Tugs automatic in Hawai'i safety

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​​@@river4462 I HOPE YOU HAWAIIANS SNAP FORWARD AND DEMOCRATS AND GET FREAKING GET THEM ALL OUT OF THERE AND STOP 🛑 STOP HIRING FAMILY MEMBERS THAT HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE DOING TO MAKE MONEY AND NEPOTISM CRAP VOTE THEM ALL OUT HAWAII AND VOTE FREAKING TO GET OPRAH AND ALL THOSE FREAKING PIECES OF SHIT OUT OF FREAKING HAWAII AND SHIT HAWAII IS NOT FOR FREAKING BILLIONAIRES TO MAKE THEIR OWN PRIVATE LITTLE RESORTS AND STUFF , WHAT ARE THE DEMOCRATS OUT THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN IS REPUBLICANS WON'T DO ANYTHING BETTER OTHER THAN THAT GET THEM ALL THE HELL OUT OF THERE BECAUSE I'M A LION AND I MOVED OVER TO THE STATES TO NEW JERSEY AND I DID TEST THE GODDAMN DEMOCRATS AND I DETEST WHAT THE HAWAIIANS THINK OF AS A THEIR LAND TYPE THING HOW DO I SAY IT'S OUR LAND SO WE SHOULD BE RUNNING IT KNOW YOU RUNNING INTO THE GROUND AND FREEING FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS TO REALLY PUT IT INTO THE GROUND

@jeffhays1968 Old sailboat captain here....always enjoyed seeing those Moran tugs side by side at the docks in Portsmouth...guessing ship captains enjoy them by their sides !

@@davenorman6717 seems tugs would understanably go hand in hand with cargo and other vessels. Automatic☮️🤙🏽🏝

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Baltimore is a special case. It's losing ships to the Virginia ports which have several natural (closer to the open sea) and man made (few or no bridges over main channels and good railroad access to the "Inland Port." The "Baltimore Advantage" may well just the willingness to cut charges by cutting corners.

@@GilmerJohn They will lose them now for sure.

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In the waters of Hawai'i the tugs can be 1-1.5 miles ahead of the barge....long tows almost exclusively Barges in Hawai'i have no brakes so if tugs are towing close hmmmmmm they need the distance. Not to forget the big 10 feet or higher swells and the sketchy channels

And it isn't just a matter of being in a port. What about ANY bridge that a ship goes under that has 'wet' supports. How many are along the Intercoastal? Do they need tugs as well, just in case of power outages\maneuvering failures? I don't really see more tugs as the solution. More and better dolphins, fenders where possible etc... are better choices.

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I think this SOP should change. I was in the Navy for 25 years, and I’ve been on many combatants, and supply ships (engineering). We could loose power at anytime pulling in and out of port. I have seen it happen. Plus if we can give billions to other countries, Federal DOT can pay for a tug crew at each port of entry. If they’re going to give it away, at least give it to someone here.

As a pilot myself, I still find it incredible that given the constrains of the channel and having to pass under such a critical piece of infrastructure, close proximity to the ship berths and tug berths, that an escort tug isn't standard practice here, and this situation wasn't highlighted as a potential high risk scenario a long time ago? Everything is fine until it's not.... As a pilot you have to have in your mind that this could happen at any moment on every job, and continuously be thinking of an emergency plan in the back of your mind. Nothing makes a Pilot happier than having the security blanket of having a tug or tugs with you. Huge thanks and respect to all Tug crews out there. You guys never get enough thanks for your work with us.

@@skipah01 I 100% agree. You’re spot on.

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@@TimBatSealink to dr Sal ng

Thank you for your opinion on this. I've developed a lot of respect for the tugboat operators and what they can do. I've seen them really haul tail in an emergency and prevent real damage. It's my professional opinion that this tragedy would not have happened.Had they held onto one of the tugs going out.

What is going on with shipping is criminally good... Compared to traditional media, we have gotten the technical details rather than the wash of emotion material they usually do. Like the old school reporting back in the old days, just specialized in one field.

Ships when passing near or under large structures should keep only minimum speed (2kts). Also its better if escorted by tugs. Here, at Baltimore, many wrong decisions by the port mgmt. 1. Ship was set free to head before crossing the bridge. 2. Need of tug boats was omitted at this critical passage. 3. Very less dolphins to protect the bridge from impact. 4. Traffic was not stopped and maintenance work on the bridge was also going on. 5. No VHF communication for the maintenance workers on the bridge.

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Yeah I was thinking the tugs would have to be under control to do anything. They wouldn't be able to go hook up to and stop the ship in that situation.

Could somebody please give us American citizens some answers? Why was a ship plagued with electrical problems allowed to leave dock? Enroute to a 27 day journey to SriLanka. I would of thought they must pass a safety checklist prior to voyage. Where is the investigative report on what and why this happened? Black box? Ship's logs? Was the pilot impaired? What is mandatory requirements for ship both entering or leaving any US port? Responsibility of harbormaster pilot? We need answers. This does not pass any smell test.

COME ON MAN ! PLEEEEEZE...WHO PAID YOU TO SAY THIS CAPTAIN GOOFBALL. YOU CANNOT SAY A GOOD LIE. NO MORE OF YOU FOR ME.ADIOSE AMEGOSE. GEEZE !

@user-co7fb6qe5w I hear you, and agree, how did this happen...un seaworthy container ship, 3 football fields long, pushed off docking spot.. Went down straight line to Key Bridge...never made it under wide middle portion...ship went dark, lost steering...that ship should have been lined up, for center of Bridge. I am told no need for tugboat.. 5000 meters earlier, Even if went dark.. Tugs on each side may have been able to guide ship thru center. But locals say Tugs never used and no help...maybe needed, consumers pay more.. , how did this on straight center line end up crashing into bridge pylon ?? I just hope this event studied as much as DEEP HORIZON, in Gulf by the coast guard. Suits for negligence, or poor matainence, coming..and obvious....cost, for shipping company to repair Bridge, funerals and loss of life...some dude texts on You Tube. Tugs too expensive. Just an accident...now more fed rules. Experienced Tug boat guy or he says.

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Having the workers on the bridge saved many lives because the police vehicles were there controlling traffic and when they got the mayday they blocked traffic at both ends saving many lives.

@@TimBatSea See You On The Ocean ?

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Mike... Take a look at the bridges built in Japan by Sumitomo Mitsui. They always protect the bridge pylons with "standoff aprons" or abutments as you refer to them. To me this is a no-brainer, but I am not an engineer, just another person expressing my opinion, right or wrong. I agree with your assessment 100%. Beyond that, I have been in and out of ports in Asia and Europe aboard ships with high freeboard and therefore subject to being pushed around by the wind. As you know from your USCG experience, it doesn't take much wind. Were I the decision maker, I would mandate the pylon abutments and tugs with a release point well beyond the bridge.

Thanks for that info, Galen!@@vance7274

Hi. I worked on the Ohio, and Mississippi Rivers for 14 years. Most of the bridges I saw there had really substantial abutments or a number of pier cells filled with concrete and soil to guard the bridge piers. The builders of those bridges just assumed that one day a large tow of 15,000-20,000 tons would lose power or steering and crash into something while going under the bridge. When I saw the photos of the FSK Bridge in Baltimore my first thought was, WTF, where are the pier cells guarding those spindly looking bridge supports. Why would such an important structure be standing there naked waiting for something to come along and tap one of its supports and bring it down. The reason is that the people who paid for building the bridge didn't want to spend the extra money to protect their investment. It is easier to shift the cost to the shipping companies, and eventually the consumers of the products that they are carrying, or when disaster finally strikes, shift the blame to the ship operators. I am sure that the gov't entities that built the bridge are sending their thoughts and prayers to the families of those poor folks who lost their lives in this tragedy.

I've been looking the last few days as I was crossing, and have realized that the bay bridge also has ZERO defense against ship impacts.

@@whiteyfarm the best part of this event is the fact people with true skills are stepping forward to give first hand over-site from years of sea duty ...each of us see things from our own skills and expertise. and i fully agree with you both ...it is a day when davy jones locker claims land lovers , the sailors know what i mean .we trust our crew and their skills we see the oceans and the sea and we have accepted our risk to be who we are , these people did not . they just wanted to get to the other side ..they will never be forgotten ...RIP to all stay safe stay free

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True. Thank you for watching. CUOTO

You care to say which harbor you work in?

@@TimBatSea You didn't say why that ship made a almost 90 degree turn in about 30 seconds to plow into the bridge. Unless you can tell us why that ship went from going straight down the middle of the channel on it's way to go under center span to making a hard turn to starboard in a short amount of time to hit the bridge you haven't told us anything .

@@phoebus actually AIS data shows 11 degrees of turn. Thank you very much for watching. CUOTO

@@TimBatSea Well that's bull. Are you telling me that you are only seeing 11 degrees of turn to starboard on the videos? If you are then you have no credibility. You don't go from seeing the side of the ship almost full on to only seeing the bow with a turn of only 11 degrees. There was a small turn to port a second or two just before impact, that small turn was probably about 11 degrees.

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Yep, it's taken precedence over qualifications.

And it is everywhere.

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Well I do have perspective, having operated several boats in the same water for many years, had an uncle who operated a tug in that harbor, etc and a tug would have, could have prevented such. A slight bump, change in direction would have could have saved the bridge. Your comment makes you seem an expert looking down on all the little people who you seem to think have no common sense because they don't own a ship, nonsense.

😂😂😂"Hold my beer" Adam. 😂 Thank you very much for watching. CUOTO

@@aday1637 no, sir I was really only referring to the comments that I have read that say"why didn't the idiots driving that boat just put it in reverse?"

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Thank you for watching. Most bridges built after Tampa are much better protected. CUOTO

@@TimBatSea Up here in Halifax we retrofitted protection to our bridges after the the risk was identified in '77. Lots of depth but tugs are required through the harbour. It's not that expensive and it does make sense. Cough.

The Key Bridge was built before the Skyway came down.

Governments regardless of country like to spend money on new projects because they attract a lot of attention. Spending money on upgrades doesn't.

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The bridge does have dolphins, but they are small, and quite a distance from the supports themselves. The ship hit at an angle that avoided the dolphin.

@@SgtBrendanN Yes I've seen them, but when this bridge was built in the mid 70s, ships were tiny in comparison to what they are today. The first container ships had only been around for about 5 years and they were tiny. No additional protection for the actual bridge seems to have been added since that time. For such an important bridge in such an important shipping lane and harbour, that seems a pretty shocking state for it to be in.

The ship was actually aground before it hit. It didn't much matter.

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Samesies 🎉

@@mostlyvoid.partiallystars Thank you very much

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Willie Odom turned down the wrong channel. Not up. A man must know his limitations. Obviously he didn't know the course in the icw. He could have stopped and pushed against the bank instead of fkng guessing and waking the captain and giving him a wrong position. He seen the bridge light and thought it was an industrial site further into the course westward. Minor detail Bet Willie will never live it down what a tragedy! Imagine waking up in that mess.

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That sounds like a horrific avoidable tragedy!!

SOP. Please see part 2 for clarification. Thank you very much for watching. CUOTO

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Thank you for watching! I am sure heads will roll. CUOTO

Much like people who ask why a train could not stop when it saw a stuck car from a half mile away... it is too big for most people to realize how big it is.

Should have been more proactive instead of all the reactive drama. Tugs waiting nearby even before anything out of the ordinary happened.

770,000 KJ of kinetic energy by the way compared to the 888 KJ of a 2 ton car going 70 Miles per Hour.

Tugs basically bump the ship to keep it on course.

The odds are... now established.

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That's what they want you to believe! Just so happened that the redundancies failed and the ship CONVENIENTLY and SUDDENLY turned right into the pylon!

@@edkiely2712 please see part 2 for clarification.

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The part that really amazes me is the complete disregard for any possible failures. I can sort of understand thinking that outgoing vessels aren't going to have mechanical failures that quickly, but what happens if there's a sudden medical emergency of some sort that incapacitates the pilot and anybody else there that can operate the vessel, or there's just an old fashioned mistake? The bridge had no protective engineering that I can identify in case of a ship contacting it. Nothing to prevent a ship from colliding in this fashion and apparently no tugs either. What's more, one doesn't need to be a pilot to know that without properly functioning engines and the rest of it, there's not much that anybody on the ship could do.

That's not what Tim said. Listen from 6:00 onward. Paraphrasing, he said that the two McAllister escort tractor tugs would not have been able to significantly affect the steerage of the ~100,000-ton Dali at the 8+ knots it was traveling when this particular accident happened due to two complete power loses. And at 8:45 he said continuous escorts in the future for all ships would be cost prohibitive and unnecessary.

Tugs make great fenders.

Apparently the pilots attempted to get the tugs back (NYT) in an attempt gain control of their vessel, but unfortunately they were too far away to make it. Sure, it is expensive to have the extra safety precaution, but so is paying for a multi-billion dollar replacement bridge and six lives. Add in the economic impact and we could be talking about 100s of billions of dollars. It could have happened at 1:30 PM and we would be talking about 1000s of lost lives. @@Raiders33

Tugs don't make good fenders if you are on one.

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@@michaelpezzullo3591 Bureaucrats was the term he was hunting for.

​@@michaelpezzullo3591so on the same thought process if we add another 20% container to each ship prices will come down? What is the real cost? Where do guidelines emphasize safety first/ profit 2nd? Way too many conflicting 'expert' opinions. Biden and congress immediately on right there with conclusive solutions before a thorough investigation has been complete? What about Eazt Palenstine, Ohio. Maui? Selectivereactions. Why?

​@@michaelpezzullo3591😂 That is such a LIE. I think $2 per container would cover it and that's it.

He didn’t clear up anything. If one tug isn’t enough, the ship should have enough tugs escorting to control the ship. If this isnt possible, the ship should be allowed in the bay. We can regulate ship size.

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Thrusters are of no use during a power outage. 🤔

Note the nearby power lines to the bridge that is a dolphin ! The bridge had only concrete piling about 100 feet out USELESS. After the Sunshine skyway collision in ‘81 ??, they proposed dolphins for this bridge but deemed too expensive (now LOL)

That seems to be a factor here. The ship damage is at the bow main deck so that looks like what took out the pylons. Bridge was built in the late 1970s. The Dali is neoPanamax so about 50' wider than a Panamax ship of the past. That give about 25' more reach from the flare. Waterline looks dented but apparently didn't take out the dolphin wall that kept the current off the pylons.

Thank you very much for watching Jerry. Thrusters have no effect when underway an as stated below, no power - no thrusters. As to dolphins, I don't believe there are dolphins that will stop a 100k ton ship moving at that speed. After the Tampa bridge disaster, they start shoaling around dolphins and bridges. This would likely be the only chance at stopping or diverting a ship this big and fast. CUOTO

8 knots is way too fast! Newport Harbor is limited to 5 knots.

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Thank you very much Doug! CUOTO

It's a chain of events that was completely preventable. If going slower isn't practical due to the currents, that just makes having proper protection for the bridge in terms of more concrete at the base and higher up. Proper dolphins in the water to help direct the ship around the pylon and more tugs to help keep the ship from colliding with the bridge. If that isn't enough, then it's completely unacceptable to have a bridge over a section of water with those ships. Either nix the bridge or nix the docks. We're fortunate that there were probably only 6 casualties. This could have happened with even less lead time or during a busier part of the day.

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@@SmallSpoonBrigadeEven at a leisurely 9knots or 10mph, the mass of a fully loaded container ship imparts an instantaneous force exceeding 2 Million HP! Shoring up the pylons with protection for this would double the cost of the $1.2B bridge, and possibly damage the ship to the point of foundering.

@@luisderivas6005 It wouldn't double the cost. You just made that up.

@@luisderivas6005 If it truly can't be shored up enough, and tugs can't do the job, then they shouldn't have been running ships that size past that bridge. As I said, the whole thing was completely avoidable.

Please see part 2 for clarification. Thank you very much for watching. CUOTO

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Agreed! Thank you very much for watching. CUOTO

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@@TimBatSea Thanks also, Tim! But to be clear --- in your opinion, if the two McAllister tractor tugs (the Bridget McAllister at 5,080 HP and the Eric McAllister at 5,150 HP) had continued to escort the Dali in the channel could they have affected the Dali's steerage enough to prevent it from hitting the bridge with the Dali's two power loses?

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Please see part 2 for clarification.

I disagree with some of your points. Some ships, especially container vessels and car carriers, have a minimum speed of 8-9 knots and standard harbour tugs simply cannot keep up. Maybe be in future dedicated escort tugs will be used. Secondly, there 100% would have been ships crew standing by the anchors on the forecastle. Saying you couldn’t see them on the footage is just ridiculous… Shaquille O’Neill would have been impossible to see on that footage.

@@scottM-ws7yo 8-9 Knots is to fast and anchoring is restricted in that canal.That is why ship need tugs all the way inn and out of port.

@@ocendo1 Yes it’s quite fast for a ship this size but a normal speed to transit a channel. 7-8 knots is equivalent to first gear on a ship like this.

@@scottM-ws7yo Hardly! Although steerage gets worse as speed is lost, these ships can still steer at Dead Slow Ahead. They just require more rudder power. If the engine is stopped, rudder power can be augmented by a ‘kick ahead’ with the main engine. I served my Apprenticeship on a thousand-footer, and saw that is often done by pilots and the Master.

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Probably the extra expenses made them stop doing it. But it’s purely the assessment of the probability of something going wrong, which is near 0, but on the other sides the what’s the result when it goes wrong, which we see is catastrophic. So was it a risk worth taking? Probably in lots of places with a similar layout people will rethink their policies now.

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Can't put a price tag on safety.

@@roswellramseur621 Really? Do you drive the safest car? Do you live in the safest house in the safest community? Do you have the safest fire suppression system in your house? Do you have.... This can go on forever. The point is, we bitch about taxes but we can't even fix the roads or bridges. I think we all put a price on safety but we aren't willing to pay it.

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​@@TimBatSeaCompare FSK BRIDGE to Kerch Bridge

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E=MC²? The ship was going so fast it was approaching the speed of light? Or was it powered by a nuclear reaction? 😁 I think you're looking for KE=½ mv²

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I do not believe they could while the ship that size was moving at that speed. Thank you very much for watching. CUOTO

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Donjon is enroute. Thank you very much for watching. CUOTO

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💯!! Thank you very much for watching and welcome to the channel. CUOTO

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💯!! Exactly!! Thank you very much for watching Tommus. CUOTO

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Oh shoot! I know you! I was hoping you could weigh in and take some of the heat with me Cap! 😂

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Please see part 2 for clarification. Thank you very much for watching. CUOTO

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A couple things, one why was it going so fast if the tugs couldn't manage it. And secondly, the tugs wouldn't need to stop the ship, the tugs just needed to keep it going straight through. Once the ship was through the bridge they had pretty much as much space to stop as they needed to. Which is to say that the tugs just needed to be able to supply enough force to the ship to keep it from changing course. Which quite honestly, isn't much of an ask. The ship wants to go straight by default so it just has to supply enough push to make up for any wind or currents. I used to know one of of the local harbor pilots here and I'm well aware of the fact that the stopping distance on one of these ships is long, typical docking around here involves starting to slow miles before you're at the actual dock. And that even with the emergency stopping procedures you're still talking something on measurable in miles. Or to look at it a different way, if tugs wouldn't be enough, then why is the ship moving that quickly and why is the bridge not properly engineered to deal with this. This collision was going to happen eventually. This isn't the first time a ship has knocked over a bridge, and it won't be the last. So, to put so much faith in the ship to not have any mechanical problems and the pilot to not make any mistakes seems rather fantastic.

Very true! Thank you for watching! CUOTO

Unlike a car, ships steer by water flowing past the rudder. This means the faster they go, the more responsive they are. (Up to a limit). Further, this steering force us hugely augmented by the wash coming from the propeller. At 8kn the speed of the water past the rudder could well be in the order of 20-30kn! With the prop stopped this falls to hull speed. Still works but greatly diminished. Depending on what angle the rudder was at when the lights went out, the rudder will simply stay there.

Yes a true escort tug can have a big effect on a ship that size. The escort tug can steer a ship that size.

Bigger tug, see my post for why that works

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In Jacksonville I don't think I ever saw a car carrier coming in with a tug escort under the dames point bridge. Though car carriers are smaller albeit only slightly.

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@@TimBatSea I am highly recommend your channel and you as a Professional Mariner and very important issue on this bridge collapse collision. About the Tugboat usage in Dock assists with very large super size ships. And especially important about your great information on even if a tug or two would have been escorts or even lines up to stern. Very important as a brake style to slow forward motion of again will say super large ships we have today. I hate how new build tugs are going to this "O" emissions to meet Port requirements Tugs have to be as you the Tug Captain. Have to have that massive Diesel engine that doesn't have all this emissions BS. You need pulling or pushing power ( hopefully you as a tug won't tip over) pushing on the bow in an emergency. Tugs have rolled over in the past. That great video of the Navy tug alongside a Nuclear sub and sub just continues to move and eventually the tug gets dragged under and SINKS. That's the ONE big issue I worry about you personally in your Profession job, you arein. I really like your video talking about Tugboat life, even showing the footage of buying food for the crew. A well feed crew with great MEAT dinner is a happy 😊 crew and that so important to you in bridge, as your crew handle those huge tow line any time of day.

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It’s literally thier jobs to control those ship’s! It all comes down to money and convenience. They refuse to put up ship barriers or use tugs. A more apt comparison is the Skyway bridge in Tampa in the 80’s. Guess what they do down their since, in addition to the ship barriers, they are escorted by tugs! At least that is my understanding.

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I would highly disagree with OP. See RanMans comment on how the prices are going to go up anyway. Remember, it didn't have to be this way.

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Keep in mind corporations always want profit to be private and risk to public.

Thank you very much for watching Jules. I don't believe there is a tug on the planet that could have stopped this. CUOTO

Then there's another bridge 15 miles south of Baltimore. Do you pay for tugs there too?

@@jcl410 _"Then there's another bridge 15 miles south of Baltimore. Do you pay for tugs there too?"_ And there's the bridge-tunnel at the entrance to the Bay. Do you keep the tugs all the way to the ocean?

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