I remember this old glitch in a game I played, where that when I lagged a tad too much, time would stop for me and I would get a disconnection timer, yet I could still move. The thing is though, I could shoot at the enemies and there was about a 50/50 chance when my net came back that either they or I would die

This problem is very prevalent in vr games. Onward vr knew this and decided that everything should be run client side, so the client always gets the kill if it appeared to them like they should. This results in trades being incredibly common and being killed after getting behind cover common as well. This decision was probably made because the TTK is so low in Onward that it would be unfair to players with high ping if this approach wasn’t chosen. I know you prefer longer TTK games, but do you have any thoughts about this?

There is advantages and disadvantages though(You can randomly teleport and hit the person at a random moment so possibly end up killing them) but i think its better to not take that risk and get a good wifi connection

This guy always has something interesting to say. When I see his videos, I always watch them

I've started playing lots of VR shooting games, and most of these games only have multiplayer servers in the U.S.A., because that's where most of the playerbase is. Because I'm in Australia, I have absurdly high ping, to the point where I have to spend almost a full second dodging an enemy's bullets well and truly after I've killed them. And if I'm playing against anyone else who is also in Australia, that lag gets doubled :/ I really wish that VR game companies would start making servers in parts of the world other than the U.S.A....

Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.

This can also happen due to weird anti cheat measures. In CSGO and many other Source games the RNG seed for random weapon spread (and other things) is different on the client and server to prevent someone from being able to predict it and therefore have perfect accuracy no matter what also known as nospread. In TF2 its actually possible to perfectly aim a shotgun shot at an enemy and see all the bullet tracers go through their playermodel, but hit zero bullets because of how the shotgun spread is randomized by default on most servers including official valve servers. Forget turning off random crits, I want random shotgun spread turned off first lol.

Yes, this is what I expected - quality material from a guy with passion and interest in games, spoken with a calm natural voice without shouting and fake exaggerations.

I love that you keep including clips of Battlefield1. Not only do you discuss topics I'm very interested in, you also show clips of all the games I really love. I don't know what you're doing, but keep doing it. This is cool as heck.

I remember early on in TF2 (2008 or possibly early 2009) that some servers actually did have a problem where every player would regularly see other players "teleporting" around if more than a dozen or so people joined. Because every player, including the admin, was experiencing the same thing, the fact that it was a server side issue was figured out pretty quickly. Then there was an update to TF2 that seemed to fix this particular bug for all the servers that were affected, so all the admins were able to bump up the player counts to two dozen or more without any problem.

I just discovered this guy from the ' AAA DEvs Ignoring your feedbacck video", and i must say, i'm hooked. Seriously, it's different to all the other channels, and i feel like i've learnt more in these 3 mins then what i would find searching videos, articles and digging through forums for like 20 mins. Thanks Garbaj :)

This channel is awesome. What a little gem to find on UKposts. Never thought I'd be so interested in the whole game dev process - looking forward to your game!

I love how short your videos are despite being so informative. Love it man👍

I think the most common cause of no reg especially when you hear it about games like csgo is the weapon's random spread. The server generates its own random position for the bullet to go and the client does their own but the one that counts is the one calculated on the server but the one you see the bullet decals and blood for is the one calculated on the client. You can see this in source games by going into a local server and typing the command "sv_showimpacts 1" and then shoot. You will notice 2 bullet impact boxes will appear which will be slightly mismatching or sometimes be at completely different locations, the blue one represents the position the server calculated while the red one is the one client calculated.

Thank you very much for introducing this topic. I am a informatic specialized in networks and I love video games, you would not imagine how many times I have heard people complain and accuse the game of being poorly designed due to server connection problems. Thank you very much and I would like to see more content like this on this platform. Ps: I don't speak English natively so sorry for the spelling mistakes.

Love u man, always getting me the juicy infos!!

Love the topics of these videos and how well you explain stuff. Keep up the good work :)

Damm i love ur vids man, always something interesting to learn each time

most all of the stuff you talk about i already know. but you voice is so calming and there is prettymuch always some new detail i didnt know before that i really enjoy your videos

Seeing your videos has not only informed me on issues in gaming that I was unaware of, but also taught me some really neat fun facts about games that I didn't know. Your unique and entertaining content will drive this channel to success far beyond it's current level .

As a software engineer I find your explanation to be very effective and simple. You covered the basic of UDP packet transfer and accurately called that animations happen locally, rather than data driven by sever side rendering. Great video.

What I also find interesting about how "no regs" (NR) can happen, is its not only because of internet issues, but also how the hit logic works - take Tf2s melee hitreg for example. Go look it up (I suggest shounic) , you will be stunned how complex it is but also why many times in TF2 you get NR.

Holy crap I’m loving this new upload schedule for Garbaj!

Great video. Short, to the point and informative.

No reg can also happens when the server just does not accept your input. For example, CSGO hitboxes local vs server are slighty miss alligned, which means you get a hit locally but on the server it does not accept the hit. (3kliksphillip made a video on it) More of a bug than desync i would think.

As someone who’s making my own game your videos have been extremely helpful. Thank you for such amazing content.

love your videos man!

I love the simplified explanations of why I get upset in games lol. Fr though, I can't wait to play your game when it releases. You've tackled some of the main issues I have with a lot of games on your channel and solutions to it as well. These explanations are so useful for someone who spends a lot of time gaming. Thanks!

Enough explaining bro upload a dev log we are waiting

Multiplayer coding is some of the most headache inducing code I've encountered. It's like alternate universes trying to time travel and figure out what player gets what benefit. There's almost no clean universal solution that would work for all games. It's like, you just have to figure out how to hack your specific game to work well online. If you look at the original Quake it had all sorts of rubber banding and other issues due to making no attempts to fix any of these issues. Then Quake World was where they added client side prediction and Half Life was based on that. Doom and Starcraft and other games are all PVP and turn based so they didn't have any of these issues. But the slowest connection slowed everyone else down due to being turn based. Also their simulations could diverge if they weren't properly deterministic. TL;DR: Netcode is one of the hardest engineering problems. Forget 1337code dynamic programming bullshit they ask at google. They should ask how you would program Quake 1's Quake World iteration of multiplayer instead and hire you on the spot if you have a good solution.

I love that he starts with Battlefield footage as an example. So perfect

Learned so much about video games from this guy

bro im addicted to your vids

Some other cases: - Hitbox flaws. In some situations where the opponent's player model is positioned in a certain way, there are parts of the model where there's a hitbox gap. - Multiple no regs in a gunfight. In a hypothetical circumstance where two opponents meet each other at the same time, react at the same time, with the same weapon dealing the same damage, the opponent with the lower ping will be the winner. The losing opponent will not know that they've lost until they receive that information from the server. What the losing player sees is him firing at the opponent long enough for the TTK of the weapon to elapse (perhaps a few shots can hit depending on how much of a difference in ping there is), and then a duration of the losing player's ping after the TTK where they're still firing shots yet none are connecting followed by the update from the server that they've lost.

Quality content!! Keep it up!!

Idk maybe I just suck at aiming

Thanks for the simple explanation bro :D

Love how garbaj gets straight to the point

love these videos

Hello Garbaj, thanks for new Vid😁

There’s also a separate reason for no regs in Apex Legends, where the character model is actually smaller than the hit box making it seem like you hit them but you didn’t. This mostly happens with skins (there was a broken Horizon skin and a few Gibby skins that had this problem), but the one I remember most was the Marble Goddess skin for Wraith in Season 5. Originally because the hit box was larger she would take damage even if enemies didn’t hit her model. Because of that they implemented a hotfix that made the unnecessary part of her hit box larger; the problem with that is while SHE didn’t take any extra damage, if you shot at a teammate slightly behind her the hit box would’ve blocked the shot. Not to mention how it messed up aim assist. But yeah that’s another reason you might get a no reg in shooters.

Informative video, thank you

There are different approaches to this problem. Some games do "server side" registration like you describe. Planetside 2, on the other hand, does "client side" hit registration based on the shooter's view. Wrel did a great video demonstrating this in action, and the surprising gameplay consequences of which way a game decides to go.

i am addicted to your intro

Dang. Quite the upload streak you've got going 😆

Client-prediction Server-reconciliation, there is a lot of documentation (Valve, Gabriel Gambetta, Gaffer On Games), what I have never found explained/shown is how to keep the animations (and hitboxes) in sync after a server rewind in case of mismatch (I'd like to see an example in the worst case scenario), how the state machines of the animations should behave, if and how to correct the physics of interactable objects that had already received a pulse/force.

I once set up my firewall to mark outgoing packets from my LAN IP address to the ports on the internet I knew they belong to the game server (Steam typically uses ports around UDP/27000) and then employed a qdisc with 300-500ms delay on them leaving incoming packets untouched. It was fun to play on-line FPS games...

This legit blew my mind

Turning off the OFF LOADING feature in the pc's network card on UDP protocoll can help with getting less "no regs". The feature offloads the workload from the network cards chip onto the cpu. The bandwith increases but the latency goes up without ever showing on ping, the lagg happens before the ping is measured.. But it feels noticable better turning it off and testing on a good low latency servers. The feature is deep in the network cards settings and I highly recommend players to test it. I've noticed no negatives by doing it. Results are small on a fast multicore cpu but it really helped on my old 4 core. In Pubg people think its server desync but its really often just pc lagg. The steam FPS counter is useless, it showed 120fps and Riva statistic tuner showed the true 0.1% low FPS(when you actually shoot) to be as low as 26FPS! Then I finally retired my old pc. Also going from 100mbit wired to 1000mbit wired shaved off 20ms for me. I can game now with down to 23ms on Pubg servers in EU.

It's really interesting that you chose Battlefield 1 to do this video because it has a very interesting feature in the netcode that I haven't seen outside of this game, although I'm sure other devs have tried it. Basically, after a certain ping threshold is exceeded (~130ms for BF1) you will switch from client-side to server-side hit detection which is exactly as you described. If your ping is too high, you will have to shoot where the enemies actually are on the server and not where they are on their screen. The higher your ping is above this threshold, the more you have to lead your shots. This is to prevent massive peekers advantage with high ping players and makes the game playable but not as enjoyable as playing on closer servers. It could even potentially add another obstacle to the effectiveness of aimbots for high ping out-of-region players but I'm not entirely sure. I think it's a great system that more games should implement as it's a good balance between playability and fairness.

back in 2010-2014, I used to play gta sa-mp which was GTA Sanandreas' wildly popular multiplayer mod completely made by the community. Some servers had lag compensation and some didn't and playing in non lag compensated servers became an art of its own, those servers were labelled with "Lag Shot". Basically, each player's ping would be displayed above their heads and while keeping your ping in mind, you would predict their position and shoot and eventually, based on what ping your opponent would have, your brain would develop muscle memory for how much to lead your shots for a wide array of different pings. Weird times.

Everything is absolutely correct. In addition, there is one way to fix issues with unstable network that is used in Overwatch: net driver (either server or client's proxies) can add an artificial delay to compensate for disordered or lost commands, as if it was a buffer. Moreover, in Overwatch the client sends a bunch of commands at once every upstream event, for example the current input or proxy state and 4 before that in one send. Yes, last 4 will be duplicates, but that's the point. If, for example two commands were lost, the next one will fill those holes, and if it is still within the buffer frame, those lost commands won't do anything at all. It takes a lot for mild packet losses to do anything at all, but the downside is, of course, it adds more lag. Here, net driver is the part of the game responsible for network interactions in both client and server, command is some packed instruction/report of a change, proxy is what shown to the client but is not a perfect representation of the original.

Very good explained!

hey garbaj, keep it up man these daily uploads are really cool! btw are you milk gang?

New day new lesson from profesor baj

little random trivia: when it first came out (and for some years after that) the mod to play gta san andreas online, SAMP, did required you to shoot at where your enemy would be once the data got to your enemy's client. there are even tutorials on how to do this (search on youtube a video called "How to become good in Duels (SAMP)")

i love your content lol

When you ran past that flame trooper kit and died it really hurt

“My stupid shots won’t hit in apex and my science has no answer” love it.

I remember playing games back with it was purely server side. e.g. Quake and Half-Life. So in those games if you saw a running enemy you had to shoot infront of them to account for the ping delay, and if it was a slow firing rocket you'd have to account for that as well. This meant that people with good connections (

Oh...I was always confused when I ducked in a trench as someone was about to snipe me from across the map then PING a headshot. thanks for clearing it up.

spy has taken multiple years of my lifespan, from stress and anger. I will die younger

the positions of players you can see can be dependent more on your own connection (or even framerate in some games) than on serverside maths. depending on whether the hit calculations are done on the client, or serverside, or both. different games have different bandwidth requirements to play smoothly. for example, a level of lossy or subpar connection is acceptable and compensated for on the serverside, but may cause a players position to fluctuate on the clientside, as each game will deal with this networking problem differently. my understanding is that the information is broken into packets, every player in the game is being sent the same information but may either, receive a complete packet but at a different time from another player, or a player may receive an incomplete packet. otherwise, assuming the networking software is not faulty, every player should be receiving the right packet at the right time and the game should not appear to be desynchronizing. it is important to add everyones connection at home has a certain level of stability that is independent of its speed, which is also a part of the problem. basically turn on net_graph 3 in a multiplayer source game for a lot of insights.

Love my daily dose of gaming science :)

something similar to this was I was playing sniper elite 5 a little bit ago and a enemy player was shooting me and doing damage, but he was aiming at where I was about half a second ago

*begins talking about no regs* me: *Ark flashbacks where it happens even in singleplayer ALL THE FCKING TIME*

As a sufferer of bad internet I have learned to deal with the fact that I will be behind a 12’ thick reinforced steel wall and still managed to be hit, it’s not a choice, it’s a lifestyle

After recently looking into how online games are made (the utter basics lmao), yeah, this is kinda what I expected.

In csgo it sometimes was also caused by the hitbox not lining up properly with the actual player model.

Thanks for explaining why I've been killed when I can't even see the enemy who's shooting at me.

this is also it occassionally feels like you've been shot through a wall when you run around corners

For any dead by daylight players, this issue was especially common before servers were made. Back in 2016, the game ran client sided on the killers connection (aka the killer's PC acted as the server). At any time during a chase, the killer can unplug their internet or cause more lag in order to have thr survivor lag and keep the game trying to predict where the survivor would be going (which was basically always just a straight line). This would effectively allow the killer to just walk up to the survivor and smack him for free while on the survivor side, it would appear like you just got downed instantly. Now since the game has actual servers, as soon as the packets are sent, you are teleported to your last known location and any actions you have done are reversed and ignored for both sides. Along with the small delay that just comes with online games by default, that's possibly why as a survivor you got hit waaaay past the window after vaulting or your hatchet throw as huntress just seems to pass right through the survivor.

I like to imagine their just that guy who takes a shot to the head and lives to tell his grandkids

This happens a shit ton in Rocket League. I can see and hear my car hitting the ball, but on the replay, a miss.

Garbaj when your game gonna realease

here's another way no regs can happen: in csgo, shot inaccuracy is calculated client side and server side these will almost always differ and in some cases you can end up with the client side shot hitting (you see the hit) but the server side shot missing (you deal no damage) and I'm not sure if this counts as a no reg but if you shoot and die very shortly after, you might hit the guy client side, but you don't hit server side because your shot never fired there, because you were already dead when the fire action reached the server

idk if you have talked about projectile versus hitscan in FPS games and its benefits and tradeoffs- and clientside and serverside hit registration. also, if you can can you talk about large amount of player games(bf2042 could count i guess, looking at planetside 2 though) and how you think the packet stuff is handled on certain games to reduce lag on these kind of multiplayers, since some games like tf2 suffers from extended playercount server.

Another one to consider (happens a lot in Siege which uses server side validation): if you shot someone in the head right before you died, your shot might get refused because on the server you already died, the other guy shot you (and sent that info to the server) sooner

it feels like a coincidence that you post this video after punch upload on about no reg in apex

There was once a server glitch in halo 5 which confused the server on the enemies location if they paused their game. This made them teleport mid gunfight and the server has a brain fart. Anyways great breakdown garbaj

it happens all the time in Overwatch , its really frustrating

I love noregs of projectile AoE abilities in Overwatch

the only alternative ive seen were fr web browser shooters like Uberstrike. The damage was processed as definite whether the character was there or not, your end hit them, so they will feel it regardless. This gave some unfair advantages with high ping players or bugs where the player models never synced from where they spawned, so the victim would just die every few seconds. I still see this method as an alternative for smaller titles, perhaps.

There have been some bugs for example in CSGO, if I recall correctly it went something like this: Under certain conditions, a player could stand up and rotate the character a bit, but somehow the hiboxes would not rotate to match the character's model. This ended up causing tons of instances where you would shoot an enemy at point blank, seemingly right in the head, and the enemy would not get hit. I believe some people actually discovered how to use it and triggered it to troll people, fun times.

especially in SOME games you will be behind cover for a full second and still get hit

Minecraft actually has a quirk with its projectiles where while they’ll be present on screen while in the air, the damaging aspect of it will disappear and reappear at some ticks long intervals

In PUBG Mobile back then at its first year of release, there was a bug where when you disabled your internet connection, you can shoot enemies. Then when the internet cameback, all hits will be registered and you will kill the enemy. I think this happens because hit regs happens to your client and sends the information of how much damage you made to the server. The solution they made to this was to disable touch screen and put a loading icon on the middle of the screen until the net cameback. But players found out a way that when you got a cellular data with very slow internet, you can play even if the enemies are not moving. And the fluctuating internet will be the chance to send the hitreg to the server. They fixed that already when people started abusing it

Sauerbraten had an interesting solution to this. If you hit another player, then it was always counted. This lead to lots of cases where two players would kill each other due to latencies in processing player actions.

I didn't even know what "no reg" meant until now. But yeah if knew and I would probably guess it's lag

This is why on vangaurd u feel like u get instant killed all the time then u watch the killcam and the guy was shooting at you for a long while, but on your screen it was in a blink of an eye

This might be why sometimes I die unnaturally fast in Contractors or take others out unnaturally fast as well, sometimes.

overwatch from what i remember does the regs on client side than server side at least back when i played it and alot of people complained about that as they would die behind walls and etc

i swear i have getting so many no regs today. makes sense since the wifi was sketchy today

I feel like you've experienced a lot of noregs lately and is why you made this video :P

i think server tickrate also has a huge impact on how big these desyncs can become. games like valorant with a high server tickrate dont often have these issues while games with a super low tickrate like pubg and many other br games can have desyncs up to half a second or so

I figured dark gamer wizards were cursing me

Sometimes because of high ping the bullets you shot get back to magazine sane as movement correction done by the server (which you talked about in an earlier video ). It sucks more

every time you shoot an enemy,The server ''it's rewind time''.

From the old days of playing on dial-up, there were dozens of timing issues that caused gaming anomalies and people were called cheats for little to no reason. It was simply the internets fault as people weren't smart enough to read up on how gaming client/servers worked and the timing issues/anomalies of running on phone lines resulting in pings of 500-999ms, as opposed to fibre optic/coax connections that vastly reduced it and improved things.

Fun fact: You can easily tell when you get a melee no-reg in tf2 because it locally plays a sound when hitting anything, but waits for the server to play a proper hitsound. This also results in very delayed hitsounds when you have high ping.