutti gli esperimenti e uova viste in Covenant

It was another planet where they had seeded life. They weren't engineers.

Well this doesn't have to be the Engineers Home World it is unlikely that a Race who have been traveling the Universe (never mind) Galaxy for Millions of years would all be located on a Single Planet in a Single City..... for David he does not care about what Dr Shaw wanted, so Planet 4 could just be the closest World that has Engineers. But those beings in Ridley Scots eyes where the Original Engineers... he also said there is NO Engineer Race as per say but Civilizations... so Worlds contain a mix of Humanoids related to the Engineers and Mankind... Planet 4 is kind of like Paradise as in the Garden of Eden had Adam and Eve not Ate from the Tree of Knowledge and thus been expelled from Paradise

The engineers have that Aqiline nose of all the beautifully carved statues of that time, I noticed..

What gets me is a race of warriors/predators actually had superior space travel technology than the Engineers. I actually understand the predators better and respect them.

Predators looking to conquer & subjugate, engineers were seeding… not so much war tech needed perhaps?

@@carolinagoldbug983 I'm not fully familiar with the lore but I think the fact they had such weird mix of high technology + barbarian warrior ways was because they rebelled against an older, more advanced insectoid race which was enslaving them, overthrew them and stole a lot of their intel. sort of like saiyans.

Blame studio not RS. Honestly the entire vision of the franchise was warped after James Cameron worked on Aliens.

I liked both Proth and Cov for what they were. Not as something that could possibly outmatch the original Aliens movies. I don't think it was fair to ax the series before the story was told.

My cutoff point too. Alien 4 was an abomination.

I completely agree

@@jth4242 It doesn't exist in my multiverse.

With a Plot that was always changing who knows what was at the TOP of the Creation Tree, Certainly the Engineers would NOT have been the God's, they likely have a Level of Creation above themselves

Duh that's obvious it's in the movie prometheus, a hieroglyph with the Lord of the Engineers which they worship. He looks like a giant engineer with a snake helmet , the carving is inside the cave they explore

In the ridley scott's world of alien, there is no queen. The first alien movie is it. The 2nd or 3rd ones are just stupidly created by other directors with no vision

I'm under the belief that the craft that fell on Vickers in Prometheus with the ship, goo and Vickers female genome would produce the eggs from alien. Shaw left the message of warning... The Deacon would be like the Creator of the Engineers as seen in the He giger painting with the Xenomorph snake where it is growing the Engineers... The creator was a Xenomorph

@@duyle-ej6tymate sorry but thats not accurate. Aliens by James Cameron is one of the best sequels ever. It expanded on the lore significantly. If Ridley didnt bugger prometheus and covenant up he could have explained it much better instead of adding stupid characters! I agree however the other sequels were shite tho.

@@duyle-ej6ty wasn't Aliens' Director James Cameron??

@@duyle-ej6ty 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I hate them. At least they shouldn't have used the space jockey, it makes this thing look forced, lazy and uninspired. I liked when David killed them all 😆.

@@tentsio Same, that actually was very satisfying hehe

@@tentsiowhy?

The density of the atmosphere...maybe...

The Ship had begun to Dock with the Engineers kind of Border Control Ship... but David had unleashed the Pathogen and both Ships got into a Dust Up/Crash maybe? The Engineers ship then Crashed on Planet 4 (it can be seen in one of the scenes) while the Ship that David was in Crashed into a Stream running down a Mountain

Well that was the Plan.. 2-3 more Movies then we get to ALIEN... but they have Written themselves into a Corner so its a difficult Task... David is in the Driving Seat .. the Fate of the Covenant ship is in his hands so it comes down to what he wants to do next... a movie where he turns all the Colonist into Xenos is not going to be very interesting. Unless its done on Origae 6 where people could escape.... also Daniels knows who David is and so he would want to keep her under control

Indeed, Its also about Mortality and Legacy in context to the Movie.... in that no matter how Great your accomplishments are, even when you are gone and have a Legacy and Monuments, eventually they will all be lost to the Sands.... its basically looking at what is the point in it all if you are not IMMORTAL... the Opening Scene touches on similar to. Its intended to fit with multiple layers which inc the Engineers... now they are all Dead on Planet 4, in Millions of Years what much would remain of any signs of the Engineers once Great City and Civilization etc