Ed Kelly interviewed by John Cleese @ Science, Skeptics and the Study of Consciousness

5 років тому

(*Please note: all rights reserved )
John Cleese is a friend and supporter of the research into the nature of consciousness being done at UVA DOPS. Mr. Cleese has a long history of personal interest in this important area of inquiry.
In this video John Cleese is interviewing UVA DOPS research faculty member and author Dr. Edward F. Kelly, about current issues regarding scientific inquiry into the nature of consciousness. They discuss science, skeptics and the study of consciousness.
Dr. Kelly's recent books include "Irreducible Mind" and "Beyond Physicalism" .
You will find descriptions of and links to these important books here: med.virginia.edu/perceptual-s...
The Division of Perceptual Studies (DOPS) is a research unit within the Department of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia Health System. The research faculty of the Division are known internationally for their expertise and research integrity in the investigation of phenomena relevant to the nature of consciousness and its relationship to the physical world.
DOPS was founded at UVA in 1967 by the late Dr. Ian Stevenson as a result of a generous donation from Xerox inventor Chester F. Carlson. Dr. Stevenson passed away in 2007. For 35 years, he served as the Director of the Division and held the Chester F. Carlson Professor of Psychiatry Chair. Upon Dr. Stevenson’s retirement in 2002, Dr. Bruce Greyson, the long-time editor of the Journal of Near-Death Studies, was appointed Director of the Division. Upon Dr. Greyson’s retirement, Dr. Jim Tucker became the director of DOPS in the fall of 2014.

КОМЕНТАРІ: 57

@bridgetcampbell6629 5 років тому

I love this discussion. I'm very much convinced that consciousness is not produced by the brain AND I have great respect for the scientific method. It's enormously important because we don't yet have a better safeguard against superstition, fraud, false assumptions, etc...I'm SO grateful for this kind of dialogue. Many thanks!

@StratMatt777 4 роки тому

Type "Near Death Experience" into the UKposts search bar. Enjoy!

@Hedgewalkers 3 роки тому

Very well stated!

@KillerEggFromOuterSpace 3 роки тому

It's saddening how many people assume that the two cannot coexist (or at the very least build upon each other). Everyone wants to feel like they know what's going on, but thinking so is limiting. If we truly live in a universe of infinite possibilities & discoveries then we don't know everything which I love. Hell, I'm a psychology student, a field that was heavily scrutinized & still is to a certain degree. It had to change it's approach to studying the mind while incorporating updated scientific methods/understandings. We need the scientific method AND the desire to learn with change. This field of study fascinates me and just grows with each passing year. Who knows what it'll turn up by 2022?

@1960taylor 4 роки тому

Hard to believe this is still a debate. So much evidence.

@noahriver5946 3 роки тому

Ikr??

@joaogabriellucas1865 4 роки тому

A million likes for this! People are awakening!

@goldenrainbowwonderland4986 5 років тому

Great to see high profile man John Cleese talking about this. Love the Max Planck quote that science advances one funeral at a time. I feel more positive, though, that changes in scientific views are occurring more rapidly these days ... and not because scientists have short lives.

@malachi- 6 місяців тому

As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. . . . we must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter. ― Max Planck, The New Science [From Lecture, 'Das Wesen der Materie' [The Essence/Nature/Character of Matter], Florence, Italy (1944)]

@mindfulmoments4956 4 роки тому

I totally agree with this. It is so absurd that science tries to explain consciousness by merely correlating mind-states with brain structures. However, I think the means by which this narrow-minded focus can be overcome is by actively and effectively disseminating this information (such as what is presented here in this video). It would be good for ‘DOPS’ individuals to write informative articles in various magazines and newspapers (e.g., in the Guardian, New York Post, etc.) - this is what would gradually bring about a change in the currently existing absurd world-view.

@Jack-yq6ui 3 роки тому

there is no such thing as non-physical, non-physical = non-existant. - Any emergent properties produced by organized patterns of ordinary matter are just that, effects produced by matter. I.e. The music produced by a guitar. No one would argue that the music is hiding within the guitar in some non-physical form, everyone understands that, as the guitar is played, the vibration of the strings moves through the air, arrives at your eardrums, vibrates those, whom in turn generate electrical signals that your brain interprets and delivers to you in the conscious experience of music. - At no point in this chain of cause and effect did any form of energy become non-physical. The brain is like the guitar, and consciousness is the music. - Voila.

@mindfulmoments4956 3 роки тому

@@Jack-yq6ui Don’t forget that science has not understood what consciousness is - it is still being debated. Also, don’t forget that it is our *conscious experiences* that investigate the whole world, guitar strings, eardrums, the brain, and even consciousness itself. Consciousness is everywhere, and therefore these phenomena are possible. All material phenomena are also investigated by consciousness.

@Jack-yq6ui 3 роки тому

@@mindfulmoments4956 irrelevant, also I am not forgetting anything. Science has adressed this issue, as I explained in my original comment which you are either not reading, not comprehending, or ignoring. My point still stands.

@mindfulmoments4956 3 роки тому

@@Jack-yq6ui Although you simply assume that science has solved the problem of consciousness - it hasn’t. All they know about are ‘neural correlates.’ Perhaps you can take a look at the following articles: Hacker, P. (2010). Hacker’s challenge. The Philosophers' Magazine, (51), 23-32. Negro, N. (2020). Phenomenology-first versus third-person approaches in the science of consciousness: the case of the integrated information theory and the unfolding argument. Phenomenology and the Cognitive Sciences, 1-18. Henry, R. C. (2005). The Mental Universe” Nature, 436, 29.

@zakhust6840 3 роки тому

@@Jack-yq6ui >"there is no such thing as non-physical, non-physical = non-existant" >"No one would argue that the music is hiding within the guitar in some non-physical form" Oh boy the self-contradiction is strong with this one.

@notme5744 5 років тому

Awesome.

@offense53 2 роки тому

This is gold!

@JeffPopplewell 4 роки тому

It's interesting that John Cleese mentions Galileo, the "Father of Science." Galileo is responsible for the paradigm of Science which has been followed for over 500 years. The gist of Galileo's model is that the laws of Nature should be explored with the language of mathematics. In essence, everything must be subject to quantification, or it is incapable of being explained. This would include subjective, unquantifiable topics such as consciousness, spirituality, psychic phenomena, or the qualia of given experiences. These things are subjective and qualitative. Science likes to explain away those things that can't be measured or are subject to the irrational.

@KillerEggFromOuterSpace 3 роки тому

At one point Psychology would fall into a subjective category and many still do. No one can quantify the mind. The mind is more than neurotransmitters firing off. We can quantify the amount of certain chemicals in the body, but it's through study & accounts thst we understand underlying reasons for mental health. Those lacking serotonin may be predisposed to depression, but the experiences of life can do exactly the same. This means the mind influences the brain. You can't quantify trauma that leads to depression. Trauma is subjective to the individual. What traumatizes you may not traumatize me....psychology is very much a subjective field of study and yet it's still accepted as a legitimate/necessary one. I know it's easy to go "Well duh" but just think about a time before we even had a word for psychology and how people would react to that field for the first time. The work of NDEs & OBEs...may one day meet the safe fate as Psychology...and it some ways it already has.

@SucceedbyForce 3 роки тому

Hold the Sunset just recently became one of my favorite shows on WETA Uk here in America!

@luisfbjunqueira5837 2 роки тому

Wonderful conversation!

@mortalclown3812 Рік тому

Just not long enough.

@lisathomas1622 3 роки тому

I personally have had very bizarre personal experiences which I either believe make me crazy or I am experiencing normal human experience phenomena. I choose the latter. I am very thankful for your interest in this subject. I think I will meditate more and stop being afraid of these weird experiences in awareness, out of body, or something talking to me via pictures and physical sensations. It tells me there is no purpose but to be happy or not. My choices are infinite, but if I allow this great being which we are all connected to guide me my experience improves a great deal.

@beccaninglights Рік тому

The part where you two are talking about people who are so determined not only that things don't exist, but to shut it down and hide the evidence of it - I'm not quite done with Bruce's (Dr. Greyson's?) book, but there was a part I was listening to about one woman having OBE's and not wanting them to happen, or to try and cover it up. How could you not be curious? How could you not want to learn and explore and want to know? And then to try and cover it up? No two ways about that, that's evil. That's keeping yourself and the world in the dark. I could scream. I think if I found a doctor hiding evidence of stuff like this, I'd end up kicking them out a window of their place and making them a patient at their own hospital. I could scream into a pillow again. Such stupid innocence! Ugh, breathe. Breathe. Love watching and listening to these in the dark hours of the AM, you guise are helping be hold on. I don't understand why people choose ignorance...

@rd264 9 місяців тому

difficult to actually research these matters. I used to meditate and have had some meditative experiences without practicing meditation. Evidence is lacking! Its very hard to even begin to describe or expostulate about these things. A good discussion of this in the christian area is The Cloud of Unknowing, a 14 th c work by a monk.

@UHFStation1 2 роки тому

Can you give examples of this hostility towards paranormal from mainstream scientists? As far as I can tell mainstream scientists rely on physically testable things and not anecdotal evidence. Can paranormal research use more physical evidence?

@tenaciousspectre3383 10 місяців тому

Tom Campbell he's a Nasa Physicist who studied out of body experience and Astral projections with Bob Monroe at the Monroe Institute. They would Astral travel together and Spot red Objects up above. Than when I Watch Research from Dr Peter Fenwick the Nuero Phychiatrist he says the Same thing when his Patients who go out of body spot red objects.

@Rozq 4 роки тому

Great discussion. Our soul is eternal.

@jaybenjamin5649 3 роки тому

Why would you want to live for ever it would be horrible imagine reality never ending how horrible would that be?

@zakhust6840 3 роки тому

@@jaybenjamin5649 I mean, it really depends on your perspective about it, wether you like it or not, you know, not something that could really be argued.

@Chrysaetos11 Рік тому

@@jaybenjamin5649 ''you want to live for ever'' assumes this ''you'' remains the same, as its experience and perception. Two things: 1, you may continue to change and have entirely different experiences, identities and discoveries, 2. your perception of time might be totally different if not on earth.

@lisathomas1622 3 роки тому

Mr Cleese, you and I argued on Twitter about Trump, and I was angry with you for awhile but I wish to apologize for being so afraid I argued with you. I am not a Trump supporter, I argued for you to stop scaring me... you too were mad, but I have no right to tell you to be quiet, I do have the right not to read what you write. I guess I was lead here maybe to let that go. This talk showed me we have a lot more in common than I knew. Wow! Cool! Best wishes to you.

@bradsmith9189 2 місяці тому

He’s right on with the brain as a transceiver analogy. The brain serves as a receiver/body control interlink to allow the mind (non local) to function here on earth.

@Mu-zw5bm 3 роки тому

One of the reason why scientists don't want to deal with consciousness study is they don't want to be associated with some nutcases who's attracted to it like some comments you can see here.

@ismailjames3781 2 роки тому

I’m inclined to agree. However the new age movement only jumped on Ian Stevenson’s work after a great deal of it was published, I’m still a little skeptical myself but there’s no reason not to read something that may not be true but does make for very interesting literature at the very least

@DRNelson-ll3ov 2 місяці тому

The old joke: All science needs is the first miracle and it can explain the rest.

@nayanmipun6784 2 роки тому

Hopefully psychology neurology is acknowledging non localities of conscious, leftism has a lot to do with superficially influencing the science community for the worse

@Jack-yq6ui 3 роки тому

There is no such thing as non-physical, non-physical = non-existant. - Any emergent properties produced by organized patterns of ordinary matter are just that, effects produced by matter. I.e. The music produced by a guitar. No one would argue that the music is hiding within the guitar in some non-physical form, everyone understands that, as the guitar is played, the vibration of the strings moves through the air, arrives at your eardrums, vibrates those, whom in turn generate electrical signals that your brain interprets and delivers to you in the conscious experience of music. - At no point in this chain of cause and effect did any form of energy become non-physical. The brain is like the guitar, and consciousness is the music. - Voila.

@notme5744 3 роки тому

OK, but who's playing the guitar?

@Jack-yq6ui 3 роки тому

@@notme5744 The analogy does not change if you replace the guitar with a different metaphorical device. If we change Guitar to Ocean, and Music to Waves we get the same analogy. I merely picked guitar because it's, or so I thought: much easier to understand. Guess not.