LEAF owner here. It's nonsense to suggest that when you get home from work in your LEAF you should not plug in in to charge. Anything up to an hour's driving does not make the battery excessively hot, and the 7kW charger installed at home does not create enough heat to be a problem either. If you really want to delay charging, the LEAF has a timer so you can start charging at midnight, for example, and have the car fully charged by the time you start in the morning (and maybe benefit from cheaper electricity too, on some tariffs). The real problem is longer road trips requiring rapid charging several times. Then the battery does get hot. In my experience the battery temperature rises most rapidly during rapid charging, and more slowly while driving. On the older series 1 30kWh LEAF it can overheat badly; my 40kWh LEAF 2.0 throttles charging rate to mitigate the problem but that mean longer waits. It's not a car for frequent road trips in a hurry, but it's absolutely fine for doing up to 120 miles per day.

i bought a used 2014 we set charging to stop at 80% we charge it every 2 days. No degradation so far.

I replaced the battery in my 2012 Leaf 2 years ago. I went to 3 dealerships to get a price. 1 said they would not do it. The 2nd said $9,600. The 3rd said $7,600 but later said $9,200. I negotiated the price to $8,200 and it runs great. And yes, all three wanted me to buy a new car instead. The car is wonderful. But Nissan sucks.

Use mine about 80 miles a day and I plug in at about 40-50% every day. Have 20k on mine and still has zero degradation.

I’ve been aware of this for years. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I’d say they did it to make sure someone only buys a battery electric ONCE. . . as you said, after I wrote that. . .

We've owned a Leaf for 7 years, 40k miles with no problems. Battery still has full capacity. At 2:10 you say "Not convenient" BUT the leaf has a built-in timer. SO we get home, plug in, and it waits until midnight before the charge starts on cheap rate leccy. Obviously it cools in the hours before charging starts.

Nissan owner here I Finland. Because of cold weather, we don't feel any heating issues. In winter, it drops mileage, but it is perfect in summer. I have driven 150,000 km in 18 months. Approximately 6K a month and around 200km a day. I charge multiple times a day with fast charger. I bought it for 22K euros in 2022 and it is 2018 model with 40kw battery pack. I have saved almost 20K fuel price which is equal to its purchasing price. It is an excellent deal if you drive more than 100 km a day. My battery is still perfect, and soon I am going to touch 200K km.

Use the vehicle built in timer to charge after midnight. I do this and I also get incentive payments from my utility company to charge during off peak times.

I would argue that the 62kwh doesn’t use as many charge cycles which should extend the battery. It’s a commuter car 50-75miles a day. It’s not a road tripper but can be in a pinch.

I agree with you that the design of the Nissan leaf battery pack without proper thermal management is deliberate - to fleece the owners down the road when the battery pack dies prematurely from poor thermal management. Now you are forced to pay for a new battery or buy another car. This is the type of behavior that could put Nissan out of business.

2011 Leaf owner here. Even though I leave the car at 80% charge and only charge up to 100% on some weekends, the battery still ended up with 60% range by 2018. Luckily, Nissan was still offering battery replacement at the time, and after a few long and lengthy calls with Nissan, I was given a discount to replace the battery for half the cost. Can't imagine having to pay $5k after 7 years. Since then the Leaf is our second car that gets driven once every few weeks. I can understand how the first generation Nissan Leaf only has air cooling, but the later generation of Leaf not having liquid cooling is very suspicious, as they would had received numerous complaints about their battery degradation issues by then.

yup. I had two leafs but the second one degraded faster that the first one... for us we moved onto teslas. best most American car one can buy and the battery lasts forever... really. forever. I expect Nissan will go bankrupt in the next 15 years. Dealerships model is dieing.

Planned obsolescence only makes a company obsolete in a competitive environment.

As a former Leaf owner, this is 100% spot on. We bought the car used and it ran great while I owned it (no maintenance other than replacing the wipers and rotating the tires), but the battery degradation eventually made the range anxiety too much when driving the car, particularly in winter. The cost of replacing the battery would have been more than we paid for the car, so we sold it. This doesn't seem to affect other EVs to this extent, but after our experience with the Leaf the only EV my wife will consider buying is a Tesla, which works for me :)

Awesome video man, please remember me when you have 100k subscribers. I found you since the beginning. I love your content.

since nissan refuse to replace batteries how is this profit centre?

few things that don't make sense Nissan is using a NMC chemistry now not LMO which is more resistant to temperatures also you can schedule charging so you can plug it in and it will charge when needed. There is no need to physically wait for it to cool down to plug in as you can set up charging off-peak

ten years ago nissan dealer was quoting me $180 usd for replacing a cabin filter in my 2011 Leaf, i wonder how much they would charge me to change my oil.

Have a 2019 leaf and its battery lost 18% capacity within 1 year and driving less than 10k miles. Discussed with Nissan and they claim the battery is still good. How is that possible that they can get away with faulty batteries? Need help.

I wonder if the Nissan Aryia will have a flawed thermal management system

Just LEAF it alone 🌿

New LEAF owner here. We purchased a 2017 LEAF off lease out of coastal CA , 30kw, 12 bars in April, 2020. After the state EV vehicle rebate our net cost was ~$9500. After nine months and 3500 miles I'd rate this as the best used car we have ever purchased. For in-town commutes it is the perfect vehicle. Sure, better battery management would be nice but not essential as long as you take reasonable care. Don't use fast chargers too often (or ever) & don't charge a hot battery. This vehicle is designed for shortish commutes not long distance trips (and the cost reflects this). When purchasing a used vehicle try to get one off lease from a relatively cool area of the country such as a coastal climate. I don't know about the newer LEAFs but I would not hesitate recommending a 2016-2017 30kw used LEAF even to a family member.

I drive a 10 year old Civic that has not cost me anything beyond routine maintenance,but for the environment,I am looking at an EV. Thinking of getting a Bolt.

Overheating during charging could be mitigated by Nissan allowing the owner to throttle the charging speed manually You shouldn't charge a battery at more than 0.7C, MAYBE 1C if the battery is cool In the case of the 24kwh battery, charging it at 50kw is suicide, and you shouldn't have to drive across town to find a 20kw DC fast charger so you dont wreck the battery

I own a 2012 Leaf that I bought used. This video is accurate. I never recommend a Leaf as a new car purchase. As a used car they're fine because they're cheap so long as the person buying it knows what too expect. I have over 25% battery degradation right now. My replacement for the Leaf will not be another Nissan.

First off: great video. Lots of useful info. Secondly: Nissan is a great example of what happens at a company that refuses to innovate.

Have you looked at Nissan’s overall condition? That explains a lot.

Not having thermal managment should be illegal. Its disturbing to know that so many low mile leaf's are going to be in the junk yard, because it not worth the price to replace the battery.

Wow, that covered a lot of ground. I have a 2011 Leaf, sub 10,000 production SV. Purchase used with 20,000 miles for $14K. Being aware of the 1st Gen battery issues (bad chemistry) and two bars lost, I purchased a Gen 2 battery 01/2017. $5,500 shipping tax labor other needed items. The Leaf was engineered as a city EV. Rarely fast charge, sonar power at home, from 0 miles to 50 miles runs, it’s suitable. Very short highway runs 20 miles or less at 60 mph. 5.5 years, one segment lost, at 80% charge 55 to 60 miles practical range and with free/low cost L2 chargers now available such as a zoo, restaurante, Parks, the car is 100% functional at 10 years of age. Two electronic cooling system fans replaced have been the only repair required. No emissions, free electrons, very low rate of degradation, no need to charge 100%, no need to fast charge, no need to have a $50,000 Tesla for my transportation needs. Long distance? OK. A 2018 used Hyundai Ioniq PHEV acquired 10 months ago, replaced an aging hybrid SUV, for $20K Limited trim, goes 30-33 miles EV then uses 1 gallon per hour! Very cheap to operate even compared to an EV, and as per wife, no need to wait to charge. Sorry about your experiences with Nissan USA/dealership. Thanks for the report.

I have no idea if that is what they are doing but it would make sense... I do love the market on used leafs though... It makes a great commuter/in town/secondary car... So much so that the original reason I got it(to save up for an electric truck) seems in crazy when the leaf is so cheap to operate and own... At least till the battery completely goes caput.

Fan? Not so sure. I believe pack is passively cooled only. Have any pics of fan?

The Leaf was among the first to market with a great car. The battery degradation is a development issue fudged by active cooling which helps increase the life. But it still degrades. For now we put up with it as it still works well enough. The new battery technology coming along will give a big improvement. But will take some years to get to market in the meantime enjoy what we have its not so bad really.

I saw a video with a non leaf battery in the pack.

They are not degrading by 10% a year check your facts, brought one that's over 8yrs old, it still has 11 bars out of 12, battery's have never been changed.

Great theory. Give it time and we will see 3rd party battery manufacturers and reconditioned; possibly someone will come out with an aftermarket cooling system.

My leaf only goes 25 miles on a charge, there's a guy in Oregon who will replace the batteries and upgrade to a bigger battery from wrecked nissans

Not only is the new Nissan battery guarantee awful (66% for just 100,000 miles) but I would have serious concerns whether Nissan will still be around in a few years to honour that guarantee.

We are so so tired of built in obsolescence. The company that totally goes against this trend will have a great marketing advantage.

The car has an onboard charging timer, controls the start and stop. I plug in when I get home from work, every 3rd day or so, I have it set to charge 12 am to 6 am as my utility gives me $0.09/kWh at that super off peak time. Love my leaf, 30k miles so far no issues

Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤

This is one of the reasons why I like the NIO BaaS system. NIO also put in vast amounts of money to keep the aftermarket attractive by buying back the cars and therefore maintain the high-quality level of the cars overall. Changing your battery within 5 minutes at literally no cost other than the battery is brilliant. Plus, you can up- or downgrade your capacity depending on your use case for your vehicle.

That is the reason sadly i will not buy another ev from any manufacturer because after 10 years who knows if the parts will be available.

These practices will blow in Nissans faces and they will lose customers, you stand behind your product or be ready to see people voting with their wallets ! Great content , spread the word.

My 2011 Leaf's battery went below spec at 40k miles, was replaced under warranty, then again at 80k, same problem. For a first-gen mass-market EV, it was good and I loved driving it. But I bought two Teslas and there's no going back now. But if you've got a really short commute, I wouldn't dissuade anyone from buying a cheap used Leaf.

I have a 2012 leaf and have checked into the 3rd party thing.

I guess the biggest problem with the battery replacement is the dealership.

My 2018 leaf has done 141K at the moment, when it reached around 110K I saw mega issues arise, I’ve spent £5,500 replacing battery modules and while the there are less fault lights my 150 mile range is 60 at best… this video was great, 100% accurate of my experience with a leaf. I won’t be buying another leaf… Tesla it is !!

Are you *sure* that LEAFs have air-cooled batteries? I've owned and driven LEAFs from 2011 through this summer (a 2011, a 2012, a 2016 and a 2018), and it's my impression that there is NO cooling *whatsoever* . Heat escapes from the cells by conduction through the battery pack case. I remember driving from Portland to Bellingham one winter where the ambient temperature was around freezing, and I watched, enraged, as the battery temperature gauge rose to just below the "red zone" with successive DC quick charges. I still can't feature how, with upwards of 60 degrees F of temperature differential pushing it, the battery heat still couldn't escape.

Having owned all versions of the Leaf, I have not encountered any of these issues. Yes a TMS would be nice 1% of the time. Nissan owns it's battery plant and therefore are not forced to use a TMS due to warranty issues. All the major battery manufacturers make it mandatory to use liguid cooling for warranty issues. In 2014, Nissan introduced the "lizard" battery that has an improved chemistry and better battery longevity. The 30 kWh Leaf had a faulty LBC that under reported the true capacity. This is well known and I'm surprised you left this important information out of your video. insideevs.com/news/326332/nissan-leaf-taxi-hits-100000-miles-still-has-all-battery-bars/

I think that’s exactly what they’re doing. We have a 2018 it’s been given us all kinds of problems related to the battery stating we need to service the EV system. The car shut down multiple times on us it does have about 75,000 miles on itand the day I dropped it off at service they had a salesman. Call me trying to sell me a new car. I wondered why he decided to call me and after watching this video now I realize it was because of the battery degradation and how they are dealing with it.

This hasn’t been my experience here in Europe.

I don't think any legacy carmaker wants any used electric cars on the road. I became really infatuated with the iMiEV after I learned that it started at 24k

The other reason nissan is changing so much for the batteries is the DIY power system and car builders want the packs for there own use.

All very true Sam. I'm in New Zealand and all our Leafs up to 2019 came second hand from Japan. We already have several successful small local battery service people and we can get a reconditioned 24kw battery for about 6k ; that's about 4.5k US. One local shop has developed some cheap converters that allow a straight swap of 30kw into a 24kw frame. Check out EV's Enhanced on UKposts.

I notice the placement of those vents . . . if the battery ever goes critical, its right under the driver! AKA me FFS! . . . I've also been wondering about the HV cable placement in EVs . . . they can't be inside the cab; in the case of a water crash all the occupants would fry!

I've been a LEAF driver for 6 years and have no battery degradation - I live in the PNW, and don't drive on the highway much

Old Car Company With Their Old Value, Screw The Consumers.

Maybe do a piece on the Hyundai electric cars. They barely get any coverage.

I had a 2011 Nissan Leaf I bought used and it got down to 40 miles of usable range. I was not happy. But I also realized that I had bought a car that had been leased by someone who lived in a very hot part of Southern California and who apparently did most of their charging with DC fast charging, not plugging it in at home. I am purchasing a 2018 Nissan leaf, and yes it still does not have active thermal management, but the battery chemistry has been reformulated three times since 2011, and the software that caused “rapid gate” has been upgraded. Most of my driving and charging will be done with my level two charger at home. I would also point out that in colder places, northern latitudes in Europe, North America, and Asia, there are 10 year old Nissan Leafs that have experienced virtually no battery degradation at all. Since the car is designed in Japan, perhaps the engineers just don’t get it about the way the rest of the world drives, or how hot it is in the rest of the world. The new Nissan Arica will have an active thermal management system in its battery. There are a lot of variables with this issue, so to posture it is this absolute flaw that will affect every leaf and every leaf owner is a bit of an exaggeration. I would refer all of you to transport evolved show on their own Nissan leaf in Portland Oregon, and it’s 10 years of service with no battery degradation.

There’s a reason why used Leaf battery cells are usually 60-70 capacity and easy to extract…No liquid cooling. Tesla’s have a heat pump system that is years ahead of the competition.

Been driving Leafs from 2014, your video is very accurate. Next problem with the battery is that if you have a cell short-circut, then Nissan will fight you as owner and claim that a short-circut is not degradation and therefore. Not covered by warranty. I tried fighting Nissan for years to no prevail. Secondly a cell short-circut in the battery pack, will brick the car. In more modern battery packs, from other manufactured a cell short-circut will just cause the pack to isolate the shorted cell. Nissan quoted me USD 6000,- to change 1 cell in my leafs pack. This is a major design flaw, and Nissan don't care. Crooks!!!

Even though the LEAF cannot do extremely long road trips, think about the utility it does offer. With its 200 mile range for the LEAF Plus, charging every night. If you never used public charging and drove just as far as you could based on your home charging range, you could drive 73,000 miles/year. That's 200 miles times 365 charging each night. Most people do 12-15k miles, so about a fifth of that number. The LEAF can still do loooooooads of miles for people at a quite affordable price point when you get one on sale, which is happening right now worldwide.

I think Nissan just doesnt wanna spend any extra money on R&D for liquid cooling and then more money to install the cooling system per car.

Buy a couple year old used leaf for super cheap if you really want that, or an Ariya or something else with battery cooling.

Would I buy a new leaf , nope. That’s why I bought dirt cheap one with over 85% range it’s perfect as a city car, I repeat city car. Buy a Tesla um no, why ? Well id be spending 5 times the price, even if my leaf loses half its range it’s fine for 95% of my driving. Work out your needs and double it, u got a car for another 5 years that smashes even the cheapest runabouts. Long journeys, I use our second car. I wouldn’t own a leaf as my main car :). Oh and stay away from the 2011 to 2013, those had the sensitive chemistry you speak of, later ones do much much better. I’ll buy a model Y when everyone’s hyped about some new Tesla in 5 years.

Leaf and Tesla now (2018+) share a near identical battery warranty. 8 years, 70% capacity, and 100k miles. Similar to the 30kWh Leafs, the 90kWh Teslas are seeing above normal degradation.

Good info! I was just about to buy a 2020 leaf SL plus, now maybe not :o)

As the owner of a first generation Leaf I think this video is spot on. Nissan is still selling Leaf's with no active cooling system in their 2021 model Leaf's and aren't supporting owners of the older models. If someone decides to do a class action lawsuit against Nissan forcing the to buy back older model Leaf's at original purchase price, I'm in. I just don't see that happening. So, I'm stuck with a Leaf with 50 miles range. The only solution i see if eventually buying a solid state battery for the car, one that won't require a thermal management system and will give my 2011 Leaf a range around 300 miles. Given Nissans handling of this whole battery system i would advice everyone to steer clear of any Nissan product, electric and ICE.

I want my frog-face leaf so bad! I love it. But this battery situation is making my second choice, the kia soul ev, look like a better option.

Tesla is so proactive about battery protection that they use climate control to maintain battery temps as needed, even when parked, which can lead to some pretty big losses just storing the vehicle. Wonder if Tesla's new batteries, particularly LFP, might reduce cooling needs and those vampire drains.

Just wrong, in fact and conclusion, on so many fronts I'm not even going to bother explaining.

Until I can afford a proper Tesla I’ll just keep driving my GTI 6 speed thanks.

Its a 3 phase technology in a car anyone young looking for a great career opportunity its a brilliant market to repair the fuel pack and replacing compromised cells. If only I was young again.....

Same thing with microwaves, electronic tooth brushes. Today buying new is cheaper than calling the repair man, which is cheaper than buying the parts yourself! Crazy

LEAF owner here. It’s not “cheap af.” It’s actually very expensive for what you get. Unfortunately I live in a RHD country and we get every Tesla two years late and with a 30% markup. Sucks a lot.

I have a 2018 Tesla Model 3, and using Scan My Tesla that has 7.33% degradation... And only 55,000kms. My mom's 2012 Leaf has about 16% degradation after 8 years. My other 2017 Volt has 99.7% of it's original capacity. So Tesla's do degrade and not immune to significant degradation due to Super Charging. But I agree that Nissan's support has been dreadful at best. No question on that.

I was literally just telling my girlfriend how terrible the Nissan Leaf was the other day nice video I'll be sure to show this to her we were looking at getting a Tesla and she asked about a Nissan Leaf

EV manufacturers: Drive an EV help save the planet. Us: I need a new battery please. Also EV manufacturers: Yeah you should buy a new car. Us: Isn't that kind of wasteful?

The chevy bolt is the only option for most of the u.s for an afforable used ev that isn't a piece of junk

BUT THE NV200 HAS AN AIR CON COOLED BATTERY PACK !???!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!

Because it has no liquid cooling, you can't fast-charge the battery without causing damage to the battery. So that car is pretty much limited to the slow 240V home-charging that most people will be giving it, and the Leaf is not a car you want to use on long road trips where you have to charge it while you are on a trip. Also: DO NOT top-up charge the battery as that will kill the battery quickly. Only charge it after it drops down to below half-full.

Sometimes buyng the more expensive product(tesla) ends up being the cheepest option

Nissan is Japan originated brand and they designed the car having in mind Japan car market. There old cars have to go through strict inspections so car owner who can afford a car is forced to have new instead of keeping old running. So battery degradation over 3 year for the Japan car market was not a problem so it wasn't addressed. So this explanation in UKposts, you can try searching for something similar too

How is this news in 2020 ? This has been known for years, click bait at its finest if you ask me.

One aspect, don't 75% of Leaf "buyers" actually lease? So the customer gets to turn the car back in when the lease is over and the lender is the one who takes a huge loss and have to sell a reduced capacity vehicle...

Just read this story the other day in the CBC. Nissan won't replace the battery. Pretty awful. They suggest he buy a new car. I wouldn't touch this car with a 10 foot charging cable. And putting this story front and center in the CBC brings down the public's opinion of electric cars.

When a used vehicle with battery is so much cheaper than simply getting a refurbished battery installed (and recycling your old battery to be refurbished which should save on the cost overall just like a trade in car) that's price gouging. It's deliberately setting up a failure point to ensure product viability ends so the customer must rely on new product. Where this isn't necessarily illegal, doing it maliciously is snake oil salesman tactics and needs to be addressed.

More like entirely OVER addressed. Although good point, maybe the pre-planned obsolescence answer to a car that could go on forever.

the teslas coolant doesn't even go through the battery, it goes through the BMS and the motor. LOL. if only EV teszealots would be able to read a diagram, they could see that the batteries are just as passively cooled as the Leaf. and the leaf also has coolant going to the motor as all motors require.

Any 2:44 you're comparing degradation over time and on the Tesla's case over milage. It would have been better to keep the comparison homogeneous. I can make 150000 mi in a year, most people maybe over 4. It's not a adecuate example but from my experience with the Prius, battery degradation keeps going even if the car is never used, that's why Prius batteries are said to last around 10 years disregatding milage. There's a counter argument to be said: in Europe, I don't know about the us, you can buy the Leaf for significantly less and rent the battery, this way, for the duration of the rent, it's covered by all degradation and malfunctions, and it's not that expensive either. Anyway, I was in the market exactly for a Leaf, thank you, I will considerate only cars with proper battery cooling.

It's definitely intentional. In California, 2011-2013 leafs with less than 40,000 miles can often have less than HALF the battery capacity. My 2012 has only 35 miles (4 bars out of 13) range left after only 42,000 miles. Nissan is too smart to NOT KNOW that what they are doing is bad for customers! The cost of a liquid cooling system is only about $50 more per car, far less when amortized over THOUSANDS of cars. Yet they won't put in liquid cooling? They aren't stupid, they know they have to LOOK like they are promoting EVs while simultaneously making EV's look like garbage and supporting their dealer networks!

Nissan Leaf owner here. If I got 50% of the original miles I would be VERY happy. Presently (No joke) I get 30 miles per charge and have 50,000 miles on the car. Nissan LIED top to bottom. Cost to replace the battery? $9999.99 (but not $10,000...). Nissan claims that the 30 miles per charge that I get at 50,000 miles is equal to the 70-80% they CLAIM I would get at 100,000 miles. Ohh by the way, you do not get a NEW battery for the $10,000. You get a USED "RECONDITIONED Battery. We were trying to decide which was the worst car ever produced: The Leaf or the Yugo. We decided the Leaf as the Yugo got about 80,000 miles before you junked it, and this will not get 60,000. As for the making outrageous amount on small servicing I was charge TWICE the high amount for the first servicing (adjustments only) even though I provided a coupon from Nissan for a "Free First Servicing". I will never buy a car from them again. If you think I am kidding feel free to provide a way to get in touch with you, and I will, and verify everything. This car is a RIPOFF as you have to divide the price by the miles you get to find out how much it costs to drive per mile. It is also NOT environmental, as Electric cars are worst for the Environment until they hit 60,000 miles, and this one will be junked before then. I am looking at Chevy Bolts (with active battery cooling) already. FYI I live on the coast, usually charged 110V and occasionally charged 220 (once a month).

Stopped listening 4 minutes in. This was old news even at the time of recording. Nissan fixed the problem back in 2019 while still using passive cooling. I've had my (62 kWh) Leaf now for almost 5 years and my battery is still functioning at 100%.

Carlos Ghosn where are you?

It sounds like "killing the cow that feeds you"! Looks desperate to me!

You only get EV credits for new vehicles, ergo they only care about selling new vehicles

Great video! Even better jokes

I really hope the 2022 Nissan Ariya has a better system all around.

Carlos Ghosn would have fired those engineers. Nissan is so corrupt!

i've owned 2 nissans- both gas burners. two was 2 too many. fenix power in raleigh, nc (yes, that raleigh, the state capital) is working on a liquid cooled battery with 18650 cells- it's a sad commentary when a bunch of techno geek grads from NC state can build a better battery than a major legacy auto maker. a guy on youtube made the comment once that "there's a reason they call it legacy auto"... yup. in the dictionary under legacy... does it say 'synonym- sucks'? i'm guessing that must be what it means?